117 réponses à ce sujet

[GuntiNDDS2]

Errel wrote...

GuntiNDDS2 wrote...
it kinda depends on the pizza. i can get a cheap pizza for ~1.5eur, that still tastes o.k.

Really?
If you don't mean, pay a bum to steal one for you, where do you live? lol

we have pretty decent quality froozen pizza here in the various supermarkets at that price here.

[GoldenusG]

If The Stone Prisoner were a genuine piece of DLC, and notsomething sliced out of the main game, I'd agree it is very high quality. Not $15 (Or to me £10.20 - which equates to $16.60) worth, but as an incentive to buy the game new, it works. The Warden's Keep on the other hand, is a cash cow. $7 for what is by reports a two hour jaunt at best first time through, and a half-hour any time thereafter. And for what? A smidgeon of background, a couple of bits of very nice equipment and a storage chest? I wouldn't gripe if say it came with the Collectors Edition, and those who bought the regular edition went without (actually I'm semi-amazed that EA/Bioware aren't selling the CE's unique equipment) but back to the point, if thats the bang-for-your-buck of future DLC, then I'm more than happy to go without.

[borodin99]

marlowwe wrote...

borodin99 wrote...

marlowwe wrote...

You're right it doesn't make sense - you can't compare cost/benefit of a pizza to a game.

Well, you *can* make that comparison but apparently what you *can't* do is make it without some jackass blowing it up out of proportion and mocking you.

Did I hurt your feelings

No, because I wasn't the guy you replied to. Swing and a miss.

Also, why are people doing ridiculous maths like it proves some real-life point? I'm happy to pay 7 bucks for an hours entertainment so that means I'll pay 700 for 100 hours? What? No? Dragon age is a roughly 60 hour game for a single character play-through, does it cost proportionally more than a roughly 8 hour game? No, no it does not. So take your primary school math and go count the pimples on your forehead.  

Do you have any idea the back-end cost of creating/marketing/hosting a single piece of DLC? I don't, so I can't say they don't need to charge a minimum of 5 bucks a pop to even make ANY content worthwhile.  

[Bane]

The quality of the DLC is on par with the rest of the game in my opinion. No qualms there. The only issue I have with any of it is how Warden's Keep didn't measure up to my expectations.

I was expecting "a base of operations" like it says in the description. I was expecting it to be reconditioned inside and out and that it would act similar to the party camp. I was expecting to be able to recruit others to the Wardens and have them show up at the Keep somewhere.

What the Keep offers is quality, but I'd still consider it an example of wasted potential.

[Errel]

GuntiNDDS2 wrote...

Errel wrote...

GuntiNDDS2 wrote...
it kinda depends on the pizza. i can get a cheap pizza for ~1.5eur, that still tastes o.k.

Really?
If you don't mean, pay a bum to steal one for you, where do you live? lol

we have pretty decent quality froozen pizza here in the various supermarkets at that price here.

Ok, well, really I meant ordering one from the comfort of your own deskchair, how could you not get that. Playing DA:O here!

Modifié par Errel, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:38 .

[phordicus]

if i had a chance to do it over, i wouldn't miss shale or WK. i'm no power player but combined play time wasn't close to 2 hours, and that's satisfying the OC completionist in me.



perhaps if anything else in the game world referenced the DLC, it would feel more a part of it and therefore more necessary. as it is, i get a couple of nice items, a minor history lesson, and another body around the campfire. the gameplay itself was unremarkable.



i can say that i won't be purchasing further DLC without some heavy endorsement from the masses.

[buba10]

Nite77 wrote...

The thing about Stone Prisoner being so integrated is that it originally was supposed to be part of the normal game, and not a DLC. But something happened and it didn't make the final cut. As it stands, I'm happy that it is included now (for free in the CE I bought), in it's finished state. It's quite good piece of work, actually and I rather liked Shale... But not pidgeons

Indeed, its quite clear that Shale was intended to be part of the game.
And although i quite enjoy having him around, i think its a bit silly they make people believe that their getting something  for free.
Same goes for the wardens keep thing, if they had time to make that and bring it out at the same date as the game. Why then dint they just released it with the game, instead of making us pay for or "giving" it for free?

PS. im a huge fan DAO, but i was wondering about this.

