255 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

[NvVanity]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Why not promote him to lead producer for EA-Kids Software? Kids should learn about that awesome button. I think thats the best way. He will earn money and doesnt have fans who hates him.

Kids can be quite rough. They are not to be taken lightly.

[MrTijger]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Welcome back glad to see you add something that was adding to not attacking the... Do'h spoke to soon. I'm not asking him to be fired that is beyond dumb I merely made a statement of my opinion. Nice to see you love me so much you follow me around attacking my views at every turn though. Nice to have company.

Did I leave?

And no, I dont care one iota about you, I do believe you're spouting a lot of BS in several places and I'll happy attack that but you're nothing special unless you have several clones here, I reply to various people.

[Johnsen1972]

NvVanity wrote...


Kids can be quite rough. They are not to be taken lightly.

Die hard DAO-Fans are not rough?

[MrTijger]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

Look who's talking....

Anyway, he said remove him and guess what? Thats still a judgement neither he nor you is able to make based on the data you have available to you. But, unfortunately, you seem to be arrogant enough to think you can.

[NvVanity]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

If I recall there was a petition thread for firing him.

[MrTijger]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

NvVanity wrote...


Kids can be quite rough. They are not to be taken lightly.

Die hard DAO-Fans are not rough?

No, no, they merely want you removed..kids on the other hand...oh wait...uh...right.

[Dragoonlordz]

Byth wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
If the people that love DA2, love him that much and the direction he has taken DA series towards then surely they wouldn't mind he takes over the ME3 project. Or is it they just love him when in charge of DA series and not their favorite ME. 

Mass Effect and Dragon Age are two different series and Mass Effect already has a lead,. Also for the "Button=Awesome" thing, blame the marketing department. Also, DA2 and ME play almost nothing alike(unless adding a dialog tree suddenly makes a game a shooter/RPG hybrid) so laidlaw wouldn't be much use on that series.

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

Didn't say fire him in fact said the opposite, there is no 'in a nutshell' please don't put words in my mouth.

As I have previously stated I don't blame him for everything wrong with DA2 I said I don't like the direction he took it and don't find it insulting really to wonder if DA3 would be better if we had a different lead.

Dragoonlordz said...

I should say though John Epler did a very nice job on his part of the project, the cinematics but unfortuantly being just a cog in the wheel of the total project there is an element of even if your 'cog' is perfection. If all the other 'cogs' are broken the wheel isn't going anywhere. (Excluding the times when if do a companion quest and forget to put the companion in you get cinematics with a ghost in (or not as it were) talking out of thin air like Fenris one -which cannot complete if start without him to the detriment of finding out after happened on mine). Also the ending cinematic was very low quality which is generally agreed by most.

Luke Barrett and Stanley Woo I'm not so fond of right now because of the amount of bugs/glitches that are in the game and while I can't say one way or the other if they missed them all or if they got them but was ignored and not fixed, it does leave a bitter feeling towards their part of the work.

I can't really say much about 'evil' Chris Priestly because as far as I know he's marketing (Community Coordinator) and I don't know if did anything in the game itself. He is good at responding to people on here so in that regard he does a good job. But as said before even if the part you play in the overall project is done to perfection if the others slack off or don't put in the effort then the -overall project- will be downgraded for both enjoyment and quality which is the case for me with DA2 with reasons given in opinion first post above.

http://social.biowar...5/index/6880054

The difference here is the lead is the one who spins the wheel, and the direction it spins. In an anology I don't like the direction not the individual cogs that allow him to spin it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[NvVanity]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

NvVanity wrote...


Kids can be quite rough. They are not to be taken lightly.

Die hard DAO-Fans are not rough?

Not nearly as dangerous as kids. They are quite a menace.

(jokingly of course)

[Merci357]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

NvVanity wrote...


Kids can be quite rough. They are not to be taken lightly.

Die hard DAO-Fans are not rough?

To choose between handling kids or Die hard DAO fans? As much as kids - especialy in numbers - make me uncomfortable, I'd take the kids.

[Dragoonlordz]

NvVanity wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

If I recall there was a petition thread for firing him.

Except I never took part in that thread and found it silly which is why I pointed out right at start merely switching him to a different project and I don't want firing issue brought up. Yet the fanatics already jump on me claiming I said something I did not...

[NvVanity]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

NvVanity wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

If I recall there was a petition thread for firing him.

Except I never took part in that thread and found it silly which is why I pointed out right at start merely switching him to a different project and I don't want firing issue brought up. Yet the fanatics already jump on me claiming I said something I did not...

Fanatics are funny though. You got to admit they're comedic gold around here.

[Johnsen1972]

MrTijger wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...
He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

Look who's talking....

Anyway, he said remove him and guess what? Thats still a judgement neither he nor you is able to make based on the data you have available to you. But, unfortunately, you seem to be arrogant enough to think you can.

No need to fire him, there are lots of things a guy with his convincing sales abilities can do. He has loads of strong abilities but designing RPG games isnt one of them.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 03 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

MrTijger wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

NvVanity wrote...

Hmm another thread where we blame problems of a game we don't like on one man.

