275 réponses à ce sujet

[Horus Blackheart]

This was a positive thread once, I still respect what the op was expressing even if some don't. People are people there is no need for fire and pitch forks.

[Warheadz]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

This was a positive thread once, I still respect what the op was expressing even if some don't. People are people there is no need for fire and pitch forks.

There is always a need for fire and pitchforks. If people don't get to lynch someone/some other group once in a while, they will notice that life sucks ass and become depressed.

[Alarieliia]

Good for you OP! Its nice to see something positive come out of all the flames DA2 is getting for it. You have my respect if it's worth anything. X3

[Darkest Dreamer]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

This was a positive thread once, I still respect what the op was expressing even if some don't. People are people there is no need for fire and pitch forks.

In the end the OP has generally been shown respect (even by those who disagree) with most of the arguments having been between the people responding. Unfortunately, you can't help how emotional some get when it comes to such topics. Thankfuly this one has been fairly tame.

[MrTijger]

Warheadz wrote...

There is always a need for fire and pitchforks. If people don't get to lynch someone/some other group once in a while, they will notice that life sucks ass and become depressed.

No...THEIR life sucks ass

[Warheadz]

MrTijger wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

There is always a need for fire and pitchforks. If people don't get to lynch someone/some other group once in a while, they will notice that life sucks ass and become depressed.

No...THEIR life sucks ass

Thanks for fixing, lol.

[Maleficent]

Good on ya Op,glass up to ya:)

[dannii2]

Very well said OP and good luck to you

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?

[Darkest Dreamer]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?

Well, there was that thing... with the nugs... in the Pearl... *coughs*

Modifié par Darkest Dreamer, 05 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[Kovnic]

Nice post from the OP.  I have no problem with Bioware having Gay or Bi characters in their games at all. That said, I think the way it was done in DA:O was much better than the "Everyone is sexually neutral until you decide how they swing" way of DA2. 

The whole argument for dropping companion armour was that it allowed them to have more defined iconic characters as companions. You cant have it both ways (no pun intended), as far as I am concerned, sexual orientaion is as much apart of the "Character" as the clothes they wear. It cheapens the whole character concept to leave a question like that so ambiguous.  They should have simply decided who was striaght/Bi/gay and that was that. If people wanted to romance anyone, well, there are mods for that in DA:O and I am sure there would have been for DA2.  "I should be able to romance anyone I like" is a load of crap quite frankly. You cant do that in real life, people like what they like, end of story. They should have had the balls to carry that concept through into DA2. Instead they caved and in my opinion, it left the companions "weaker" from a character perspective.

Still,  Bioware deserves credit for at least addressing openly, and allowing the options to carry out relationships that vary from the "Vanilla".  

[witchthief]

Darkest Dreamer wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?

Well, there was that thing... with the nugs... in the pearl... *coughs*

*cough* Serendipity *cough*

[catabuca]

Thank you for writing your post, not so anon. We had a discussion in another thread yesterday about the power of games and how they affect us in ways we might not expect, or even fully understand.

I see there has been lots about 'shallow' characters again. I'll post something I wrote yesterday on this topic, bolded part for emphasis (context being a discussion about how much detail is given in-game to characters and the game world in general, in relation to the complaint that there aren't longwinded declarations of characters' sexual orientations):

... I think it works well for BW to try to leave a lot unsaid, because it helps more players find something they will be able to relate to. I figure if everything was set in stone and defined in black and white with no (or little) wriggle room there will be more people who just can't relate in some way, or who can't find something they enjoy.

I guess it's a fine balance they have to strike, between defining characters that have interesting personalities, and leaving things open enough that every player of the franchise can read into a characters something that makes them gel with them. My personal view (as you know) is that, since romances undeniably are a huge part of the game for so many people (not all of course), trying to make that content as accessible as possible to as many people as possible is a great strategy. It really would be fantastic if they had the resources to be able to afford a slew of different LIs for all occasions, but since they simply can't, I can't see a better way of trying to give a little bit of something to as many players as possible, while trying to balance interesting characters and their emotional stories.

Merrill's companion arc is potentially heartbreaking, and it doesn't impact on that one way or another whether I know she likes men, women or both. Fenris' story about the fog warriors chokes me up every time, and the way his voice cracks when he leaves Hawke after their night together is astonishing -- I can't see how a declaration about his orientation before that moment would have made it any better. But that's just me. I love the characters for their emotional stories, and my Hawkes romance them as the people they are, not as a label of this orientation or that.

Modifié par catabuca, 05 avril 2011 - 03:47 .

[catabuca]

And, as I always do on threads like these, I shall give you two Gaider!quotes on the subject:

David Gaider wrote...

I'll say this much and be done with it:

For Anders and Isabela it was decided they would initiate the romance, but only if the player was showing themselves at all receptive (beyond actively flirting with them, I mean) -- in Anders' case, for instance, there's only one option (the Diplomatic one) when you speak to him that leads to this. The other two options do not. Otherwise it's up to the player to initiate.

If that's not what you're interested in, then turn him down. You may get rivalry points (you don't always), but that's not a "punishment". There are plenty of other ways to get friendship points if the Friendship path is what you're interested in. Rivalry is not a punishment-- it's an alternate follower path with its own dialogue, romance and gameplay bonuses.

Beyond that, if the concern is you might accidentally be exposed to an unwelcome sexual advance-- oh well. One would hope you'd deal with it in the same mature manner you'd do so in real life. There are numerous other times in Dragon Age where you might be confronted with uncomfortable situations, and you don't get to dictate those, either.

