184 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Lisa_H wrote...

I agree there are some bad moments that I believe could have been handled better. The fighting just when Hawke and family arrive in Kirkwall, and the fight when they meet Cullen are the scenes I think about most. Of course this is not only if you play a mage. You can bring Bethany with you in both these scenes and nobody seems to notice that she casts fireballs. Otherwise beside from these scenes and the few fights that take place in the city in daylight (Most fights however takes place in the night or indoors, and most people that could report Hawke/Bethany/Anders/Merrill end up dead) I think it work quite good. First year you have have smugglars/mercenaries to protect you, and then during the first act it is mentioned several times they are under templar scrutiny, and that is one main reason they struggle so hard to set up a respectable facade.
And there are quite a lot of people who notice Hakw is a mage like Fenris and Grace. Click on Cullen enough times in the Gallows and he mentions that there are disturbing rumors about Hawke, and that he hopes they are not true. He says something similar about Bethany, if you play as a non-mage. And if you bring Carver along he complains almost evertime you try to talk with a templar. Meredith notices that Hawke is a mage the first time they meet and had it not been for Hawke being named Champion she probably would have dragged Hawke to the Gallows the moment after the battle was over. WhenHakwe is the champion she actually threaten to lock her up if she don't work with her.
Had Cullen been knocked out by the possesed templar right before the battle, and the city guard had something about how he wouldn't turn Hakwe in because she helped him I would have had no problems at all, because I still think there are quite many references to Hawke being a mage.

I agree with this but especially the bolded. Cullen really should've said...something to the mage flinging magic in hsi face. 

[Ryzaki]

tmp7704 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Wynne said nothing about Fereldan in that statement. 

She says she's accepted position to advise the ruler of Ferelden and right in the same sentence that there's been no such advisors to "the throne" in the long time. What else would she be supposed to speak of?

Ugh. I hate BW and their lore sometimes because they do things like this and don't bother expanding on it. 

Mage's can't hold titles (supposedly). Tis the reason Alistair won't marry a mage. So why the hell can Wynne be an advisor, the mage Warden a chancellor? 

[KJandrew]

Hawke being an important member of society in act 2 shouldn't be saving him. It didn't save the Amell line before when they were in much better standing than Hawke is

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea how Cullen acted is so consistent with him being tortured to near madness by mages.
It's just laziness. Sure breaking immersion always happens and is sometimes necessary, but when it becomes this unsubtle with no effort to alleviate it, it's just lazy and annoying.

[Ryzaki]

KJandrew wrote...
Except it that the fact that the circle has been around longer than Fereldan has been a Kingdom

I do wonder how long as the Circle been in Fereldan.

KJandrew wrote...

Hawke being an important member of society in act 2 shouldn't be saving him. It didn't save the Amell line before when they were in much better standing than Hawke is

They had the Vicount desperately needing them to keep the city for tearing itself apart? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 avril 2011 - 04:57 .

[Spartansfan8888]

Best explanation I can come up with is that you are low on Meredith's reports until around Act 2 but at that point you are wealthy and shortly after you meet her you become champion so she can't touch you without significant opposition.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Except it that the fact that the circle has been around longer than Fereldan has been a Kingdom

I do wonder how long as the Circle been in Fereldan? 

As an institution or as a building?

The tower I think was built by the Tevinter Imperium, because the area had natural magical properties.
As an institution, we know that the Circle was there  at the time of Calenhad's creation of the kingdom.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 avril 2011 - 04:58 .

[KJandrew]

Ryzaki wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Except it that the fact that the circle has been around longer than Fereldan has been a Kingdom

I do wonder how long as the Circle been in Fereldan? 

As long as the chantry has been about i assume. Anyway the Codex states that Calenhad got his armour from the Circle

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea how Cullen acted is so consistent with him being tortured to near madness by mages.
It's just laziness. Sure breaking immersion always happens and is sometimes necessary, but when it becomes this unsubtle with no effort to alleviate it, it's just lazy and annoying.

Agreed.  At the very least after the battle where you save Knight Captain Cullen, he should have said something like. "Wonderful....another apostate!" (pause)  "For saving my life and if you help the Order with our recruits, I am going to 'forget' that you are an apostate but only just this once.  Please consider going to the circle for everyone's safety."

That would be thin but at least address the supposed game-reality.

-Polaris

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
As an institution or as a building? 

The tower I think was built by the Tevinter Imperium, because it had natural magical properties.
As an insitution, we know that the Circle was there  at the time of Calenhad's creation of the kingdom.

So from the beginning then. 

That does make the "free the mages" ending a bit more interesting. 

I wish you weren't restricted to being a mage to ask for that boon.  


Anyways the real answer to the OP is because it's a game and that BW didn't want anyone to feel restricted.

