138 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiTobsen]

laecraft wrote...

But he just refused to hand over the elves! It's the very same thing, isn't it?

He would turn your own argument against you. He is doing stuff like that all the time.

[NaclynE]

laecraft wrote...

But he just refused to hand over the elves! It's the very same thing, isn't it?

The Qunari are complicated people. Especially the Tal Vashoth as Sten from Dragon Age points out. There kind of like Kligons I hate to say. Reason why I say this is no there not the same thing. The point of why the Arishock refused is because the Arishock feels he lives in a area that has no law and order and is full of eternal conflict, strife, and poor. He feels he con overthrow the current society an create one of his own design. The elves he sees are people willing to be part of the 'New World Order' for all practicality. I still think the point of the book to him was it was stolen and needs to be found but the stolen object is no differant than all the people of kirckwall which to himis a area full of ***holes that need to be 'disciplined'. Of course his methods are wrong and screwed up.

[Plaintiff]

I would never turn Isabela over. I don't care what she did, nobody deserves to have their free will stripped from them as the Qunari would no doubt do to her. It's on the same level as being made tranquil, and it's unquestionably wrong. I don't like or care about the Arishok or the Qunari in general at all. Their philosophy is repellant to me and him considering me "honorable" means dick-all in the face of the fact that their ultimate goal is the violent subjugation and conversion of those who don't follow the supposed "wisdom" of the Qun.

[Icy Magebane]

NaclynE wrote...

laecraft wrote...

But he just refused to hand over the elves! It's the very same thing, isn't it?

The Qunari are complicated people. Especially the Tal Vashoth as Sten from Dragon Age points out. There kind of like Kligons I hate to say. Reason why I say this is no there not the same thing. The point of why the Arishock refused is because the Arishock feels he lives in a area that has no law and order and is full of eternal conflict, strife, and poor. He feels he con overthrow the current society an create one of his own design. The elves he sees are people willing to be part of the 'New World Order' for all practicality. I still think the point of the book to him was it was stolen and needs to be found but the stolen object is no differant than all the people of kirckwall which to himis a area full of ***holes that need to be 'disciplined'. Of course his methods are wrong and screwed up.

I thought the difference would be that Isabela stole the relic for personal gain, whereas the elves killed a guard because the justice system failed to avenge their sister?  What they did wasn't a crime in the eyes of the Qun.

[Well]

Qilune wrote...

He's honorable. He reminds me of Sten, whom I loved as a companion. The Arishok has a task set before him, which is to return a sacred relic of his people, stolen by human thieves, who are hidden away in human lands. He doesn't trust the humans, because he sees nothing respectable about them, which is often reinforced by those who are supposed to be the best of them, like members of the chantry or the templars or the city guard.

While he is a big jerk for throwing a fit and deciding to rampage the streets and cut off that useless Viscount's head off, I'd much rather have this guy thrown at that festering wasteland called "The Tevinter Imperium" Instead, I had to slice his head off, ending a great man, because there wasn't a grey area dialogue option so I could keep the only companion who uses dual weapons, the Arishok grudgingly leaves with the book and no Isabela, and everyone's happy.

This game doesn't do "and everyone's happy" very well.

I disagree but that is my opinion.I don't find a sneak attack as being honorable.As far as Sten.I never used him.I left him to the darkspawn.I would not take a child killer in my party.My option.How others play their game is theirs.

[shaneho78]

If you turn Isabela in, she'll be back in DA3 wearing a yellow jumpsuit.

[NaclynE]

Icy Magebane wrote...

NaclynE wrote...

laecraft wrote...

But he just refused to hand over the elves! It's the very same thing, isn't it?

The Qunari are complicated people. Especially the Tal Vashoth as Sten from Dragon Age points out. There kind of like Kligons I hate to say. Reason why I say this is no there not the same thing. The point of why the Arishock refused is because the Arishock feels he lives in a area that has no law and order and is full of eternal conflict, strife, and poor. He feels he con overthrow the current society an create one of his own design. The elves he sees are people willing to be part of the 'New World Order' for all practicality. I still think the point of the book to him was it was stolen and needs to be found but the stolen object is no differant than all the people of kirckwall which to himis a area full of ***holes that need to be 'disciplined'. Of course his methods are wrong and screwed up.

