255 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Rovay wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Their fanbase isn't pissed off, just the "Remake Baldur's Gate Forever" crowd.  :D:D

Which is usually pissed off.

Or maybe I just look at the wrong threads.

No, you're totally right.  The "Don't Change Stuff" crowd is always angry when a new or neat changes are proposed or offered.  They're powerfully invested in how Things Should Be!  Just look at these forums.  The tears are outrageous, and honestly hilarious.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
If your just here to troll the thread please leave.

Your opinion looks a lot like trolling to me, but I'm taking it at face value that you're some how serious and offering your opinion upfront and honestly.  I'm doing the same thing.  You might  not like it, but oh well.  We both get to have opinions.

Mine is:  I reject the premise of your argurment that DA lost AAA status.  It can only appear so when you view DA2 in the context of "BG/NWN is perfect!"  DA2 was a great game with different flaws from DAO.  DA3 will be more like DA2 and will have flaws all its own.  ^_^

[planed scaped]

Put Mike Laidlaw on a Dragon Age spinoff project while the main team goes back to making a real Dragon Age 2.

[Dragoonlordz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
If your just here to troll the thread please leave.

Your opinion looks a lot like trolling to me, but I'm taking it at face value that you're some how serious and offering your opinion upfront and honestly.  I'm doing the same thing.  You might  not like it, but oh well.  We both get to have opinions.

Mine is:  I reject the premise of your argurment that DA lost AAA status.  It can only appear so when you view DA2 in the context of "BG/NWN is perfect!"  DA2 was a great game with different flaws from DAO.  DA3 will be more like DA2 and will have flaws all its own.  ^_^

If my opinion is trolling to you and this whole thread was created on the premise of that opinion why did you come in here.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Their fanbase isn't pissed off, just the "Remake Baldur's Gate Forever" crowd. 

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

No, you're totally right.  The "Don't Change Stuff" crowd is always angry when a new or neat changes are proposed or offered.  They're powerfully invested in how Things Should Be!  Just look at these forums.  The tears are outrageous, and honestly hilarious.

How exactly is this not trolling a thread. When it's a clear statement that insults those of us with opinions and wish to discuss them. From this point on a shall not give substance or credit to you in the way of replies because your opinion as it were is to do nothing but degrade those with a difference to your own. Others have stated a different opinion to my own in here and I have thanked them for their input, your a different situation because you insult the rest of us.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 05:10 .

[Lux]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Thanks for your input it's nice to see level headed discussion as opposed to a red hot poker up my bum from the fanatic's. I kind of think more along the lines of direction he wanted to take the series/(pre-exsisting title) rather than the time he took.

Such as most recently I mentioned http://social.biowar...19590/6#6928075 as a snapshot version of what I have been saying throughout the thread.

But I do appreciate it when open minded people are willing to discuss with me such things, so thanks.

I understand your point.

I tend to see his lead in the game as being in front of a team following guidelines from EA/BioWare in attempting to move the RPG genre to a more profitable direction; not something that he alone envisioned. There's also something about silver-tongued people, as they tend to tell more than what really is.

Considering the direction he was asked to pursue (which the previous lead refused to go through), and the contraints in time and money, did he/they just ran out of time to do better and were forced to make substantial shortcuts? Is he the villain or a victim of circumstance?

Some of the changes are not entirely unredeemable. The faster paced combat has potential. It makes more sense to me than a queue for spells and actions (minus the silly excess in exploding bodies, waves, teleports, over the top maneuvers and gravity-defying weapons). If he had the capacity to adapt to the given guidelines and do what was possible, couldn't he also be able to do better given the feedback and need for improvement?

Unless he's really that obtuse (which I doubt he is), he should be given another chance. That's my opinion.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Your opinion looks a lot like trolling to me, but I'm taking it at face value that you're some how serious and offering your opinion upfront and honestly.  I'm doing the same thing.  You might  not like it, but oh well.  We both get to have opinions.

If my opinion is trolling to you and this whole thread was created on the premise of that opinion why did you come in here.

Finish reading my post.  :lol:  I underlined to help ya!

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How exactly is this not trolling a thread. When it's a clear statement that insults those of us with opinions and wish to discuss them. From this point on a shall not give substance or credit to you in the way of replies because your opinion as it were is to do nothing but degrade those with a difference to your own. Others have stated a different opinion to my own in here and I have thanked them for their input, your a different situation because you insult the rest of us.