[borodin99]

I thought I'd heard in several places this was intended to deter piracy and encourage people to buy the game first-hand - it's not a sinister marketing ploy as far as I know. If it's a choice between having to jump through a hoop or two to get all the content, and securom/installation limits, well, point me at the hoops.

[poofpoof]

borodin99 wrote...

I thought I'd heard in several places this was intended to deter piracy and encourage people to buy the game first-hand - it's not a sinister marketing ploy as far as I know. 

well if that was the intention they failed miserably. The online check was quickly worked around by the pirates (as always) but the same online checking has broken the game for many many paying customers. I go crazy just thinking abut it.

[AshedMan]

Both DLC items were a complete ripoff for the prices they want. Each one can be completed in an hour or less. If I am expected to pay $15 for DLC then I expect to receive several hours worth of content. I will not purchase anymore DLC unless it is equivalent to an area in size and depth as the Deep Roads or the Circle of the Magi tower.

[abilly1973]

i received them as part of the digital download so to some extent i paid some $$$ for them. am i disappointed. no i enjoyed the extra missions but i do agree that they are too short. i did like the background stories for each. content great, length of gameplay not so great

[Ohlsbohls]

I liked both addons. Shale was a great story and a unique companion, while the wk was more of a get in, get out, get paid - experience. And even tho it was a bit short, it also was pretty cheap if you ask me. I paid 560 microsoft points (i play on 360) and thats about 60 skr (5 dollars or something).

Im already looking forward to more addons.

[AstaSyneri]

About the comparisons...



You will not be able to find a common ground in this discussion. The utility of this game to you is different - some look for quality (and that to everybody is measured differently) as well as quantity. Therefore the decreasing marginal utility (1st Gossen's law) will mean that those looking to spend their next $7 (as an example) will find something else that subjectively will give them a better yield of "entertainment" ("bang for the buck" for the not so economical inclined). Others consider buying the DLC just a fine investment.



The important thing for those who want more is this: We will only get more DLC is the number of units bought is (more than) enough to offset the cost of producing the DLC and making it probable that the next expansion will make money, too.



Personally I want more.



That's all there is to it, really.

[readercolin]

DLC might be ok - the DRM that it comes with it, not so much. Quite frankly, I probably would have bought stone prisoner already if it weren't for the fact that I have to get it through "Bioware Points" or whatever that is. I use steam, and its a service that I like a lot, for 1 MAJOR reason. Games that come with steam have the DRM of I can't play unless I'm logged into steam - not something that I have a problem with. Games that don't come with steam tend to have other forms of DRM, which are generally rather annoying, and in some cases, excessively intrusive. In this case, the DRM for the game itself bought through steam is ok. But for the DLC's? no way.



My biggest issue with the DLC though is having those damn worthless NPC's that showed up with their little "talk to me" signs over their head, and have it be in game advertising. So you show up in my game, when I don't want you, I don't want to see you, and you won't go away at all. At least the stone prisoner one has the grace to only appear in my map, instead of in my camp.



The quality of this game is great. But I HATE the way they managed their DLC.



-Colin

[Eurypterid]

readercolin wrote...

DLC might be ok - the DRM that it comes with it, not so much. Quite frankly, I probably would have bought stone prisoner already if it weren't for the fact that I have to get it through "Bioware Points" or whatever that is.

Stone Prisoner is free with every newly purchased copy of the game. You only have to buy it if you bought a used copy of the game.

I use steam, and its a service that I like a lot, for 1 MAJOR reason. Games that come with steam have the DRM of I can't play unless I'm logged into steam - not something that I have a problem with. Games that don't come with steam tend to have other forms of DRM, which are generally rather annoying, and in some cases, excessively intrusive. In this case, the DRM for the game itself bought through steam is ok. But for the DLC's? no way.

It's basically the same as Steam's DRM. The DLC is tied to your account (your e-mail address, basically). You on;y have to be logged into the game under that account to access the DLC. This does not mean logged into the server, just into the game itself. Once you activate the DLC from the server once, you can be offline forever and still play the DLC. I don't see how that's different/worse than Steam.

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

i liked stone prisoner and wardens keep was worth the money it cost- it was inexpensive to begin wiht.


stone prisoner SPOILERS-






the only problem i had with the sp was you couldnt' keep the cat as a party member and kill the girl.