And taking out the mage class isn't an answer becuase to me the latter half of the game makes no sense unless I'm a mage (because why the hell am I staying in that ****hole unless Meredith has something over my head?) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 avril 2011 - 05:00 .

[Lisa_H]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I'll never forget my character saying something like: "Meredith is just dying to slap me in the Circle". I said to myself, "No she's not. She's not going to do jack. So keep on keeping on."

I never got this line. When does Hawke say this?

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mage's can't hold titles (supposedly). Tis the reason Alistair won't marry a mage. So why the hell can Wynne be an advisor, the mage Warden a chancellor? 

I think (but that's only a guess) the mages aren't allowed to hold titles which are tied to owning land/property and/or having people swear allegiance to them. So that's why Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe when he turns out to be a mage, but something like advisor or chancellor is acceptable.

Modifié par tmp7704, 04 avril 2011 - 05:00 .

[TobiTobsen]

IanPolaris wrote...

Harboring Apostates is interfering with Chantry business.  Just ask Meridith or even the new improved magic-hating Lelianna.  I actually think we are in basic agreement.  King Alistair (or Queen Anora) doesn't have the ability/power to actually kick the Templars out of Fereldan completely (pre-mage war) and make it stick.  However, he CAN strip chantry oversight of mages outside the circle which apparently he has done.  At least that's my take.

-Polaris

Ah, okay. Than we agree on that. Poor Greagoir. He was just doing his job (in a good, non-Kirkwall way) and now he is getting bullied by Alistair.

Ryzaki wrote...

Wesley's a damn idiot. All templars don't have to necessarily be idiots.

In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king it seems. Even if he is a Idiot, he is the only templar that's doing his damn job . Why exactly is Cullen Knight-Captain again?

"Was that a fireball?"
"No"
"Oh, okay. My mistake then!"

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 04 avril 2011 - 05:00 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Except it that the fact that the circle has been around longer than Fereldan has been a Kingdom

I do wonder how long as the Circle been in Fereldan? 

As an institution or as a building?

The tower I think was built by the Tevinter Imperium, because the area had natural magical properties.
As an institution, we know that the Circle was there  at the time of Calenhad's creation of the kingdom.

Actually it's even older than that.  If you read the codex entry during the Circle Tower quest, the actual physical Circle Tower in Lake Calenhad was built by the Avvars more than a thousand years ago before they were conquered by the Imperium.

-Polaris

[Abispa]

One easy fix that wouldn't have fixed everything, but would've helped, would be to demonstrate that is was common for the mages of noble families to get preferential treatment. There are some allusions to this being the case, Bethany even said she could hide behind a title and the original serial killer suspect was a noble mage, but having a scene where Cullen or Meredith bitterly complain that they wished they had more authority to pursue mages hiding in noble families would've help. And maybe a scene where noble mages flaunt their preferred status and/or poor mages grumbling that it isn't fair that they get to be Meredith's whipping boys.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mage's can't hold titles (supposedly). Tis the reason Alistair won't marry a mage. So why the hell can Wynne be an advisor, the mage Warden a chancellor? 

I think (but that's only a guess) the mages aren't allowed to hold titles which are tied to owning land/property and/or having people swear allegiance to them. So that's why Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe when he turns out to be a mage, but something like advisor or chancellor is acceptable.

Yea we even have the Orlesian mage advisor in Stolen Throne.

Chancellorship in Ferelden is not necessarily tied to the nobility (I presume). And the Ternir of Gwaren ws given to a peasant who saved Ferelden, so it could be feasible that they would give it to a mage Warden.

So yea I don't think it's that farfetched. But I would expect the Chantry and others to be uneasy about it. We've seen in TST that the relation between the Chantry mother and the Orlesian mage were confrontational.

[KJandrew]

Abispa wrote...

One easy fix that wouldn't have fixed everything, but would've helped, would be to demonstrate that is was common for the mages of noble families to get preferential treatment. There are some allusions to this being the case, Bethany even said she could hide behind a title and the original serial killer suspect was a noble mage, but having a scene where Cullen or Meredith bitterly complain that they wished they had more authority to pursue mages hiding in noble families would've help. And maybe a scene where noble mages flaunt their preferred status and/or poor mages grumbling that it isn't fair that they get to be Meredith's whipping boys.

Noble families aren't given preferential treatment. The Amell family was in liine to become the Viscounts but they were ruined because one child was born with magic

[Ryzaki]

TobiTobsen wrote...
In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king it seems. Even if he is a Idiot, he is the only templar that's doing his damn job . Why exactly is Cullen Knight-Captain again?

"Was that a fireball?"
"No"
"Oh, okay. My mistake then!"

Yeah a job that would've gotten him and Aveline killed if he had done it. You think they would've been able to take that Ogre down? Or that Flemeth would've saved the two of them? 

As for Cullen. I'm still upset that he's not still crazy from origins.   

