Aller au contenu

Photo

An Open Letter to David Gaider and Bioware


275 réponses à ce sujet

#201
Darkest Dreamer

Darkest Dreamer
  • Members
  • 314 messages

catabuca wrote...

Thank you for writing your post, not so anon. We had a discussion in another thread yesterday about the power of games and how they affect us in ways we might not expect, or even fully understand.

I see there has been lots about 'shallow' characters again. I'll post something I wrote yesterday on this topic, bolded part for emphasis (context being a discussion about how much detail is given in-game to characters and the game world in general, in relation to the complaint that there aren't longwinded declarations of characters' sexual orientations):

... I think it works well for BW to try to leave a lot unsaid, because it helps more players find something they will be able to relate to. I figure if everything was set in stone and defined in black and white with no (or little) wriggle room there will be more people who just can't relate in some way, or who can't find something they enjoy.

I guess it's a fine balance they have to strike, between defining characters that have interesting personalities, and leaving things open enough that every player of the franchise can read into a characters something that makes them gel with them. My personal view (as you know) is that, since romances undeniably are a huge part of the game for so many people (not all of course), trying to make that content as accessible as possible to as many people as possible is a great strategy. It really would be fantastic if they had the resources to be able to afford a slew of different LIs for all occasions, but since they simply can't, I can't see a better way of trying to give a little bit of something to as many players as possible, while trying to balance interesting characters and their emotional stories.

Merrill's companion arc is potentially heartbreaking, and it doesn't impact on that one way or another whether I know she likes men, women or both. Fenris' story about the fog warriors chokes me up every time, and the way his voice cracks when he leaves Hawke after their night together is astonishing -- I can't see how a declaration about his orientation before that moment would have made it any better. But that's just me. I love the characters for their emotional stories, and my Hawkes romance them as the people they are, not as a label of this orientation or that.


Well said Catabuca!

witchthief wrote...

*cough* Serendipity *cough*


That elf had the perfect name.

#202
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages

dfstone wrote...

The focus is on 2 people having a relationship. Gender isn't, and shouldn't, be the issue. I think thats Bioware's point. The storyline doesn't change just because its 2 men or 2 women or a man and a women. The story is about 2 personalities, the gender is irrelevant. A person's identity shouldn't be defined by what gender they are attracted to. I don't see the characters being shallow just because you can romance them as a male or female.


I completely agree.

What elements should BW write into a straight character in order to make them 'convincingly' straight?

How would Merrill explaining to me in a conversation, even though I'm not romancing her, that she is attracted to both men and women make me feel any more emotion toward her already very emotional companion arc? Would it make what can happen to her clan any more poignant? Would it have made me cry for even longer than it did anyway? I highly doubt it.

How would Fenris discussing how many men and women he's slept with previously make that moment when he leaves Hawke in act 2 any more astonishing? The way his voice cracks when he says, "I can't ... I can't" is amazingly written and amazingly delivered -- it gives us a glimpse into how difficult a relationship is for him, how painful his past still is. Why do I need him to wear a sign around his neck that says, "These are the ways in which I'm convincingly bisexual: ..." in order to feel for him as a character, in order for Hawke to fall in love with him, in order for Hawke to feel confused, hurt, sad when he leaves? I don't.

It would, indeed, be fantastic if BW could afford to give us a panoply of gay, straight and bisexual characters as romance options, but sadly that isn't possible. What is possible is to continue to write characters who have emotional backstories, conflicting motivations, and interesting companion/romance arcs, and to make that content accessible to as many players as possible in as equal a way as possible. That is what they have done in DA2, and until such a time as they have the vast resources to make multiple characters of all orientations for us, I will continue to support them in this choice, and wholeheartedly hope it's something they continue with in the future, in some way or another.

No one should underestimate how powerful it is to actually be given choice in this regard. Those same people upset at a lack of choice in regards to the main plot of DA2 would actually take the one choice that exists in the game away because they don't like it? What a crying shame.

Much love. <3

#203
Akka le Vil

Akka le Vil
  • Members
  • 1 466 messages

dfstone wrote...

Maybe you should take your own advice and read the replies in here.

Actually I did, and at most you can see a handful of post "borderline", the overwhelming majority not being so. So case in point, the white knight posture  is here just to make someone feels good about himself, nothing else.

#204
Sarethus

Sarethus
  • Members
  • 176 messages
First off I am very happy for the OP, I found her post very touching and am happy that the game helped her in her life but I disagree with t at least to how BW handled romances in DA2.

