275 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkest Dreamer]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Of course.. MOM.

By the way, "not so anon" does the overwhelming support mean we'll see a registered post next?

I'm joking of course, no pressure.

[Akka le Vil]

not so anon wrote...

So I guess what I'm trying to say is... please, BioWare, keep on doing what you have been doing. Keep making choices like you made in Dragon Age 2, and hopefully will make in Dragon Age 3. Make queer friendly games. Include romance options for all of your fans, and not just those in the majority.

There is ways to include a realistic amount of disversity in a game (and even a reasonably inflated), without going all the lazy and shallow way of making everyone omnisexual, or providing JUST the calculated amount of everything for everyone.

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

Wow... You put a lot of emphasis on sexual orientation. You make it sound as if a character's entire personality (nay, very being) revolves around their orientation.

Considering the OP, I'd guess that YES, sexual orientation is a pretty big deal in personnality (not that it wasn't already obvious, but I find it ironical you wonder about this when we see how big of a point it is right in the
first post).

And yes, making things generic always waters them down - on top of making them not really believable/immersive.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 04 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Heather Cline]

I'm in agreement with the OP of this thread. I want DA franchise to keep on writing romances for all genders, orientations and what not. I'm different yes, I like girls and I'm glad that I can play a game that makes me comfortable. So many games are just the male saving the world and getting the girl. Or FPS games that have no romance options.

I like a good story and I like a good game, but it always seems that the gay/bi/trans/lesbian gamers get left out in the cold. Bioware is the first gaming company I've seen take a step in the direction with including all people not just the straight male or straight female gamer in mind. I'm glad and support this.

[Darkest Dreamer]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Considering the OP, I'd guess that YES, sexual orientation is a pretty big deal in personnality (not that it wasn't already obvious, but I find it ironical you wonder about this when we see how big of a point it is right in the
first post).

...

Are you implying that "not so anon's" personality is as deep as a single post in a gaming forum and that by this post you can tell her entire life revolves around her sexual orientation? Yeah... what's "obvious" to you is simply baffling me.

And yes, making things generic always waters them down - on top of making them not really believable/immersive.

Making one, tiny, detail which shapes a person "generic" does not make that entire person bland. Unless your life revolves around sexual orientations, of course, to the exclusion of all else such as personalities, histories, goals, etcs.

[abigger]

pics or it didn't happen



jk

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

There is ways to include a realistic amount of disversity in a game (and even a reasonably inflated), without going all the lazy and shallow way of making everyone omnisexual, or providing JUST the calculated amount of everything for everyone.

Hey, be more empathic man! Stop making those valid and well thought points about game design!

[Darkest Dreamer]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

There is ways to include a realistic amount of disversity in a game (and even a reasonably inflated), without going all the lazy and shallow way of making everyone omnisexual, or providing JUST the calculated amount of everything for everyone.

Hey, be more empathic man! Stop making those valid and well thought points about game design!

There's nothing wrong with his post so your attempt at mockery once again ends in...

[Dormiglione]

@op
I dont agree with your opinion about the game and the romances, but you have my full respect due to your great post.

[Akka le Vil]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

Are you implying that "not so anon's" personality is as deep as a single post in a gaming forum and that by this post you can tell her entire life revolves around her sexual orientation? Yeah... what's "obvious" to you is simply baffling me.

I'm saying that sexuality is something very important in a person, and that it influences and shapes a lot of one's life.

Maybe you're just unable to see this obvious fact, or maybe you're unable to get simple concepts, or maybe you're just actively looking at a pretext to be offended and play the white knight.

Making one, tiny, detail which shapes a person "generic" does not make that entire person bland. Unless your life revolves around sexual orientations, of course, to the exclusion of all else such as personalities, histories, goals, etcs.

