There's got to be more to the lyrium idol. If its story was over, we'd know.. well, anything at all about it aside from the fact it makes people crazy and gives super statue animating powers. This whole game was a buildup for the next one (or lots of DLC) and I'm sure the lyrium idol was just more of the same. So, it's not fair to judge the idol based on what we've seen so far IMO.
Did the story really need a MacGuffin?
Débuté par
Mekah
, avril 04 2011 01:55
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#27
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:12
Lord_Valandil
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Maria Caliban wrote...
No.Mekah wrote...
Did the story really need a MacGuffin?
The MacGuffin might be meaningful in future titles, however.
Yeah, you keep thinking that
#28
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:13
Wulfram
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It gives Hawke some more connection to the main plot, which is a bit limited as it is.
I doubt we'll see much more from the Idol itself, though the Primeval Thaig it came from and similar places around the deep roads will no doubt turn up in the future.
I doubt we'll see much more from the Idol itself, though the Primeval Thaig it came from and similar places around the deep roads will no doubt turn up in the future.
#29
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:20
Anarcala
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Lord_Valandil wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
No.Mekah wrote...
Did the story really need a MacGuffin?
The MacGuffin might be meaningful in future titles, however.
Yeah, you keep thinking that
I doubt the Macguffin itself will show up, but certainly the storylines connected to it will. My personal theory is that Varric will show up in a DLC related to the Primeval Thaig.
#30
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:22
Gyroscopic_Trout
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I would have liked to see a quest line in act 3 where they actually explain something of what the idol is, or how it ended up in Meredith's hands. I kind of assumed from the way Bartrand talked about it wanting to be worshiped and singing in his head that it had something to do with the Old Gods (or possibly Reaper indoctrination >.>). Maybe they could have linked the whole thing to the templars' lyrium addiction, which gets mentioned a few times.
Having said that, I don't really think it derailed the ending. It could still have gone down exactly the same way without it. To me, it seemed more like a game mechanic to give us a more epic boss fight than just wailing on some 40 year old woman with our entire party. Chalk it up to the eternal conflict between storytelling and game mechanics.
As an aside, I was irritated that we never really got to see it in decent detail. It's lying on it's side and we never see it from a good angle. It's a chunk of magic rock, not an HR Geiger alien. You don't need to tease us with what it looks like.
Having said that, I don't really think it derailed the ending. It could still have gone down exactly the same way without it. To me, it seemed more like a game mechanic to give us a more epic boss fight than just wailing on some 40 year old woman with our entire party. Chalk it up to the eternal conflict between storytelling and game mechanics.
As an aside, I was irritated that we never really got to see it in decent detail. It's lying on it's side and we never see it from a good angle. It's a chunk of magic rock, not an HR Geiger alien. You don't need to tease us with what it looks like.
#31
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:24
Augustei
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Mekah wrote...
The idol in this case. When it comes down to it it just seems like a cheap trick to push the final battle on the player, to make sure no one can be reasoned with and the entire poweder keg explodes. It wasn't really necessary to drive the conflict, though. Human (or human/elven) nature, coupled with the inherent tensions between the Mages and Templars should've been enough.
My issue is that, when the central conflict ends up being caused by the idol, all the events that end up occurring are entirely coincidental.
I mean, if Hawke hadn't gone on that expedition, the idol wouldn't have been found, Meredith wouldn't have obtained it, and it wouldn't have driven her into a everyone's-a-blood-mage madness preventing her from seeing any reason, which would have prevented Orsino from becoming a blood mage in response, etc...
Had it not been for the idol, maybe Hawke could have talked Meredith down at the very end, and provided a third option to end the game.
Sure it would've been found, if Hawke didn't go the expedition would have happened anyway and Varric would have gone to look out for his brother.. Dont understimate the power and badassery of varric, I saw him kill a whole room full of people by himself just to get to his brother for revenge lol. But yeah If hawke didn't do it, Varric would have.. I personally liked the idol corruption thing.. I didn't like the whole over-dramatic jumping sparkling thing it done to Meredith though, I wish it could have just poisoned her mind more subtley and in the final fight instead of just having a crazy meredith have fought just a ****load of templars as well as meredith who wasn't all crazy and stupid.. Maybe had a few revolt through cullen but majority of the order stand by Meredith.. Would have been much better imo
#32
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 02:42
Parrk
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Essentially, DA2 is the story of a pretty un-regretful war waged by two sets of exceedingly ugly actors. This installment serves to illustrate the events that lead up to this war which is pretty much the most world-changing event to occur in thedas since, well, since the last time the mages were free.