I was going to write a bit of a post but on reading this thread I honestly felt that these posters managed to write what I feel better then I could have:

Schurge wrote...

So am I allowed to come in here and say that I thought making everyone bi-sexual was a bogus decision. That the decision not only cheapened the characters but it was implemented solely because some homosexuals didn't respect the characters in Origins and created hacks that allowed you to romance anyone (to go along with the multitude of porn mods) even though the companions' sexuality was a core part of their character (in the cases of Alistair and Morrigan)?


aphelion002 wrote...

OP, your post is touching and eloquent. However, I have to disagree with you. I do not like how Bioware handled the writing of the sexuality of the characters.

I will tell you why. The way Bioware wrote it, it made it seem that the sexuality of each character was an add-on, a non-essential part of each character's personality that can be casually changed. I'm sure OP, that you will agree with me that it is not. A person's sexuality is a big, essential part of your personality. Its not a switch that you can just flip and keep everything else the same. Right now, the bisexuality of each character is not only statistically absurd (what are the chances!), but smacks to me of "artful reuse". Some characters, like Zevran and Isabella, make sense as bisexual. Some should be simply gay or straight. Modularity is great for efficient programming and maximizing profits, but not so good to paint a picture of a character - the primary focus of an RPG.



#205
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages
I'm still unsure of how hearing about Merrill's sexual orientation would have helped me empathise with her as a character any more during her act 3 companion quest. Or how Fenris wandering around talking about which gender he prefers would make me feel any more attached to his incredibly sad and emotional story. In fact, it is part of Fenris' character to be distant in matters of the heart — his reaction after your love scene with him in act 2 is testament to that ... it would be terribly odd for his character to suddenly feel the need to tell me he's always found men and women attractive purely in order to be able to say, "hey guys, we clarified Fen's orientation for you", when he doesn't talk about that stuff more generally.

I honestly am confused as to how a declaration of some sort, from any of the characters, would give more weight to the rest of the dialogue and companion quests and love scenes in the game. Apart from, and I will concede the point here, Anders, since it would have been very touching for him to have told fHawke about his relationship with Karl, even though I am happy to believe reasoning behind why he didn't that I've outlined in previous posts.

#206
Akka le Vil

Akka le Vil
  • Members
  • 1 466 messages
Guess it's just too subtle for you then.

#207
Lotion Soronarr

Lotion Soronarr
  • Members
  • 14 481 messages

Russalka wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?


How is this relevant at all? 


Should one minority be any more important than another?
Should one type of sexual tastes be more important than another?
Hypotheticly speaking of course....

#208
Russalka

Russalka
  • Members
  • 3 867 messages
What do you have in mind?

#209
randName

randName
  • Members
  • 1 570 messages

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wonder if Bio will support more....erm..outlandish sexual tastes too?


How is this relevant at all? 


Should one minority be any more important than another?
Should one type of sexual tastes be more important than another?
Hypotheticly speaking of course....


Yes, or not everything is of equal worth; esp. nor worth spending equal amount of time on ~ or I would place any sexual orientation that isn't consensual as lower in worth than consensual sexual orientations and so on; or when it comes to time constraints just one that gives less pleasure for the time they need to implement it.

The later isn't to say that it's less valued in it self, just less worth spending time implementing since it will reach less people that would find it of interest.

I would like to see some polygamy again after Jade Empire, but in the end what ever feels right feels right for the writers, and what fits into the world and story goes for me; or I had no problem that there were no romances for my female Sheppard in ME2 outside Kelly and the Asari's, and each of these should be called encounters more than
romances.

Besides I noticed the shemale over at the blooming rose, and I heard tales of Nugs as well.

But the idea that each are equal, and every behavior is as valued equaly, is something I would object to; all while saying that most sexual orientations or minorities, esp. all those that are consensual, or done on your own I have no actual objection to.

That said it would be refreshing if there were only one or two outlandish romances in the next DA game, and nothing else, say a Femdom romance for the male protagonist, and maybe a bi-sexual transexual female dwarf (as in dressed like a male dwarf, with a fake beard and all), and it would be comical if the Maker turns out to be a black lesbian ~

Modifié par randName, 05 avril 2011 - 06:41 .


#210
TOBY FLENDERSON

TOBY FLENDERSON
  • Members
  • 965 messages
With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.

Basicly they need to make people again instead of glorified blowup dolls.

