236 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

If biotics had 1/3 chance to work through defenses, wouldn't that mean you could disable most enemies within ten seconds just by spamming Pull? But maybe that is actually OK anyway.

[Bozorgmehr]

Dave666 wrote...

As it stands it takes about the same ammount of time to kill an enemy with guns as it does with biotics once its down to health.  This should definately not be the case. Perhaps having the heavy versions of things like throw and pull work when an enemy still has protections but not do damage.

Biotics are fine the way they are - only Shockwave might need some improvement / adjustment to make it viable on Harcore and Insanity. When biotics (even the Heavy versions) work regardless of defenses they'll completely break the game - way too easy.

I also believe there are people who expect too much from biotic powers. Adepts are no mages, they are soldiers like all the other classes who are also highly skilled biotics. Every single power in ME2 is meant to improve Shep's combat potential (not replace guns altogether). Soldiers can use a buff (AR) which doesn't affect enemies at all - only improving Shep's damage potential when using weapons. Adepts on the other hand, have powers to completely disable and even kill enemies - but they are not (meant to be) strong enough to fight without weapons.

BTW, biotics are far more deadly than weapons once enemies have lost defenses (=> 90% of the time you'll spent fighting).

[Dave666]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

As it stands it takes about the same ammount of time to kill an enemy with guns as it does with biotics once its down to health.  This should definately not be the case. Perhaps having the heavy versions of things like throw and pull work when an enemy still has protections but not do damage.

Biotics are fine the way they are - only Shockwave might need some improvement / adjustment to make it viable on Harcore and Insanity. When biotics (even the Heavy versions) work regardless of defenses they'll completely break the game - way too easy.

I also believe there are people who expect too much from biotic powers. Adepts are no mages, they are soldiers like all the other classes who are also highly skilled biotics. Every single power in ME2 is meant to improve Shep's combat potential (not replace guns altogether). Soldiers can use a buff (AR) which doesn't affect enemies at all - only improving Shep's damage potential when using weapons. Adepts on the other hand, have powers to completely disable and even kill enemies - but they are not (meant to be) strong enough to fight without weapons.

BTW, biotics are far more deadly than weapons once enemies have lost defenses (=> 90% of the time you'll spent fighting).

I still disagree, Adepts are my favourite class and I've litterally lost count of how many playthroughs I've done (Insanity) and i still say that given that Adepts need to strip defences first before the majority of biotics will take effect then biotics should be more effective than guns.  Lets face it, how much of a hinderance are defences for Soldiers, Infiltrators or even Vangards?  More bullets, thats it.  Those three classes though are combat classes and gain bonuses to shooting (slowdown and base damage bonuses).  What do Adepts and Engineers get?  Crowd control, which I might add the combat classes also get with Ammo Powers like cryo and incendiary.  So the Adepts signature crowd control, isn't even unique.

Modifié par Dave666, 05 avril 2011 - 10:51 .

[Malanek]

This whole thread irritates me. People are overstating the effectiveness of soldiers and understating the effectiveness of Adpets and Engineers. The soldier is a little too good but if the Mattock was tweaked to slow down under Adrenaline rush it would be relatively balanced. Singularity effects most enemies with protections on. It is an amazing power with a tiny cooldown, upgrade to heavy ASAP. The Adept does not start slowly either, all it needs is Singularity and the Biotic passive. Other classes really have a greater need to diversify more. Drone is fine as well, a very powerful power, the engineer has a lot of options to supplement it.

[Dave666]

Malanek999 wrote...

This whole thread irritates me. People are overstating the effectiveness of soldiers and understating the effectiveness of Adpets and Engineers. The soldier is a little too good but if the Mattock was tweaked to slow down under Adrenaline rush it would be relatively balanced. Singularity effects most enemies with protections on. It is an amazing power with a tiny cooldown, upgrade to heavy ASAP. The Adept does not start slowly either, all it needs is Singularity and the Biotic passive. Other classes really have a greater need to diversify more. Drone is fine as well, a very powerful power, the engineer has a lot of options to supplement it.

Ah, the obligatory, if you criticize a class it means you don't know how to play it post.