There was no insult, I don't know why you feel insulted.  I believe that there is a crowd that goes wild whenever anything they love in RPGs is challenged or improved.  DA2 =clearly= improved the worst parts of RPGS:  Dull loot management, tedious gear comparisons, and a bad skew in favor of planning to play over playing.  That crowd might see DA2 as Teh Debil, but it isn't.  DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.  B)B)

You can ignore what I say, that's your right.  But covering your ears and going la la la la la doesn't make me wrong.  It kind of suggests that you know in your heart I'm right.

;)

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 04 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[Lux]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
 DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.

I beg to differ on that statement.

[Dragoonlordz]

Merkar wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Thanks for your input it's nice to see level headed discussion as opposed to a red hot poker up my bum from the fanatic's. I kind of think more along the lines of direction he wanted to take the series/(pre-exsisting title) rather than the time he took.

Such as most recently I mentioned http://social.biowar...19590/6#6928075 as a snapshot version of what I have been saying throughout the thread.

But I do appreciate it when open minded people are willing to discuss with me such things, so thanks.

I understand your point.

I tend to see his lead in the game as being in front of a team following guidelines from EA/BioWare in attempting to move the RPG genre to a more profitable direction; not something that he alone envisioned. There's also something about silver-tongued people, as they tend to tell more than what really is.

Considering the direction he was asked to pursue (which the previous lead refused to go through), and the contraints in time and money, did he/they just ran out of time to do better and were forced to make substantial shortcuts? Is he the villain or a victim of circumstance?

Some of the changes are not entirely unredeemable. The faster paced combat has potential. It makes more sense to me than a queue for spells and actions (minus the silly excess in exploding bodies, waves, teleports, over the top maneuvers and gravity-defying weapons). If he had the capacity to adapt to the given guidelines and do what was possible, couldn't he also be able to do better given the feedback and need for improvement?

Unless he's really that obtuse (which I doubt he is), he should be given another chance. That's my opinion.

I don't really view him as a bad person or a villain, I just get the impression from all he says and talks about in his interviews as well as his quotes and responses to what has been asked that his vision was not the same as what brought all the fanbase to DA in the first place and made it so successful. He's not satan he isn't incompetant (as far as I know) he just came across as someone who had a different idea of what an RPG is but instead of taking the reins on a new project which could use to explore these ideas and see how it worked out, he ended up leading on a pre-existing one that was designed from the offset with a different concept and direction than his own.

As far as I know DA3 hasn't actually started yet so in theory would at the moment have no lead (so he can't lose something he never had to begin with), I would like to see him manage a new project one where he can take his ideas of what an RPG should be and explore that but I dont think taking on an originally different series was the best choice. He probably didn't have much choice in the matter but I personally would like to see someone with the same concepts and idea of what an RPG is as Brent had when first lead the direction of DAO and make improvements on that not changes just because his ideology is different. This is just my opinion and on which this whole thread was created, I'm not saying I'm right or I'm wrong but I am entitled to say it and have done so in as much detail as I can to all reasonable people like yourself.

With regard to what I mean by changes not improvements there is a video in this thread which talks about it and I have answered that on a earlier post in here.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 05:57 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Merkar wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
 DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.

I beg to differ on that statement.

Beg away.  :)

[Night Prowler76]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Your opinion looks a lot like trolling to me, but I'm taking it at face value that you're some how serious and offering your opinion upfront and honestly.  I'm doing the same thing.  You might  not like it, but oh well.  We both get to have opinions.

If my opinion is trolling to you and this whole thread was created on the premise of that opinion why did you come in here.

Finish reading my post.  :lol:  I underlined to help ya!

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How exactly is this not trolling a thread. When it's a clear statement that insults those of us with opinions and wish to discuss them. From this point on a shall not give substance or credit to you in the way of replies because your opinion as it were is to do nothing but degrade those with a difference to your own. Others have stated a different opinion to my own in here and I have thanked them for their input, your a different situation because you insult the rest of us.

There was no insult, I don't know why you feel insulted.  I believe that there is a crowd that goes wild whenever anything they love in RPGs is challenged or improved.  DA2 =clearly= improved the worst parts of RPGS:  Dull loot management, tedious gear comparisons, and a bad skew in favor of planning to play over playing.  That crowd might see DA2 as Teh Debil, but it isn't.  DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.  B)B)

You can ignore what I say, that's your right.  But covering your ears and going la la la la la doesn't make me wrong.  It kind of suggests that you know in your heart I'm right.

;)

Critcis and sales clearly point to the fact that DA2 did not really improve on much of anything in the RPG genre, you are just full of fail, I am glad however that small minded individuals like yourself are in the minority and the game might actually go back to being an RPG game and not an action game.

You are the one who is covering their ears and going la la la la, if people arent buying the sequal of a AAA game at the same pace they bought the original, its failing to keep its core audience while bringing in new players, this is not the sign of a vast improvement in RPG gaming.