Modifié par TOBY FLENDERSON, 05 avril 2011 - 06:47 .


#211
Russalka

Russalka
  • Members
  • 3 867 messages
Why doesn't heterosexuality need a back story or reasoning then?

It was explained enough why Anders was not so keen on opening up on things in Awakening and why he is now. Others did not really need any explanation, they were as they were. Why make it into a problem?

Modifié par Russalka, 05 avril 2011 - 06:50 .


#212
Spatchmo

Spatchmo
  • Members
  • 389 messages

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.

Basicly they need to make people again instead of glorified blowup dolls.

I don't think people really need a reason or a backstory behind their sexuality. In this way, sexuality is far more simple than that.

#213
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.


Ah, so one must have a 'reason' for being gay or bisexual?

And that 'reason' should be along the lines of being somehow coerced into it, or persuaded into it, or by being of loose morals?

Right.

I guess you'd also like BW to have written into the game the reasons for Aveline having chosen to marry a guy instead of hook up with a women, right? I mean, she appears to be straight (although she never says she doesn't like women too, so I guess you can believe what you want), but how are we to believe that as a real, deep, and genuine part of her personality unless it's given a reason? Unless she talks about it with us? Unless she explains where her orientation came from?

Are you straight, honey? Please, tell me the reasons why, so I can judge whether it's consistent with your character.

#214
randName

randName
  • Members
  • 1 570 messages

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.

Basicly they need to make people again instead of glorified blowup dolls.


Only Anders and Isbela will initate flirting with you, both Fenris and Merrill are passive. Anyone without any interest in for a homosexual option, or a hetrosexual one, only have to care about either turning down Isabela or Anders.

& Outside Isabela the rest are either hetro, or homosexual, and do not express any bisexuality; not that Fenris or Merrill will express anything unless you initate it.

& Fenris is just fanservice, so are many other aspects of the game; and arguing that this, that Anders or Isabela will flirt with you is just tragic in my mind. 

& as pointed out you don't need a backstory to explain homosexuality or hetrosexuality.

Modifié par randName, 05 avril 2011 - 06:54 .


#215
AngelicMachinery

AngelicMachinery
  • Members
  • 4 300 messages

catabuca wrote...

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.


Ah, so one must have a 'reason' for being gay or bisexual?

And that 'reason' should be along the lines of being somehow coerced into it, or persuaded into it, or by being of loose morals?

Right.

I guess you'd also like BW to have written into the game the reasons for Aveline having chosen to marry a guy instead of hook up with a women, right? I mean, she appears to be straight (although she never says she doesn't like women too, so I guess you can believe what you want), but how are we to believe that as a real, deep, and genuine part of her personality unless it's given a reason? Unless she talks about it with us? Unless she explains where her orientation came from?

Are you straight, honey? Please, tell me the reasons why, so I can judge whether it's consistent with your character.


You are absolutely awesome.  :wub:

#216
bzombo

bzombo
  • Members
  • 1 761 messages
first, not so anon, good for you coming out and embracing who you are. as a straight man, it's not something that is easy for me to understand, but i'm glad you've gotten to the place in your life that you're at. i'm unsure exactly how you want romances done. strict gay or straight? more like da2? i support having gay and straight romances in DA, but i prefer where at least most of the characters are either straight or gay. i think it allows for the interactions to be deeper.

#217
Maugrim

Maugrim
  • Members
  • 3 639 messages
:ph34r:[inappropriate comments removed]:ph34r:

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 05 avril 2011 - 07:20 .


#218
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages

bzombo wrote...

first, not so anon, good for you coming out and embracing who you are. as a straight man, it's not something that is easy for me to understand, but i'm glad you've gotten to the place in your life that you're at. i'm unsure exactly how you want romances done. strict gay or straight? more like da2? i support having gay and straight romances in DA, but i prefer where at least most of the characters are either straight or gay. i think it allows for the interactions to be deeper.


Bisexuals are people too D:

#219
AngelicMachinery

AngelicMachinery
  • Members
  • 4 300 messages

catabuca wrote...

bzombo wrote...

first, not so anon, good for you coming out and embracing who you are. as a straight man, it's not something that is easy for me to understand, but i'm glad you've gotten to the place in your life that you're at. i'm unsure exactly how you want romances done. strict gay or straight? more like da2? i support having gay and straight romances in DA, but i prefer where at least most of the characters are either straight or gay. i think it allows for the interactions to be deeper.


Bisexuals are people too D:


Indeed,  the bi hate on these forums makes me very sad.