It certainly makes them "blander" and it detracts immersion by straining the suspension of disbelief, all of which makes for a less interesting character.
The degree of "in your face" a game has is precisely made by such kind of little details, which adds up and let someone immerse him/herself in the game, either "forgetting" he's playing because he's just dragged in the game world (that's "good"), or constantly being reminded "hey it's just a game" and unable to fully enjoy the experience (that's "bad").
The lazy and shallow take on omniromance is strongly of the second sort.

[skunkdoctor]

I want to address the argument that Hawkesexuals ruin the immersiveness of the game, as I've seen that pop up a few times in this thread and the forums in general. I personally don't see that at all. See, a game like this is meant to be immersive/consistent across a single playthrough, not multiple ones. That's why you play again, to see how your choices affect the world differently. A playthrough is meant to be consistent as a single entity.
 
Now, I don't see how the changing orientations of the companions affect immersion across a single playthrough at all unless one has little imagination or is unable to suspend disbelief, strange for RPG players in a fantasy world. Personally I appreciate the option to romance whoever I want and not be shot down by someone due to the equipment I have, and if you really need to make it "believable" I just assume Hawke's force of personality is such that it attracts everyone. I find the argument that it destroys immersion either misguided or a poorly disguised excuse to cry ****** without receiving the WRATH OF GAIDER.

Modifié par skunkdoctor, 04 avril 2011 - 06:58 .

[Akka le Vil]

skunkdoctor wrote...

See, a game like this is meant to be immersive/consistent across a single playthrough, not multiple ones.

Actually...
First you're wrong, because immersion is caused by how closely you can imagine being in the game world, and if things are so obviously gamed, it makes it much harder.
And second, you're saying that seeing half of the people you know being bi doesn't stretch your suspension of disbelief ?

It's on par with seeing supposedly rare mages scouring the city by whole platoons. It's just "GAMEY IN YOUR FACE BUDDY !".

[Tirigon]

I´d like to say something, but atm I fail to write anything that wouldn´t make me seem stupid so I´ll settle for this:

Good post, OP, and congratulations to your decision!

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

There's nothing wrong with his post so your attempt at mockery once again ends in...

You should already be a moderator with that great sense of justice of yours. Or perhaps a lawyer?

To OP: Sorry for a scuffle, it was't intended to humiliate you, specifically, and it's good you've got help with your problems, even if twas unintended by developers. It's just that hawkesexuality is a hot topic here, and many people consider making biromances just for a sake of pleasing every audience mendacious as a whole.

[LooksLikeTrouble]

Isnt David Gaider that forum trolling writer whose quotes from this forum are circulating the internet and making Bioware out to look like a joke? Why would anyone write a letter to him?

[skunkdoctor]

Akka le Vil wrote...
And second, you're saying that seeing half of the people you know being bi doesn't stretch your suspension of disbelief ?

That's the problem with this argument. They aren't bi (with the exception of Isabella seemingly) unless you are talking about multiple playthroughs and not treating a playthrough as a single entity. And even then, mages blasting raiders in front of templars is a serious immersion problem, 4 people being bi or just being attracted to you because you are friggin awesome is not.

Modifié par skunkdoctor, 04 avril 2011 - 07:13 .

[Darkest Dreamer]

Akka le Vil wrote...

I'm saying that sexuality is something very important in a person, and that it influences and shapes a lot of one's life.

If they allow it but it still isn't their entire being or personality which is what the post you replied to was arguing against.

Either way, you're comparing real life, a world still swimming in homophobia, to a fictional one. One where people like not-so-anon would have put much less thought into their orientation.

Maybe you're just unable to see this obvious fact, or maybe you're unable to get simple concepts, or maybe you're just actively looking at a pretext to be offended and play the white knight.

Sorry, what're you trying to prove here, that you're right because you insult anyone who disagrees?

Yeah... no. End of argument.

It certainly makes them "blander" and it detracts immersion by straining the suspension of disbelief, all of which makes for a less interesting character.

Again, it depends on how much weight you put on orientation. As far as I an tell they don't exactly blab on about it for the entire game, only for a few brief moments. And once you've turned them down you'll never hear of it again.