Fenris and Merrill don't initiate a romance with any gender, and really their sexuality is the most subjective since they don't discuss it. Regardless, why someone would be concerned about what other people might do in their playthroughs is difficult to say. If the idea that a character might be having hypothetical sex with someone of the same gender in an alternate dimension bothers you, then by all means don't continue with their romance. That's why they're optional.

In DA2 specifically, one of the strongest elements of choice in the game is your choice of relationship-- with friends, family as well as with romances--and we feel that's important to retain. That's why it's there. It's not political correctness that drives this, but an effort to provide freedom in the places we feel it's most important.

And I'll leave it at that. Enjoy.

David Gaider wrote...

I'm sorry, but just to chime in again-- how are we coming to the conclusion that the characters are either straight or gay, exactly? Considering that they don't generally discuss their sexuality with the player, the idea that their sexuality changes seems a bit bizarre when their actions don't. You can decide for yourself what they are-- that is indeed part of the point in leaving it to your interpretation-- but deciding that they are one thing or the other and calling this "not realistic" seems to me to be a little self-serving.

And, yes, they don't discuss their sexuality. Perhaps you'd prefer if they would. It strikes me that the only way some people will be happy is if we had an entire array of characters to romance-- some completely straight, some completely gay with maybe a few canonically bisexual characters for good measure. Enough to be "fair", and all of them covering the complete range of attractions for players of that persuasion.

I don't know about you, but that seems unlikely.

So as I said, we went with simply giving players the option of deciding for themselves, as well as interpreting for themselves. If some people are unhappy that they still didn't get the particular flavor they were looking for-- well, that's just too damned bad. As always, we're never going to be able to provide enough to suit everyone. At least in this case the people that don't like it can be equally unhappy, and I can live with that.

From this thread: http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

[Russalka]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?

How is this relevant at all? 

[dfstone]

I don't see anything wrong with gay storylines in games. If you're not gay, then don't play the gay storyline.  Its as simple as that.  I don't get what the big deal is. This is the 21st Century...who cares? Leave the gay people alone already. Geesh.  You can populate the whole town of Sims 3 with gay people if you want.  Nobody is making a fuss about it.  Besides if you aren't gay and you're playing a gay character in a game and then complaining about it...I think you have bigger issues to deal with.

Modifié par dfstone, 05 avril 2011 - 03:59 .

[Paragon Gabriel]

^You're saying that to the internet? Good luck

Modifié par Gabriel the First, 05 avril 2011 - 03:58 .

[randName]

A good OP, thank you for sharing.

& There are many things I don't like DA2 for, even to the point that I regret buying the game for, but one of its main redeeming factors is the romance feature they added, it alone makes the game worth buying for me if only to support this issue, and that we'll hopefully get it in ME3 as well.

[Akka le Vil]

catabuca wrote...

And, as I always do on threads like these, I shall give you two Gaider!quotes on the subject:

From this thread: http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

Rather impressive and disheartening how the whole problem of character not being as well determined and how it stretch the believability of the context when everyone is conveniently of the "right" sexual preference to fits Hawke, seems to fly high above his head...

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 05 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[Akka le Vil]

dfstone wrote...

I don't see anything wrong with gay storylines in games. If you're not gay, then don't play the gay storyline.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread complaining about the fact there is gay romances, so maybe all the self-appointed white knights should really try to at least read a thread before copy-pasting the usual "look at me I'm open-minded !!!" message when it's completely irrelevant to the actual debate. Seriously.

[dfstone]

Akka le Vil wrote...

dfstone wrote...

I don't see anything wrong with gay storylines in games. If you're not gay, then don't play the gay storyline.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread complaining about the fact there is gay romances, so maybe all the self-appointed white knights should really try to at least read a thread before copy-pasting the usual "look at me I'm open-minded !!!" message when it's completely irrelevant to the actual debate. Seriously.

Maybe you should take your own advice and read the replies in here.

[catabuca]

Akka le Vil wrote...

catabuca wrote...

And, as I always do on threads like these, I shall give you two Gaider!quotes on the subject:

From this thread: http://social.biowar...ex/6576620&lf=8

Rather impressive and disheartening how the whole problem of character not being as well determined and how it stretch the believability of the context when everyone is conveniently of the "right" sexual preference to fits Hawke, seems to fly high above his head...

Read the entire thread. His quotes weren't precisely about the debate I posted about in my earlier post. Which is why I provided the link, so you can see them in context for yourself. Rather than, well, making an uninformed comment I guess. Regardless, I think his comments get the point across very well. If you disagree, well, that's your right I suppose.

[Jamesnew2]

Happy for the OP. Bioware are the only company that have stuck with it and i respect them for that. Especially during ME1 when the adults behaved like children thanks fox. anyway I love bioware games and i feel it does help the game.

P.S Merril was probably my favourite romance out of all the bioware games with maybe the exception of bastila.

[dfstone]

The focus is on 2 people having a relationship. Gender isn't, and shouldn't, be the issue. I think thats Bioware's point. The storyline doesn't change just because its 2 men or 2 women or a man and a women. The story is about 2 personalities, the gender is irrelevant. A person's identity shouldn't be defined by what gender they are attracted to. I don't see the characters being shallow just because you can romance them as a male or female.

[Lacan2]

*applaud*

I really wish not everyone would be bisexual. It gives us more options but feels unrealistic. Some people are just wired gay or straight, not even the uber sexy Hawke can change that.

Modifié par Lacan2, 05 avril 2011 - 04:24 .