I thought the difference would be that Isabela stole the relic for personal gain, whereas the elves killed a guard because the justice system failed to avenge their sister?  What they did wasn't a crime in the eyes of the Qun.

Well again the crime of Isabella and no one protecting the elves when they repetaedly asked for help but got none (Even Aveline admits that this situation was news to her as in someone kept this a secret within her group) had a ironic connection. Stealing a prized item and haveing it go unoticed by the law of Kirckwall, his own people, and even the random innocents and a town that chose to let an innocent to die only for one to be avenged to the Arishock prooves that Kirckwall has no law and no order which is why he wanted to kill the Viscount in order to bring his own form of law and order and justice to Kirckwall by ending the corruption the Arishock felt Kirkwall was full of. Also the Qun are more of a warrior race so they look at the elves as being heroes for them avengeing their family. They also do not condone random thefts and violance and demand that they be punished. I feel like if you listen to alot of what Sten from Dragon Age Origions and Arishock in 2 have to say you would understand why the stolen artifact is no differant than the elven killers. I did on my first playthrough and I picked "I would want to protect the people and kill the others too". The Arishock knew my Hawke understood Quanari so of course I knew the situation was going to go from bad to worse When i knew the Arishock were trying protect the elves and are willing to kill to get what was lost.

[NaclynE]

shaneho78 wrote...

If you turn Isabela in, she'll be back in DA3 wearing a yellow jumpsuit.

*Imagines the KILL BILL SONG playing.*

"I need a bath....do you think I need a bath?"~Isabella.

[TobiTobsen]

Icy Magebane wrote...

NaclynE wrote...

laecraft wrote...

But he just refused to hand over the elves! It's the very same thing, isn't it?

The Qunari are complicated people. Especially the Tal Vashoth as Sten from Dragon Age points out. There kind of like Kligons I hate to say. Reason why I say this is no there not the same thing. The point of why the Arishock refused is because the Arishock feels he lives in a area that has no law and order and is full of eternal conflict, strife, and poor. He feels he con overthrow the current society an create one of his own design. The elves he sees are people willing to be part of the 'New World Order' for all practicality. I still think the point of the book to him was it was stolen and needs to be found but the stolen object is no differant than all the people of kirckwall which to himis a area full of ***holes that need to be 'disciplined'. Of course his methods are wrong and screwed up.

I thought the difference would be that Isabela stole the relic for personal gain, whereas the elves killed a guard because the justice system failed to avenge their sister?  What they did wasn't a crime in the eyes of the Qun.

The main problem is also that you're not Qunari. You have no right to ask anything from them, because you're not worthy enough. If he asks you for something, be happy because he blessed you with his attention. If you aks him for something you're not worthy enough, because you're Bas not Qunari.

[Andronic0s]

I liked her until this point

She was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people, coming back too late to change anything doesn't changes this, I was an inch away from turning her over but the Arishok had to pay for all the dead Kirkwallers so she got to live another day

[Kaiser Shepard]

Well wrote...

Qilune wrote...

He's honorable. He reminds me of Sten, whom I loved as a companion. The Arishok has a task set before him, which is to return a sacred relic of his people, stolen by human thieves, who are hidden away in human lands. He doesn't trust the humans, because he sees nothing respectable about them, which is often reinforced by those who are supposed to be the best of them, like members of the chantry or the templars or the city guard.

While he is a big jerk for throwing a fit and deciding to rampage the streets and cut off that useless Viscount's head off, I'd much rather have this guy thrown at that festering wasteland called "The Tevinter Imperium" Instead, I had to slice his head off, ending a great man, because there wasn't a grey area dialogue option so I could keep the only companion who uses dual weapons, the Arishok grudgingly leaves with the book and no Isabela, and everyone's happy.

This game doesn't do "and everyone's happy" very well.

I disagree but that is my opinion.I don't find a sneak attack as being honorable.As far as Sten.I never used him.I left him to the darkspawn.I would not take a child killer in my party.My option.How others play their game is theirs.

Sneak attack? The Arishok and his men merely hit the city quick and hard; in order for their coup to work, it needed to be clear as day who was stronger.

[Urazz]

Darth Krytie wrote...