Mike Laidlaw kills puppies. He shouldn't be in charge I say!

You do realize that Laidlaw is the reason these changes were made? I'm sure you also realize that he literally slapped his old fanbase, the fanbase that put him where he is today through their support over the years, when he said that DA2's negative reviews were because we can't handle change, and that we wanted Origins 2.0? The same guy who won't even acknowledge the shortcomings of the game, and the simplification ofthe RPG elements. I think you need to do a little more research on the guy you're so aggressively defending.

-Polite

Well, clearly, we've done our research a lot better than you. Knowles refused the job of Lead Designer because of the change in course for DA 2...BEFORE Laidlaw was in charge, hence the change was in before Laidlaw came onboard.

The fanbase didnt put him anywhere, the people who run Bioware did and I suspect they're a hell of a lot better at judging his talents than you will ever be.

We? I only see one of you. :huh:I already know the reasons Brent Knowles left. Explaining this is completely irrelevant. Laidlaw made the major decisions for the changes. The only thing that got Knowles to leave was their discussion of DA2 an trying to get it to be more like Mass Effect 2. There were no specifics ironed out, he simply looked at the condition of ME2 in terms of character customization, party control and tactical combat and knew that he didn't want to give the same treatment to DA2. If you think that they had all of the gameplay mechanics ironed out before making the entire game, you're completely clueless as to how game development works. Laidlaw is to blame. End of story. You may not agree with it, but that doesn't validate your opiinion when the facts clearly state otherwise.

Look at ME2's pre launch coverage, and now look at this excellent video of DA2's. Now compare that to DA:O.




-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

NvVanity wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

If I recall there was a petition thread for firing him.

Sure, but is that what this thread is? No.

-Polite

[NvVanity]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

NvVanity wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Byth wrote...

Anyway, it's fine that you don't like DA2, but getting on a forum and saying in a nutshell "I don't like DA2 so fire the guy who made it." Isn't really going to effect anything.

He never said fire the guy. Where are you people reading these statements from? You see things that are clearly not there.

-Polite

If I recall there was a petition thread for firing him.

Sure, but is that what this thread is? No.

-Polite

You asked where those statements came from. I answered.

[Dragoonlordz]

All I pointed out is from his own comments the direction he wished to take an original series with pre-existing fanbase was in a different direction to what attracted that fanbase which gave DAO a triple A star rating. I mentioned that I was of the opinion that would it have been better if he managed a different project to DA3 based on his own views of where the existing should go is different to where it has been. Improvement is one thing but his goal wasn't to improve it was to change.

I asked a question would those who agreed with his concept of how he approaches the RPG genre would mind if they had him leading and pushing the direction of their favorite series.

I never asked him to be fired I have to keep pointing that out because people struggle to read the dozen times I have written it. But that he switches to a project that is more inline with what he wants and not rather than being in charge and changing a pre-existing series/title. That in DA3 we could give someone else a chance to lead DA3 development one who would follow up the success of the previous one with a like minded approach which made the first such a massive success fan wise. Whether thats John Epler or Chris given a chance since they can see daily what the fans want on here.

I did not blame him for making a bad game imho I held him responsable for the role he plays which is the direction the game goes which is 100% factually true. Not fired but switches to something that didn't have a pre-existing fanbase and if was going to try a lot of new things wouldn't it have been better to use a fresh title or series one without a fanbase built on a previous game concept/model.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 avril 2011 - 11:36 .

[NvVanity]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

All I pointed out is fromhis own comment the direction he wished to take an original series with pre-existing fanbase was in a different direction to what attracted that fanbase which gave DAO a triple A star rating. I mentioned that I was of the opinion that would it have been better if he managed a different project to DA3 based on his own views of where the existing should go is different to where it has been. Improvement is one thing but his goal wasn't to improve it was to change.

I asked a question would those who agreed with his concept of how he approaches the RPG genre would mind if they had him leading and pushing the direction of their favorite series.

I never asked him to be fired I have to keep pointing that out because people struggle to read the dozen times I have written it. But that he switches to a project that is more inline with what he wants and not rather than being in charge and changing a pre-existing series/title. That in DA3 we could give someone else a chance to lead DA3 development one who would follow up the success of the previous one with a like minded appraoch which made the first such a massive success fan wise. Whether thats John Epler or Chris given a chance since they can see daily what the fans want on here.

Don't worry I understand. And going off on a leg I'd assume most people would understand. But thats just my optimism.

[MrTijger]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

No need to fire him, there are lots of things a guy with his convincing sales abilities can do. He has loads of strong abilities but designing RPG games isnt one of them.

Has it occured to you that the Bioware leadership didnt ask him to make an RPG?

I remember David Gaider saying that they needed to 'kick the sandcastle' which is exactly what was done, not saying he was right or that was what the fans wanted but clearly, Bioware had that state of mind and acted on it.
So, before you condemn someone, perhaps you should consider that he delivered exactly what he was asked to deliver.

[Dragoonlordz]

MrTijger wrote...

Johnsen1972 wrote...

No need to fire him, there are lots of things a guy with his convincing sales abilities can do. He has loads of strong abilities but designing RPG games isnt one of them.