You lose.

[AkiKishi]

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

[Serpieri Nei]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Your opinion looks a lot like trolling to me, but I'm taking it at face value that you're some how serious and offering your opinion upfront and honestly.  I'm doing the same thing.  You might  not like it, but oh well.  We both get to have opinions.

If my opinion is trolling to you and this whole thread was created on the premise of that opinion why did you come in here.

Finish reading my post.  :lol:  I underlined to help ya!

Dragoonlordz wrote...

How exactly is this not trolling a thread. When it's a clear statement that insults those of us with opinions and wish to discuss them. From this point on a shall not give substance or credit to you in the way of replies because your opinion as it were is to do nothing but degrade those with a difference to your own. Others have stated a different opinion to my own in here and I have thanked them for their input, your a different situation because you insult the rest of us.

There was no insult, I don't know why you feel insulted.  I believe that there is a crowd that goes wild whenever anything they love in RPGs is challenged or improved.  DA2 =clearly= improved the worst parts of RPGS:  Dull loot management, tedious gear comparisons, and a bad skew in favor of planning to play over playing.  That crowd might see DA2 as Teh Debil, but it isn't.  DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.  B)B)

You can ignore what I say, that's your right.  But covering your ears and going la la la la la doesn't make me wrong.  It kind of suggests that you know in your heart I'm right.

;)

You are aware what you consider an improvement, others consider a step backwards. You may also want to ask yourself why these features were removed, since according to your reasoning they were done to improve the game. If thats the case then why are these features being charged for now in MEII?

On another note, if you want to be taken serious I suggest you chose better words and leave the la la la la la, tears, and crying out.

[Dragoonlordz]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

You are aware what you consider an improvement, others consider a step backwards. You may also want to ask yourself why these features were removed, since according to your reasoning they were done to improve the game. If thats the case then why are these features being charged for now in MEII?

On another note, if you want to be taken serious I suggest you chose better words and leave the la la la la la, tears, and crying out.

I suggest we don't feed him, he will either starve or go hunt for food in another thread.

[Rockpopple]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

Ah, hyperbole and mass generalization, how I've missed you.

[Dragoonlordz]

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

Ah, hyperbole and mass generalization, how I've missed you.

Please don't use the thread I created to merely argue semantics or start a ****** for tat.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 06:19 .

[Rockpopple]

You'd rather I just use it for blanket declarative statements with little to no evidence and substance to back it up instead?

I suppose you would.... if I shared your opinion. But if my opinion differed from yours, you'd call it trolling. Hmm.

[AkiKishi]

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

Ah, hyperbole and mass generalization, how I've missed you.

Feel free to prove otherwise.

It's going to be hard for DA to regain AAA status. Any pre-orders of DA3 will be based on the reception of DA2. There are a lot of people who will no longer give the game the benifit of the doubt just because it's made by Bioware.

Even a new lead won't change really change that unless they could somehow get Brent Knowles back,he seems to be the only one that has an "hardcore" credibility.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 04 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Rockpopple wrote...

You'd rather I just use it for blanket declarative statements with little to no evidence and substance to back it up instead?

I suppose you would.... if I shared your opinion. But if my opinion differed from yours, you'd call it trolling. Hmm.

No I call it derailing the thread regardless of it agree with me or not in my opinion which the thread is about.

This isn't punch and judy and we both know where two people bickering over something like this issue leads too.

I'm asking to cut it out before it starts with Bob don't respond to Rock and Rock don't respond to Bob on that issue.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 avril 2011 - 06:33 .

[billy the squid]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

  DA2 =clearly= improved the worst parts of RPGS:  Dull loot management, tedious gear comparisons, and a bad skew in favor of planning to play over playing.  That crowd might see DA2 as Teh Debil, but it isn't.  DA2 did not compromise DA's AAA status.  B)B)

You can ignore what I say, that's your right.  But covering your ears and going la la la la la doesn't make me wrong.  It kind of suggests that you know in your heart I'm right.

;)

Oh look a sheep, how blind faith has improved  

Modifié par billy the squid, 04 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[Rockpopple]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

Ah, hyperbole and mass generalization, how I've missed you.

Feel free to prove otherwise.

Yeah, Bob, I would, but I - like most serious people - am not in the business of trying to prove a negative.

Jeez. I'd think I was infallible all the time if all I did was argue with myself. Or walls. Plenty of walls available.

[Ronin2006]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

You'd rather I just use it for blanket declarative statements with little to no evidence and substance to back it up instead?