I always end up refusing because her Act III quest is the only way to get Ambrosia. And you need that to make the Elixer of Heroism. So, for that, it's worth it. If not for that, I'd give her up because I never use her outside her quests and getting enough points for her to stay.

Nah, go ahead and do the quest.  Just kill Castillon instead of letting her deal with him and trading the evidence for the ship.  You can use the charm/sarcastic option where you basically say it's payback for the whole relic thing if I recall.

[Bmeszaros]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I tried it just to see what would happen but didn't actually keep it. I found it unsatisfying. Not because of Isabela (she escapes the quinari and steals the book again, which is just hysterical.)

But because the second the Viscount's head went rolling down the stairs, there was no way I was letting the Arishok leave that room breathing. Any sympathy I had for him was gone.

Saving the girl and dueling the Arishok is the most satisfying route to go overall I felt.

Isabela deserved to be turned in and sent back with the Qunari, but I absolutely agree about the Viscount. In fact, once that happens, as far as I'm concerned, no Qunari deserves to walk out of there. I refuse the duel and kill them all.

Thats why I'm kinda miffed at myself that I probably will never see what happens, firsthand, when I hand Isabela over, because, essentially, its too late for that.

The fact that she escapes three days later just shows that the story was written for you to never turn her over because your so mad about the what the Arishok as done.

Modifié par Bmeszaros, 04 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[sheppard7]

I just thought to build up to a great fight and it ends with Hawke turning in Isabela and a walk off was just a "why bother?" ending to the act.

[Bmeszaros]

sheppard7 wrote...

I just thought to build up to a great fight and it ends with Hawke turning in Isabela and a walk off was just a "why bother?" ending to the act.

It certainly struck me as one of the unecessary decisions that were in the game. Especially since she ends up escaping from them anyways.

[Beerfish]

The Arishok is one of the most totally incompetent and idiotic characters in the whole story. He constantly and utterly fails in his tasks, is a massive hypocrite at every turn and still maintains his snark to everyone not of the Qun. Him being the Arishok shows a total failure in the Qun society as though he is a great warrior and very powerful fighter he's just terrible at anything else he puts his hand too, they really blew it when they slotted him into a role of leadership.

[The Angry One]

I'm starting to think that the relic itself is worthless, and the Arigena and Ariqun sent the Arishok on this task knowing he'd lose the book and be compelled to not return until he has it in order to get rid of him so they could justifiably find a replacement.

(Realise that even if you hand over Isabela and he lives, since he loses the book AGAIN, he STILL can't return).

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm starting to think that the relic itself is worthless, and the Arigena and Ariqun sent the Arishok on this task knowing he'd lose the book and be compelled to not return until he has it in order to get rid of him so they could justifiably find a replacement.

(Realise that even if you hand over Isabela and he lives, since he loses the book AGAIN, he STILL can't return).

The female Qunari are taking over, while the male Arishok is forced to sit around in Kirkwall? The Qunari are going to be the Drow of Dragon Age

[Orion34]

Out of all the bone head moves some of your companions make,I felt this one was the worst (with Anders in a VERY CLOSE second place). The Qunari ended up losing a ship forcing them to stay docked for years,which also caused a ton of tension in the city. Then when they finally snap (and rightfully so) it causes so many deaths for both sides. All because Isabela just made one foolish,selfish move after another. I found it somewhat honorable that she ended up returning,however,I turned her over. Then she has the nerve to be angry with me for doing so instead of taking responsibility for her actions.

I hope she stays true to her word and that I haven't "seen the last of her". Maybe a good shield bash from me would knock some sense into her....Dumb wench <_<

[The Angry One]

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I'm starting to think that the relic itself is worthless, and the Arigena and Ariqun sent the Arishok on this task knowing he'd lose the book and be compelled to not return until he has it in order to get rid of him so they could justifiably find a replacement.

(Realise that even if you hand over Isabela and he lives, since he loses the book AGAIN, he STILL can't return).

The female Qunari are taking over, while the male Arishok is forced to sit around in Kirkwall? The Qunari are going to be the Drow of Dragon Age

Possibly.
Though I'm almost certain they're doing it this way to make our Sten the Arishok in DA3.
There is no possible outcome in DA2 where this Arishok returns home, in DA3 he'll either be dead or perhaps so riddled by failure he sawed off his horns and become Tal-Vashoth.