#220
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages

AngelicMachinery wrote...

catabuca wrote...

bzombo wrote...

first, not so anon, good for you coming out and embracing who you are. as a straight man, it's not something that is easy for me to understand, but i'm glad you've gotten to the place in your life that you're at. i'm unsure exactly how you want romances done. strict gay or straight? more like da2? i support having gay and straight romances in DA, but i prefer where at least most of the characters are either straight or gay. i think it allows for the interactions to be deeper.


Bisexuals are people too D:


Indeed,  the bi hate on these forums makes me very sad.


I don't think that was bi hate, if I'm honest. Just a muddled argument along the lines of 'orientation should be defined' (which I obviously don't agree with, but there you go).

Modifié par catabuca, 05 avril 2011 - 07:11 .


#221
bzombo

bzombo
  • Members
  • 1 761 messages

catabuca wrote...

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

With all due respect the problem most people are having with the LI's is that making them all bisexual with no real backstory or reasoning to do so other than it makes the story easier. Its easier and lazy because they don't need to write reasonings or even character profiles like they did with Leliana and Zevran in Origins. You know the whole Zevran grew up in a brothel so was a pleasure seeking personality while Leliana was taken under the power and influence of a strong woman and mother figure who used her to appease her own sexual proclivities. But in DA2 there is no reference to reasoning its blatant fan service which sacrifices story telling and character coherence. Which is ridiculous since they could have easily have only made one LI bisexual, since it was already done in Origins for Isabella, and they could have easily given Fenris similar reasoning and backstory as Zevran or Leliana. It's just bad writing and hopefully in DA3 story and character coherence will come before fans service. Also should be noted that ME1 and 2 worked fine and was loved for its story and well written romances, just see Jack crying, with only one bisexual option because it put story first.


Ah, so one must have a 'reason' for being gay or bisexual?

And that 'reason' should be along the lines of being somehow coerced into it, or persuaded into it, or by being of loose morals?

Right.

I guess you'd also like BW to have written into the game the reasons for Aveline having chosen to marry a guy instead of hook up with a women, right? I mean, she appears to be straight (although she never says she doesn't like women too, so I guess you can believe what you want), but how are we to believe that as a real, deep, and genuine part of her personality unless it's given a reason? Unless she talks about it with us? Unless she explains where her orientation came from?

Are you straight, honey? Please, tell me the reasons why, so I can judge whether it's consistent with your character.

hmmm.....i see where you're going, but i think the main idea is that the majority of npcs should have an identity. some straight, some gay, and if there's a character or two that is bisexual, then that is fine too. why does every npc need to be written for both gay and straight pcs? does a gay npc need a special story to explain how they "became gay"? no. we agree on that. it does, however, weaken the character interaction when every npc can be anything. there's no consistency. i guess it comes down to taste, but i think if most npcs have specific sexual identities it would allow for deeper interaction and a more realistic interaction. both gay and straight people in real life meet other people that they can't "romance", so to speak. i think it adds more to the game if the npcs reflect that as well.

#222
bzombo

bzombo
  • Members
  • 1 761 messages

AngelicMachinery wrote...

catabuca wrote...

bzombo wrote...

first, not so anon, good for you coming out and embracing who you are. as a straight man, it's not something that is easy for me to understand, but i'm glad you've gotten to the place in your life that you're at. i'm unsure exactly how you want romances done. strict gay or straight? more like da2? i support having gay and straight romances in DA, but i prefer where at least most of the characters are either straight or gay. i think it allows for the interactions to be deeper.


Bisexuals are people too D:


Indeed,  the bi hate on these forums makes me very sad.

definitely not bi hate. i think bisexual characters should be in the game as well. my point was that if every npc can be straight or gay it lessens the impact. having characters specifically bisexual also allows for those characters to be reflected that way, such as leliana and zevran. they we bisexual and you knew that. they didn't magically become whatever meshes best with your pc. they truly were bisexual, and that's the point i am trying to make. maybe not very eloquently, but that's what i'm getting at.

#223
jlb524

jlb524
  • Members
  • 19 954 messages
It's interesting that Leliana is brought up as an example of the obvious and 'static' bisexual from a DA game.

I only played the game as a female and that woman showed zero interest in men beyond sleeping with them in the past as part of her job. On the other hand, there were a few instances where she showed an obvious sexual and romantic attraction to women.  I think I would be justified in believing she was a full on lady lovin lesbian gal.