[toronto13]

Valtonis wrote...

if you want to use comparisons.
then you should compare it to the cost of the actual game.
let's say you bought DAO for $50 and just the first run-through took you 50hrs.

then shouldn't a DLC that lasts less then an hour cost less than $1?
so paying $7 is definitely not worth it

What wnout MW2,they say that you can finish SP campaign in 5 hours..................men people who bought that game got s.......,over here Bioware for $50 give you 50hrs and they only 5. 

[FnkyTwn]

Stone Prisoner - Worth It, but this was supposed to be a part of the original game anyway so it's a lot more detailed than any of their other DLCs.

Wardens Keep - You're paying for New Skills, Armour and a place to store your items, and a "Dungeon" you can get through in 30 minutes. It's pretty major BS that you've gotta pay for new skills on day one, but if you can get past that, skip buying WK and load the FREE Camp Storage system available from Bioware's website.

Hopefully Bioware doesn't make Mages pay another $8 just to have a larger Action/Quickset Bar (yes of course you can stretch it out (PC)), but Mages get shafted when other Bioware games have easily solved this issue. 

Bioware could learn a LOT about DLCs from Fallout 3 where $10 gets you HOURS of new Content, Gear and Story, vs content that in every game ever made up until now has been included in a basic 1.01 Patch. "Day One DLC" is a Ripoff, and their marketing people end up making their whole company look sleazy. I'm sure with Dragon Age: 2 we'll get to pay $8 to unlock Mouse functionality.  

Obviously otherwise the game is GREAT!  

[toronto13]

FnkyTwn wrote..
Bioware could learn a LOT about DLCs from Fallout 3 where $10 gets you HOURS of new Content, Gear and Story, vs content that in every game ever made up until now has been included in a basic 1.01 Patch. "Day One DLC" is a Ripoff, and their marketing people end up making their whole company look sleazy. I'm sure with Dragon Age: 2 we'll get to pay $8 to unlock Mouse functionality.  

Obviously otherwise the game is GREAT!  

 
Operation Anchorage and The Pitt were how long,I spent same amount of time playing them and DA DLC.

[Rob Bartel]

buba10 wrote...

Nite77 wrote...

The thing about Stone Prisoner being so integrated is that it originally was supposed to be part of the normal game, and not a DLC. But something happened and it didn't make the final cut. As it stands, I'm happy that it is included now (for free in the CE I bought), in it's finished state. It's quite good piece of work, actually and I rather liked Shale... But not pidgeons

Indeed, its quite clear that Shale was intended to be part of the game.
And although i quite enjoy having him around, i think its a bit silly they make people believe that their getting something  for free.
Same goes for the wardens keep thing, if they had time to make that and bring it out at the same date as the game. Why then dint they just released it with the game, instead of making us pay for or "giving" it for free?

PS. im a huge fan DAO, but i was wondering about this.

I can speak to this a little. Shale was originally designed to be part of the main game that the player would stumble across in Redcliffe. A lot of the banter and interjection lines were written with that in mind and a number of NPCs went as far as having those lines recorded.

Shale posed some serious issues, however, and the project was on a very tight timeline. The existing golem models were too large to fit through doorways, for instance, and posed some problems when party-controlled in combat. The large size was also extremely difficult for our cutscene designers to work around and pretty much every cutscene in the game would be affected. Meanwhile, the golem models also didn't have the full range of animations that a party member requires and their facial structure was poorly-suited to lip-synching. Between that and a variety of other issues (a complex custom inventory proposal, no clear design for custom abilities, etc), the team made the correct decision to cut Shale from the core game.

I was brought onto the Dragon Age PRC team after that decision was made (previously, I had been heading up the NWN PRC team and working on another unannounced project that had recently been canceled). Shale was recommended as a piece of content that could potentially be salvaged for use as PRC. Looking at the scope of the problems surrounding Shale, I actually made the recommendation that we not proceed. In the end, Shale's humor and story and inherent value won the day and we decided to gamble everything and go ahead.

Emergency meetings were held and the artists and animators burned a ridiculous amount of midnight oil (after just coming off crunch time to finish their work on the main game) to shrink Shale down to Qunari size, sink the head so that its eye level matched that of a human, apply the Dwarven overlay animations to account for a slightly stockier body, and merge the Qunari and golem animation rigs. Programming went the extra mile to provide the animators with a means of excluding some of the more emotive or "human" animations that just didn't look right for Shale (no on likes a bum-scratching golem). The cutscene designers still had to make a pass through every cutscene in the game but these changes brought the required fixes down to a manageable level.