They have a choice, lessen the romance options
The degree of "in your face" a game has is precisely made by such kind of little details, which adds up and let someone immerse him/herself in the game, either "forgetting" he's playing because he's just dragged in the game world (that's "good"), or constantly being reminded "hey it's just a game" and unable to fully enjoy the experience (that's "bad").
The lazy and shallow take on omniromance is strongly of the second sort.

At this point we're just of differing opinions. For more romance options, you felt that it was a big sacrifice and I hardly noticed. If you don't like it, then perhaps you could pretend the others aren't bi. It won't work for Anders but all you need to do for the others is refrain from clicking any hearts.

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

You should already be a moderator with that great sense of justice of yours. Or perhaps a lawyer?

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 04 avril 2011 - 07:15 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

4 people being bi

Templars and mages come and go (or rather die and die), while those four people stay with protagonist whole game. They are, after all, companions.

[AngelicMachinery]

All bisexual are bland, I AM ENRAGED!

[BroBear Berbil]

I don't mind homosexual romance options but I don't like all the options having a subjective sexuality. For one, it's not very believable and it also has an impact on a character's identity.

Leliana and Zevran were bisexual regardless of who you were. It was part of their character; it was part of their past and it was established.

There was demand for a gay romance with Alistair, and man crushes make sense, however Alistair wasn't gay. He can be modded to have sex with a man but he's still not gay - it's not in his character.

Then take Anders, who was pining for freedom and a "pretty girl". He gave no signs in Awakening to being attracted to men and he gives no sign in DA2 if you play a female. Is he still gay even if you play a female? It's all very confusing to me. It felt really tacked onto his character as a way to placate a subsection of a subsection that wanted to romance him.

I can't speak for Merrill because I haven't romanced her in either scenario yet.

My opinion is that Anders' heterosexuality was taken away officially the way Alistair's was taken away unofficially. Respect for sexuality goes both ways and diversity requires diversity.

[skunkdoctor]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

4 people being bi

Templars and mages come and go (or rather die and die), while those four people stay with protagonist whole game. They are, after all, companions.

 Again, not bi unless they are taken across multiple playthroughs. A playthrough is a single entity story, so they are not bi (with the exception of Isabella). They are just gay or straight depending on what sex you are. I like being able to romance any character I want, not say be stuck with isabella/Anders/whoever because of my orientation and sex. They aren't bi, you, the PC, just shape the story.

[BeljoraDien]

But... there hasn't been a gay BioWare character since Juhani in KotOR. All they're doing is half-assedly tacking on same-sex romance to an already written straight relationship. It's just yet another example of laziness and recycling; why should it be applauded?

[Arken]

A very nice letter. I guess that means all love interests must be available to both sexes otherwise Bioware will be going backwards.

[AngelicMachinery]

Can we please have a game with 2 gay love interests and 2 Bi. I mean, that's believable right, because everyone isn't bi? (Those bland ****ty bi folks are bad, bad, bad.)

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

skunkdoctor, PC does not shape a story in this game (just try to ignore some quests which your Hawke perhaps would't like to be involved in - you'r see how much unexplained running and fetching you must do because "Bartrand still needs some time to prepare expedition"), but he shapes personalities of his companions with a push of a button at the beginning.
Also, your taste for romances is curious. Certantly not all relationships end with bed so easely as they do in this game, don't you think that Bioware can do better than japanese dating sim? Apart from Aveline, hawkesexuality seems to be a force so overwhelming that it makes one doubt reality of the game.

[Statulos]

Good games, like good books, good films, good music or any form of good art has the potential to change lives: here is the confirmation.

If Dragon Age helped you overcoming the "shame" (why should you be, to begging with?) of openly living you homosexuality just like I live my heterosexuality, it proves that games are not simply (or only) entertainment.

As a male hetero living in a community with a lot of ******, bi and trans population I have no issue on non-heteros (I dislike people here, but not because of sexuality) both out there and in popular culture and media. If Bioware helps a bit with the normalization and the fact that people are people first and then the rest, good for them.