Modifié par jlb524, 05 avril 2011 - 07:25 .


#224
bzombo

bzombo
  • Members
  • 1 761 messages

jlb524 wrote...

It's interesting that Leliana is brought up as an example of the obvious and 'static' bisexual from a DA game.

I only played the game as a female and that woman showed zero interest in men beyond sleeping with them in the past as part of her job. On the other hand, there were a few instances where she showed an obvious sexual and romantic attraction to women.  I think I would be justified in believing she was a full on lady lovin lesbian gal.

Can't speak for your experience, but she always seemed to me to be genuinely interested in both sexes.

#225
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages

bzombo wrote...

hmmm.....i see where you're going, but i think the main idea is that the majority of npcs should have an identity. some straight, some gay, and if there's a character or two that is bisexual, then that is fine too. why does every npc need to be written for both gay and straight pcs? does a gay npc need a special story to explain how they "became gay"? no. we agree on that. it does, however, weaken the character interaction when every npc can be anything. there's no consistency. i guess it comes down to taste, but i think if most npcs have specific sexual identities it would allow for deeper interaction and a more realistic interaction. both gay and straight people in real life meet other people that they can't "romance", so to speak. i think it adds more to the game if the npcs reflect that as well.


I'm just going to quote myself from up the page, honestly sorry, but I've typed this same thing out so many times now I'm sending myself crazy :P

I wrote...

What elements should BW write into a straight character in order to make them 'convincingly' straight?

How
would Merrill explaining to me in a conversation, even though I'm not
romancing her, that she is attracted to both men and women make me feel
any more emotion toward her already very emotional companion arc? Would
it make what can happen to her clan any more poignant? Would it have
made me cry for even longer than it did anyway? I highly doubt it.

How
would Fenris discussing how many men and women he's slept with
previously make that moment when he leaves Hawke in act 2 any more
astonishing? The way his voice cracks when he says, "I can't ... I
can't" is amazingly written and amazingly delivered -- it gives us a
glimpse into how difficult a relationship is for him, how painful his
past still is. Why do I need him to wear a sign around his neck that
says, "These are the ways in which I'm convincingly bisexual: ..." in
order to feel for him as a character, in order for Hawke to fall in love
with him, in order for Hawke to feel confused, hurt, sad when he
leaves? I don't.

It would, indeed, be fantastic if BW could
afford to give us a panoply of gay, straight and bisexual characters as
romance options, but sadly that isn't possible. What is possible is to
continue to write characters who have emotional backstories, conflicting
motivations, and interesting companion/romance arcs, and to make that
content accessible to as many players as possible in as equal a way as
possible. That is what they have done in DA2, and until such a time as
they have the vast resources to make multiple characters of all
orientations for us, I will continue to support them in this choice, and
wholeheartedly hope it's something they continue with in the future, in
some way or another.

No one should underestimate how powerful it is to actually be given choice
in this regard. Those same people upset at a lack of choice in regards
to the main plot of DA2 would actually take the one choice that exists
in the game away because they don't like it? What a crying shame.



My point being, I have no idea how any of the characters having a conversation with me about which genitalia they prefer would a) make their characters more realistic; B) deepen my interactions with them -- for the reasons I outline above. What is more, you DO meet characters you can't romance -- Varric, Aveline, etc. So that argument is out of the window.

I have no problem with people wishing Anders mentioned Karl to fHawke, I have no problem with people wishing a character did mention their sexuality -- really, no problem. What I *do* have a problem with is the way a lack of talking about it is taken to mean they aren't 'real' characters, that you can't interact with them on a meaningful level *unless* they tell you which way they swing first.

For me it is enough that Fenris chuckles when I say saucy things to him -- he clearly likes me, and that's awesome. For me it's enough that Anders thinks I'm a 'rare man indeed' (in fact, that line made me chuckle, considering the other meaning of 'rare') -- he clearly likes me, and that's awesome. Yes, sure, it's nice that Anders tells me about Karl, and it's nice that he says he loves a whole person -- but if he hadn't have said that, I would have still felt the same way about him when he rages against his inner demons, when he says he doesn't know whether to kiss me or kill me, when he passionately reads out his manifesto to me, and so on. There is SO MUCH in all of these characters that draws you close to them, that creates an emotional bond with them (although I'm the first to say I dearly hope BW decides to add additional companion interaction in their next game), that a declaration of sexual preference wouldn't have made them feel any more real, or made me feel any closer to them during their companion arcs.