I miss crazy running around hunting down mages Cullen. 

tmp7704 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mage's can't hold titles (supposedly). Tis the reason Alistair won't marry a mage. So why the hell can Wynne be an advisor, the mage Warden a chancellor? 

I think (but that's only a guess) the mages aren't allowed to hold titles which are tied to owning land/property and/or having people swear allegiance to them. So that's why Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe when he turns out to be a mage, but something like advisor or chancellor is acceptable.

...That's...odd. Why would it be like that? 

And really lame. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 avril 2011 - 05:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

KJandrew wrote...
Except it that the fact that the circle has been around longer than Fereldan has been a Kingdom

I do wonder how long as the Circle been in Fereldan? 

As an institution or as a building?

The tower I think was built by the Tevinter Imperium, because the area had natural magical properties.
As an institution, we know that the Circle was there  at the time of Calenhad's creation of the kingdom.

Actually it's even older than that.  If you read the codex entry during the Circle Tower quest, the actual physical Circle Tower in Lake Calenhad was built by the Avvars more than a thousand years ago before they were conquered by the Imperium.

-Polaris

Yes, now I remember, you're right.

I wonder why the Avvars built it. Was it just a fortress? Or a place to train their own mages?
And I wonder how Ancient Tevinter used it.

[Ryzaki]

KJandrew wrote...
Noble families aren't given preferential treatment. The Amell family was in liine to become the Viscounts but they were ruined because one child was born with magic

This bothers me. 

Why wouldn't they be given preferential treatment? I could see why they wouldn't be allowed to not go to the circle but they should get some preferential treatement. If only for the money and resources their families could give to the Circle that housed them. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[TobiTobsen]

Ryzaki wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...
In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king it seems. Even if he is a Idiot, he is the only templar that's doing his damn job . Why exactly is Cullen Knight-Captain again?

"Was that a fireball?"
"No"
"Oh, okay. My mistake then!"

Yeah a job that would've gotten him and Aveline killed if he had done it. You think they would've been able to take that Ogre down? Or that Flemeth would've saved the two of them? 

As for Cullen. I'm still upset that he's not still crazy from origins.   

I miss crazy running around hunting down mages Cullen. 

He said he would let it rest till they got away from the darkspawn.

Ryzaki wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mage's can't hold titles (supposedly). Tis the reason Alistair won't marry a mage. So why the hell can Wynne be an advisor, the mage Warden a chancellor? 

I think (but that's only a guess) the mages aren't allowed to hold titles which are tied to owning land/property and/or having people swear allegiance to them. So that's why Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe when he turns out to be a mage, but something like advisor or chancellor is acceptable.

...That's...odd. Why would it be like that? 

And really lame. 

Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. Even the chant says it.

A possessed mage ruler would not only have his own destructive potential but also people he could send to do his evil bidding.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 04 avril 2011 - 05:09 .

[tmp7704]

Ryzaki wrote...

...That's...odd. Why would it be like that? 

And really lame. 

Ownership of the land is sort of the base of feudal system which most of these DA countries are using -- the more land you own and grant to the vassals, the more powerful you are, the more troops you can field etc. So given this it'd make sense for these communities to want to prevent mages from holding and accumulating this sort of power, since in their eyes that's one way to stop another Tevinter Imperium from rising.

[Abispa]

"Noble families aren't given preferential treatment. The Amell family was in liine to become the Viscounts but they were ruined because one child was born with magic."

@ KJandrew -- Yes, but Hawke's mother was still able to marry into a noble family. Having a mage child in DA would be the equivalent of a Southern family having a Black child during the slavery era, but if the child had light skin and could "blend in," s/he was allowed to be a part of "polite society" so long as they didn't make it common knowledge that the Southern aristocracy had "accepted" a half-blood child. At least that is how I interpret the bits that DA has revealed so far.

[Ryzaki]

TobiTobsen wrote...
He said he would let it rest till they got away from the darkspawn.

Because Aveline told him to chill. His first reaction was to attack the both of them. (A battle he would've lost). 

tmp7704 wrote...
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him. Even the chant says it.

A possessed mage ruler would not only have his own destructive potential but also people he could send to do his evil bidding.

I hate that chant. 

And a possessed mage chancellor could do the same to the king and wreck as much destruction couldn't they? 

tmp7704 wrote...

Ownership of the land is sort of the base of feudal system which most of these DA countries are using -- the more land you own and grant to the vassals, the more powerful you are, the more troops you can field etc. So given this it'd make sense for these communities to want to prevent mages from holding and accumulating this sort of power, since in their eyes that's one way to stop another Tevinter Imperium from rising.

Okay this makes sense. 

Part of me wants to next gameto happen in the Tevinter Imperium so we don't have to deal with "Oh you're a mage?!?" for once. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 avril 2011 - 05:12 .