I suppose you would.... if I shared your opinion. But if my opinion differed from yours, you'd call it trolling. Hmm.

No I call it derailing the thread regardless of it agree with me or not in my opinion which the thread is about.

Ahh the derail the thread technique.  Usually occurs when someone doesn't like the opinion of the OP but can't substantiate any argument against what the OP has actually written, so instead they just find whatever criticism they can think of.  It's often irrelevant, but these people are quite often successful in bringing nothing to the debate, but plenty of spam to the thread.

Mr Tijger are you listening?

[leeboi2]

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Seriously, is nobody getting bored of these threads yet? The combat's faster (Worse? Whatever...) The stories different. (Did anybody seriously want another blight or the boring Warden?) Stop complaining, it's a good game...Just because it isn't to your specific liking it doesn't make it a terrible game, you people (PC gamers in general, I play on PC & Console) just annoy me...

[AkiKishi]

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA2 dragged the DA IP through the dirt. It's dellusional to think otherwise.

Ah, hyperbole and mass generalization, how I've missed you.

Feel free to prove otherwise.

Yeah, Bob, I would, but I - like most serious people - am not in the business of trying to prove a negative.

Jeez. I'd think I was infallible all the time if all I did was argue with myself. Or walls. Plenty of walls available.

Funny when all the evidence points the other way
lowest rated Bioware game ever - check.
Reviews sub 5 check.
First patch of 100+ bug fixes - check.
Price reduction after 3 weeks -check.

You can make all the excuses you like but if you can't counter that, your just blowing hot air.

[cljqnsnyc]

Why are these labels applied to anyone who has any sort of problem with DA2 or it's developers?

1. Troll
2. Hater
3. Crybaby

We are all entitled to our own opinions and most of us are capable of forming independent thoughts......most of us. In any case, a project leader is held accountable when a project or product meets expectation, exceeds goals, or fails do accomplish any of the above. One person does not make up a team, but as that lead, he or she shoulders the responsibility of how that product performs. If consumers are unhappy with a product, they have every right to complain. That's how the system works.

Bioware has cultivated a reputation of excellence over the course of many years. In an industry filled with mediocrity, they have prospered for gaining a reputation by listening to it's fans and exceeding their expectations time and time again. Quality craftsmanship and attention to detail, which requires time, over sloppiness and inefficiency. If you are taught to appreciate prime rib, ground beef simply will not due. Of course opinions are purely subjective, but this does not change the fact that we are allowed to have them and express them.

Holding someone accountable is the right of every consumer. Disagreeing with someone's stance does not change this fact. Some people do not believe strongly enough in their own opinions and seek validation from others. If they can't get what they feel they need, frustration forces them to resort to name calling and personal attacks.

I personally do not hate DA2. Hate is a very strong word that has been wildly misused on these forums. It may apply to some, but certainly not to all. Even though there are some things to enjoy in this game, overall, I was highly disappointed with all it seemed to lack. That coupled with the way I interpreted a few statements by the lead designer in recent interviews were enough for me to exercise my right to complain. If that's a problem for some, then I'd suggest they take that up with...themselves.

Calling for a man's head on a platter over a game is silly. Asking a company to discontinue his employment is cruel. Questioning his performance based on a personal assessment of a product he had control of is fair. Holding someone accountable for the statements they make is also fair. DA2 elicits such a strong reaction because longtime consumers are afraid of an all too familiar pattern being repeated. Big fish takes smaller fish, consumes smaller fish until said fish exists no more.

I for one still have faith in Bioware. A speed bump isn't enough to stop a car that's been traveling for a long period of time. As for Mike Laidlaw...some on these forums have been viciously unfair towards him. At the same time he bares the responsibility of his position. Who knows, he may yet surprise his many detractors. As I stated before in a previous post, the ball is in his and Bioware's court.

PS......

Feel free to disagree with my opinion but be warned..... It's MY opinion, and I have every right to express it! Like it or not!

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 04 avril 2011 - 07:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Ahh the derail the thread technique.  Usually occurs when someone doesn't like the opinion of the OP but can't substantiate any argument against what the OP has actually written, so instead they just find whatever criticism they can think of.  It's often irrelevant, but these people are quite often successful in bringing nothing to the debate, but plenty of spam to the thread.

Mr Tijger are you listening?

I agree with the initial comment, this is a tactic used by fanatic's to get a thread closed without contributing to it in a mature and sensible way. Normally starts with a definition of a word or some semantics, failing that using insults. It's a shame people can't have a normal discussion with two sides expresing different viewpoints without these people hijacking a thread to purposefully get it closed because they cannot/will not debate the topic even though no-one forced a gun to their heads and made them come into it in the first place.