Has it occured to you that the Bioware leadership didnt ask him to make an RPG?

I remember David Gaider saying that they needed to 'kick the sandcastle' which is exactly what was done, not saying he was right or that was what the fans wanted but clearly, Bioware had that state of mind and acted on it.
So, before you condemn someone, perhaps you should consider that he delivered exactly what he was asked to deliver.

So your having a go at me for pointing a finger at the lead developer for direction he takes the game he is in charge of then telling me I should be pointing at someone else... I'm sorry but I cannot take you seriously because the method of your brazen attack right from the offset, not just in this thread but in the last half dozen I have had an opinion and voiced it.

There are some nice people in here who have discussed my opinion and I'm glad to do so but you have just attacked so I'm sorry but I can't debate with you when your filled with such hate and anger.

My thread is neither an attack on his competence or himself personally, it is a discussion merely about the direction he chose to take a pre-existing series which differs to mine and quite a few others here (his vision and direction by his own words used as a basis). Voicing the opinion would I and others been happier if someone else held the reins for this title, and if possible would it be better if headed another project as opposed to DA3 given his views on the genre and RPG's in general.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 avril 2011 - 11:45 .

[Johnsen1972]

MrTijger wrote...

I remember David Gaider saying that they needed to 'kick the sandcastle' which is exactly what was done, not saying he was right or that was what the fans wanted but clearly, Bioware had that state of mind and acted on it.
So, before you condemn someone, perhaps you should consider that he delivered exactly what he was asked to deliver.

Ok Im asking myself: What has Mike L  to deliver.

1) A sucessful selling game. - > Fail
2) Making  existing ME and DAO Fans happy -> Fail
3) Raising Biowares Reputation -> Fail

Those are the deliverables for his project.

And btw, I didnt condemn him, I said promote him to do something that fits more to his abilities.

[MrTijger]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

So your having a go at me for pointing a finger at the lead developer for direction he takes the game he is in charge of then telling me I should be pointing at someone else... I'm sorry but I cannot take you seriously because the method of your brazen attack right from the offset, not just in this thread but in the last half dozen I have had an opinion and voiced it.

There are some nice people in here who have discussed my opinion and I'm glad to do so but you have just attacked so I'm sorry but I can't debate with you when your filled with such hate and anger.

Oh dear, I'm too abrasive for the tender souls who want a man kicked out of his job for not delivering what THEY wanted instead of what he was asked to make by his company

Yeah, dude, I'm the one thats hating and angry, honest.

[Dragoonlordz]

MrTijger wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

So your having a go at me for pointing a finger at the lead developer for direction he takes the game he is in charge of then telling me I should be pointing at someone else... I'm sorry but I cannot take you seriously because the method of your brazen attack right from the offset, not just in this thread but in the last half dozen I have had an opinion and voiced it.

There are some nice people in here who have discussed my opinion and I'm glad to do so but you have just attacked so I'm sorry but I can't debate with you when your filled with such hate and anger.

Oh dear, I'm too abrasive for the tender souls who want a man kicked out of his job for not delivering what THEY wanted instead of what he was asked to make by his company

Yeah, dude, I'm the one thats hating and angry, honest.

If your not going to contribute and just attack could you please spend your time in another thread. This doesn't mean I have the power to make but I'm asking you because all you have done is attack in here.

Heading a different project is not kicking him out of his job as it stands right now I don't even know if he is in charge of DA3. He won't lose his job and I'm certainly not asking that but leads switch projects all the time I suggest if want to know what I want and why please read my thread rather than taking every opportunity to attack me.

Your borderline trolling me at this stage.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 02:07 .

[MrTijger]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

MrTijger wrote...

I remember David Gaider saying that they needed to 'kick the sandcastle' which is exactly what was done, not saying he was right or that was what the fans wanted but clearly, Bioware had that state of mind and acted on it.
So, before you condemn someone, perhaps you should consider that he delivered exactly what he was asked to deliver.

Ok Im asking myself: What has Mike L  to deliver.

1) A sucessful selling game. - > Fail
2) Making  existing ME and DAO Fans happy -> Fail
3) Raising Biowares Reputation -> Fail

Those are the deliverables for his project.

And btw, I didnt condemn him, I said promote him to do something that fits more to his abilities.

Eh, actually, you dont know what the deliverables were. Again, this is the problem here, people making judgements without having even a smattering of the facts. I dont pretend to have them either, I'm saying that making the judgements is unfair and impossible without detailed knowledge.

Yeah, point 1, obviously but we cannot make that judgement, we dont have accurate sales figures nor do we know what the targets were. As for 2 and 3, highly doubtful those were stated goals.

[MrTijger]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If your not going to contribute and just attack could you please spend your time in another thread. This doesn't mean I have the power to make but I'm asking you because all you have done is attack in here.

Your borderline trolling me at this stage.

I have contributed, in my opinion, quite a bit here, that you dont like my contributions, well....thats a personal issue.

You feel you have the liberty to attack an employee who cannot defend himself yet if someone attacks you then you suddenly get moralistic? How....disingenious.

I feel you are trolling me now, so please, stop?