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I'm starting to think that the relic itself is worthless, and the Arigena and Ariqun sent the Arishok on this task knowing he'd lose the book and be compelled to not return until he has it in order to get rid of him so they could justifiably find a replacement.

(Realise that even if you hand over Isabela and he lives, since he loses the book AGAIN, he STILL can't return).

The female Qunari are taking over, while the male Arishok is forced to sit around in Kirkwall? The Qunari are going to be the Drow of Dragon Age

Possibly.
Though I'm almost certain they're doing it this way to make our Sten the Arishok in DA3.
There is no possible outcome in DA2 where this Arishok returns home, in DA3 he'll either be dead or perhaps so riddled by failure he sawed off his horns and become Tal-Vashoth.

Thought that too. Sten, leader of the whole Qunari military. The first question he will ask as the Arishok: "Which country makes the most delicious cookies, has the most beautiful paintings and has the most adorable puppies"  I'm pretty sure the answer will be Orlais. 
Everything comes together. Sandal goes to Orlais, Sten and the Qunari attack it because of the cookies and we will start in DA3 as the apprentice of the last free confectioner in Val Royeaux.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 04 avril 2011 - 03:42 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Orion34 wrote...

Out of all the bone head moves some of your companions make,I felt this one was the worst (with Anders in a VERY CLOSE second place). The Qunari ended up losing a ship forcing them to stay docked for years,which also caused a ton of tension in the city. Then when they finally snap (and rightfully so) it causes so many deaths for both sides. All because Isabela just made one foolish,selfish move after another. I found it somewhat honorable that she ended up returning,however,I turned her over. Then she has the nerve to be angry with me for doing so instead of taking responsibility for her actions.

I disagree. Anders was absolutely the worst because he did it purposely and willingly with full knowledge of the consequences. Isabela on the other hand got into this spot because she did the right thing freeing a ship full of slaves and got stuck having to steal the relic to get the price off her head. She returns because of another unfortunate bit of concscience.

By turning her in, you prove her right: That nothing good ever comes out of doing the right thing. Because every time she does so, it bites her in the arse. She's more angry at herself at that point for believing in you.

[The Angry One]

"And lo in 9:40 Dragon the Arishok stormed the finest cake shop in Orlais but found they were all out of cake. On that day, Val Royeux burned."

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

"And lo in 9:40 Dragon the Arishok stormed the finest cake shop in Orlais but found they were all out of cake. On that day, Val Royeux burned."

"The only thing he found was a message written with icing: 'The cake is a lie'"

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 04 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[Icy Magebane]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Orion34 wrote...

Out of all the bone head moves some of your companions make,I felt this one was the worst (with Anders in a VERY CLOSE second place). The Qunari ended up losing a ship forcing them to stay docked for years,which also caused a ton of tension in the city. Then when they finally snap (and rightfully so) it causes so many deaths for both sides. All because Isabela just made one foolish,selfish move after another. I found it somewhat honorable that she ended up returning,however,I turned her over. Then she has the nerve to be angry with me for doing so instead of taking responsibility for her actions.

I disagree. Anders was absolutely the worst because he did it purposely and willingly with full knowledge of the consequences. Isabela on the other hand got into this spot because she did the right thing freeing a ship full of slaves and got stuck having to steal the relic to get the price off her head. She returns because of another unfortunate bit of concscience.

By turning her in, you prove her right: That nothing good ever comes out of doing the right thing. Because every time she does so, it bites her in the arse. She's more angry at herself at that point for believing in you.

That's kind of ridiculous... you're basically saying that by owning your mistakes, you should be absolved of guilt?  As long as you say "I'm sorry," then that should be the end of it?  Come on... she put all of Kirkwall at risk, and the result was war with a race that had no previous interest in the city.  Letting her walk free is fine if that's how you want to do it, but don't blame Hawke for doing the right thing and sending her off to her punishment.

If she had done the "right" thing in the first place, punishment wouldn't have been part of the discussion.

Also, Hawke has fought all kinds of creatures, but she can't trust his combat skill enough to tell the truth and let him deal with her problem?  Castillon isn't that scary compared to the giant spider in the Deep Roads.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 04 avril 2011 - 03:53 .