[Malanek]

Dave666 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

This whole thread irritates me. People are overstating the effectiveness of soldiers and understating the effectiveness of Adpets and Engineers. The soldier is a little too good but if the Mattock was tweaked to slow down under Adrenaline rush it would be relatively balanced. Singularity effects most enemies with protections on. It is an amazing power with a tiny cooldown, upgrade to heavy ASAP. The Adept does not start slowly either, all it needs is Singularity and the Biotic passive. Other classes really have a greater need to diversify more. Drone is fine as well, a very powerful power, the engineer has a lot of options to supplement it.

Ah, the obligatory, if you criticize a class it means you don't know how to play it post.

Did others take my post that way?

[kstarler]

Personally, I like the Insanity difficulty balance in ME2, especially in comparison to ME1's Insanity. The beauty of the Rock/Paper/Scissors defense system is that, once mastered, the game can be played at just about the same speed as on Normal. With the exception of bosses and mini-bosses, the right combination of powers and weapon use will kill a regular enemy just as quickly on Insanity as on Normal. I also like that some classes must be played differently on Insanity than on Normal. The hardest difficulty level of a game should force a player to adapt their style to different circumstances, and the player should be (and, in the case of ME2, is) rewarded for adapting.

As far as class balance goes, I would agree that the Mattock wielding Soldier is overpowered. However, I would disagree that a Revenant or Widow/Vindicator wielding Soldier is equally overpowered. Just watch Sinosleep's Revenant Soldier video here and try to do it yourself. If you're a gamer of only average skill like I am, you'll find it's a very tough style to pull off without a good bit of practice and reloading. Is the Soldier easier to play/more accessible than the Adept? Yes. Is the Adept terribly underpowered? Not if played correctly. Personally, I find it is far more challenging and rewarding to dominate the game as a shotgun wielding Adept that eschews cover than as a mattock wielding Soldier of any variety.

I should point out that, back when I tried my first Insanity run in ME2 (before the Firepower Pack), the concensus that I found around the internet was that the Infiltrator and Sentinel were the best choices for a first time Insanity play through, because they had the best survivability. There will always be a class that people think is "overpowered" in single player games, and a class that people think is "underpowered." The beauty of a single player game like ME2 is if there is one way that is less fun to play, there are at least five other ways to play that will likely be more fun.

Modifié par kstarler, 05 avril 2011 - 11:05 .

[Kabanya101]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Kabanya101 wrote...

class balance was perfect in Mass Effect 1, but in 2 all the classes are vastly unbalanced, and terribly built. The soldier has no powers in Mass Effect 2, so to make up for it, the developers made adrenaline rush overpowered greatly, making the soldier a one hit wonder with that and the sniper. That's why it seems powerful, because your instincts is to use one strong power over and over again, instead of adapting to multiple powers, which was also screwed because of the all power cooldown.

The builds were ruined, especially with the soldier, because all the dominant passives were taken away from it that it had in Mass Effect 1. Gameplay, graphics, and mechanics all good, but character builds are a train wreck in Mass Effect 2. I've played every class in both games, and there is a big drop off in the ME2.

Soldier in ME1 was way more overpowered on insanity than any class in ME2. Adrenaline rush is overpowered? Did you forget about Immunity? That ability you could bascially spam for 80% damage reduction on top of aready high damage mitigation? You're either an idiot or trolling. The classes in ME2 are much more balanced on insanity than ME1 with the only exception being vanguard.

You have no clue what your talking about, the whole point of the immunity ability in ME1 was to give the soldier class an edge, because it didn't have fancy powers like the other classes, where they could throw up barriers, or take enemy weapons out. Each class needs an edge, to show why it should be picked. They each had multiple powers that were effective, with one overpowered one. That's balance, ME2 on the other hand, some classes like the sentinel have four, five good powers that completely dominate, when the soldier has nothing but AR that is outragously overpowered. Same with the vanguard and charge. That's not balance. They gave some classes one, MAYBE two good powers, and the rest ammo powers, which aren't even powers, and then others like the engineer and sentinel are stacked.
Powers aren't balanced, and the lack of passives takes away from the whole RPG aspect of the game.