The protagonist unwittingly enables both sides (anders wouldn't have survived the Karl ambush, and the idol would not have been brought to the surface), and it is easy to see why many might see her as responsible.
While some who do not like this story may choose to see this installment as an intermission, I feel it is a necessary segway into a situation that is far more dire than the 5th blight. The entire continent is about to explode. What's more, DA2 serves to provide in-depth understanding of how the forces charged with preventing such things failed to do so and ultimately fell apart themselves.
The DA world has always been one where large events were caused or helped along by magic. Why should this be any different? They have tried to build up to a point where the world is in meltdown and there is no clear "good" side.
Even if this game does serve as a segway, that segway could not have been made without a complete loss of continuity otherwise.
People who confuse this story as being "small" or unimportant, or an unexciting tale of one woman's journey towards a lack-luster title completely misunderstand the dynamics of the world in which it is set. The 5th blight is literally nothing compared to what is set up for DA3. The last time something like this occurred, the creation of blights was but a by-product.
Half the residents of the continent view the protagonist of the last such encounter as a demi-god who married their creator. A few thousand people dying in the 5th blight is background noise compared to what is brewing currently.
The magic lightsaber is no more impressive than the superbomb that clears entire city blocks without any of the messy cleanup.
Was the idol necessary?
Absolutely, and on many different levels. The fact that the lightsaber battle took place serves to even the moral playing field and allow for a largely morality-neutral war that threatens the entire world. Even a power-hungry Meredith would never have gone so far were she not bat-sh*t crazy from an outside influence. The idol acts to remove her from the templar banner such that it allows us to accept templars as a viable support option. Were she not affected by an outside source then her acts would be those of her order, not of her own.
She (as a mad-driven antagonist) single-handedly balances against anders and the scores of blood mages that serve to tilt sentiment towards the templars.
She is no different from anders in this respect. They both serve as catalysts for the war, but neither can be tied to the side they represent.
The protagonist unwittingly enables both sides (anders wouldn't have survived the Karl ambush, and the idol would not have been brought to the surface), and it is easy to see why many might see her as responsible.
While some who do not like this story may choose to see this installment as an intermission, I feel it is a necessary segway into a situation that is far more dire than the 5th blight. The entire continent is about to explode. What's more, DA2 serves to provide in-depth understanding of how the forces charged with preventing such things failed to do so and ultimately fell apart themselves.
The DA world has always been one where large events were caused or helped along by magic. Why should this be any different? They have tried to build up to a point where the world is in meltdown and there is no clear "good" side.
Even if this game does serve as a segway, that segway could not have been made without a complete loss of continuity otherwise.
People who confuse this story as being "small" or unimportant, or an unexciting tale of one woman's journey towards a lack-luster title completely misunderstand the dynamics of the world in which it is set. The 5th blight is literally nothing compared to what is set up for DA3. The last time something like this occurred, the creation of blights was but a by-product.
Half the residents of the continent view the protagonist of the last such encounter as a demi-god who married their creator. A few thousand people dying in the 5th blight is background noise compared to what is brewing currently.
The magic lightsaber is no more impressive than the superbomb that clears entire city blocks without any of the messy cleanup.
Was the idol necessary?
Absolutely, and on many different levels. The fact that the lightsaber battle took place serves to even the moral playing field and allow for a largely morality-neutral war that threatens the entire world. Even a power-hungry Meredith would never have gone so far were she not bat-sh*t crazy from an outside influence. The idol acts to remove her from the templar banner such that it allows us to accept templars as a viable support option. Were she not affected by an outside source then her acts would be those of her order, not of her own.
She (as a mad-driven antagonist) single-handedly balances against anders and the scores of blood mages that serve to tilt sentiment towards the templars.
She is no different from anders in this respect. They both serve as catalysts for the war, but neither can be tied to the side they represent.