Meanwhile, Design simplified the inventory GUI plans down to leverage the existing interface already being used by Dog. Shale's talent tree was designed and redesigned multiple times to minimize the impact on core scripts, which were already under a tight lockdown. The VFX for Shale's crystals piggybacked on an unexpected node inheritance bug that we decided to approach as a feature (if you want to see the bug/feature in action, try casting Flame Weapon on Dog :innocent:). Shale's dialog (which fortunately hadn't been recorded yet) was rewritten to account for her removal from Redcliffe and the changes to her character art and inventory systems. The level artists went to town creating Honnleath, the Cellars, and Cadash Thaig.

The vast majority of this took place after the PC version had entered a tight lockdown and the core DA:O team had moved onto the console versions or over to Mass Effect 2. It wouldn't have been possible without the additional manpower made available as a result of our very difficult decision to cancel the project I had formerly been on. Even with that additional manpower, there's no way that content would have made it fully onto the disc rather than via download (some aspects did make it onto the disc but most of those were the elements that had already been created as part of Shale's initial design). In the end, it was an extremely high risk gamble and, right until the very end, emerging problems and unexpected issues threatened to derail the Shale project entirely. Fortunately, it all worked out (by the skin of our teeth!) and we were able to have Shale available for download at the time of launch.

Knowing that Shale had previously been announced as being a part of the main game and knowing that there was the potential for a community backlash if we asked all of you to pay cold hard cash for it at launch, the decision was made to include the redemption code in all new copies of the game. In essence, we're choosing to provide Shale as a "lost leader" and a demonstration in good faith of what's to come with future PRC. A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into making Shale happen - the fact that the content blends so seamlessly with the rest of the game and looks so effortless is a sign that we did our job right.

Enjoy the game,
Rob

[Chii]

Sarakinoi wrote...

>>>I bought the digital deluxe edition and it has given me nothing but grief. (Wardens keep and all my gear suddenly dissapearing, Shale braking the game when you try to speak to him and so on...)

That's why I disabled all DLCs on my second run, and I wont activate them unless I really get an itch to explore all of Shale's interactions. Savegame based DRM, what were they thinking? And not even a mention of patching this yet.
As for the quality of the DLCs, both are decent I guess. Stone prisoner was a bit too short (under an hour, same here), and I did not like how items and the chest were a big part of the deal.
For me DLCs should be like with Fallout 3, focused on adventuring, new areas, new enemies, and new stories if possible.
Items are kind of hard to do "right", as they either feel too weak or too powerful and thus game-experience breaking. (As an example I got StarFeng very early and it lasted me the whole game, which does not feel right somehow.)

I got the Deluxe Edition downloaded too - never ever had any issue with the DLCs (Got 4 of them) through 3 playthroughs.

My only wish is that they make bigger DLCs and avoid making silly mistakes like locking Warden's Keep after you complete it. I mean.. What's the point?

[Zenthar Aseth]

pulcherrima wrote...

Errel wrote...

Agreed, $7 won't even buy you a good pizza here. And that lasts for about 10mins, so really. Not a price to be complaining about.

Fail

Zenthar Aseth wrote...
Wtf? That makes no sense. All he's saying is that it's obvious BioWare is giving you your money's value and more...

Epic fail

So, you guys are happy to pay 7$ for 1hour of content, and since you are putting your money where you mouth is, what EA understands is that you WOULD BE HAPPY to pay $210 for a 30hour pack (like a traditional expansion), if only they release a little bit at a time.

I hope there are not many like you, because, If the current DLCs sell well, we can forget about ever having a "traditional" expansion "traditionally" priced.

It's just business.

Don't worry. It'll all be as clear to you as the night sky when you're a bit older.

[oghier]

Rob,



Thanks for the history. Shale is a great character. Not quite HK-47, but sufficiently distinctive to be entertaining

[SheffSteel]

Eh. "Loss leader" is the phrase, I think. But good post nonetheless.

[DLC On The Disc]

Stone Prisoner: High quality



Warden's Keep: Low quality, low quantity