[Dave666]

Malanek999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

This whole thread irritates me. People are overstating the effectiveness of soldiers and understating the effectiveness of Adpets and Engineers. The soldier is a little too good but if the Mattock was tweaked to slow down under Adrenaline rush it would be relatively balanced. Singularity effects most enemies with protections on. It is an amazing power with a tiny cooldown, upgrade to heavy ASAP. The Adept does not start slowly either, all it needs is Singularity and the Biotic passive. Other classes really have a greater need to diversify more. Drone is fine as well, a very powerful power, the engineer has a lot of options to supplement it.

Ah, the obligatory, if you criticize a class it means you don't know how to play it post.

Did others take my post that way?

Its possible that I may have overeacted a little, though I am tired of seeing people say that.  I know very well how to play the classes, I just reached a different conclusion to you.

[Bozorgmehr]

Dave666 wrote...

I still disagree, Adepts are my favourite class and I've litterally lost count of how many playthroughs I've done (Insanity) and i still say that given that Adepts need to strip defences first before the majority of biotics will take effect then biotics should be more effective than guns.  Lets face it, how much of a hinderance are defences for Soldiers, Infiltrators or even Vangards?  More bullets, thats it.  Those three classes though are combat classes and gain bonuses to shooting (slowdown and base damage bonuses).  What do Adepts and Engineers get?  Crowd control, which I might add the combat classes also get with Ammo Powers like cryo and incendiary.  So the Adepts signature crowd control, isn't even unique.

Mass Effect is a squadbased game so there are few powers (none actually) that can only be used by Shep. Everyone playing a Soldier can use biotic squadmates and Pull some guys or Warpbomb em - just like Adepts can use squad ammo powers if they really want to.

CC ammo effects are not very useful for the combat classes, they rely on taking down a single enemy fast. CC ing enemies who are going to be death in 0.1 s doesn't help much. Ammo powers only work against the right layers - using AP ammo on the Widow and shooting enemies with shields or barriers is completely useless, for example. Besides, ammo is equipment, not a power - and like all equipment should be available to all classes. The biggest problem of the caster classes is not having a decent gun at the start of the game, giving them a shotgun or assault rifle would solve most people's issues.

Check social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/6832785 to see how all classes handle the Fight for Your Life part - Adepts are king of CC (Engineers are screwed due to the drone bug or whatever it is).

[Epic777]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I still disagree, Adepts are my favourite class and I've litterally lost count of how many playthroughs I've done (Insanity) and i still say that given that Adepts need to strip defences first before the majority of biotics will take effect then biotics should be more effective than guns.  Lets face it, how much of a hinderance are defences for Soldiers, Infiltrators or even Vangards?  More bullets, thats it.  Those three classes though are combat classes and gain bonuses to shooting (slowdown and base damage bonuses).  What do Adepts and Engineers get?  Crowd control, which I might add the combat classes also get with Ammo Powers like cryo and incendiary.  So the Adepts signature crowd control, isn't even unique.

Mass Effect is a squadbased game so there are few powers (none actually) that can only be used by Shep. Everyone playing a Soldier can use biotic squadmates and Pull some guys or Warpbomb em - just like Adepts can use squad ammo powers if they really want to.

CC ammo effects are not very useful for the combat classes, they rely on taking down a single enemy fast. CC ing enemies who are going to be death in 0.1 s doesn't help much. Ammo powers only work against the right layers - using AP ammo on the Widow and shooting enemies with shields or barriers is completely useless, for example. Besides, ammo is equipment, not a power - and like all equipment should be available to all classes. The biggest problem of the caster classes is not having a decent gun at the start of the game, giving them a shotgun or assault rifle would solve most people's issues.

Check social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/6832785 to see how all classes handle the Fight for Your Life part - Adepts are king of CC (Engineers are screwed due to the drone bug or whatever it is).

I will mention this ,unlike all the the biotic classes: vanguard, sentinel the adept does not need another team mate to pull off warp bombs. With singuality and pull they  can do warp bombs by themselves. 

[kstarler]

EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood the previous post. Carry on.

Modifié par kstarler, 06 avril 2011 - 12:42 .