236 réponses à ce sujet

[MonkeyLungs]

aftohsix wrote...

Okay so far there seems to be two trains of thought.

The first consists of some pretty cool ideas for how they could have implemented a reactive world to a Mage Hawke.  Keep it up.  I'm really enjoying the discussion.

The second train of thought consists of this opinion:  "If Bioware made a different game all of the problems would go away." .....  Obvious much?

The game's been out for three weeks now.  The time has come and gone for "Bioware should have made a different game," as a form of criticism.  DA2 is the game we have.  If you straight up hate it, that's totally fine but what you should be focusing on is providing some constructive feedback.  "Make a different game" isn't going to cut it.

Thirdly:  Don't hijack my thread please.

Fourthly:  If you feel the need to bash Mr. Laidlaw or any other Bioware developer do it somewhere else.

and finally this treat...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

What is it you are going to report him for? What is with everyone reporting people anyway? Are you that fragile?

No I'm not "fragile."  I'm so far past done with trying to discuss the game with people who can't do it civily.  Re-read his entire post.  If he can't post a response to me without implying I somehow have an IQ of 10 he doesn't deserve to be an active member of this community.

My new rule is: be a douche.  I'll report you and let the mods sort it out.

So you turn around and throw insults right back in retaliation? Then continue to threaten to tattle tale? Confusing ...

[JamieCOTC]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

We know why they did it, doesn't mean we have to enjoy it. Here I was a mage and supposedly sympathetic to my fellows plight when in reality it didn't matter because the game was designed to ignore my talents. My friends and family would comment on how they were worried because I was a mage. I wish Hawke could just turn around and say "Guys, it's ok. I'm the hero."

Okay but in all honesty what was their option then?  What would you have had them do differently to make it more enjoyable for you?

How 'bout don't go with a storyline since you can't justify it?

Just sayin'. Thing is many ppl don't even enjoy the derivative storyline from DA:O.

This.  One thing writers MUST learn is to be cruel to their own desires.  If something doesn't work, no matter how cool it is, don't use it.  It really is just that simple. 

[MonkeyLungs]

RVNX wrote...

actually, I'm more peeved that being a Blood Mage has pretty much 0 impact on the story ( or being a Templar as a Warrior ), considering how important both BMs and Templars are to the story.

that, more than anything, really killed my overall desire to play the game, considering that's a huge blow to RP purposes.

The specializations are just there for the cool abilities man. They don't actually have anything to do with your "character".

[MonkeyLungs]

MrTijger wrote...

Well, lets remove mage as a playable class then, problem solved.

They probably should have for THIS story. That or rethink the storytelling.

[Jman5]

I said this somewhere else, but I'll say this again. They could have easily dealt with this pseudo-plot hole by adding 3 unique class quests at the start of act 2.

By Act 2, you have become well known and the higher ups have taken notice of you. It's at this point that the Templars discover you are really a Mage and demand you be arrested and sent to the circle. However your prestige and friendship with the Viscount (especially after saving his son) forces a compromise. You will go through The Harrowing like a normal mage and if you pass you can remain free.

Then you can have a neat quest and you're no longer wondering why the Templars do nothing when you fling fireballs in their faces.

[AngryFrozenWater]

aftohsix wrote...

To truly experience how immersion breaking this issue is play a pro-templar blood mage. I'm doing it right now and it's pretty funny. "BLOOD MAGE TO THE CIRCLE WITH YE!!" "But I just saw you use blood magic." "I AM WEALTHY!"

Ghehe. I am doing the same thing. My goal is to become viscount that way. How cool is that? A blood mage on the throne.

[Desty Nova]

DA:O had an answer. The Grey Wardens were above the law, and your Mage PC was allowed to roam free as a grey warden despite the fact that the whole of society feared them.

Establishing the wardens as an ancient and revered "profession", independant from the prejudices of the non-warden society was an excellent device that allowed the characters to transcend the bondaries of each of the world's disparate groups. So the Dalish would talk to my Human PC. My City elf PC would be accepted in the halls of nobility.

So yes, it could have been done if they wanted to. But I agree with several of the other posts here, the easiest answer is not to base your storyline on the mage/templar divide.

[sphinxess]

Jman5 wrote...

I said this somewhere else, but I'll say this again. They could have easily dealt with this pseudo-plot hole by adding 3 unique class quests at the start of act 2.

By Act 2, you have become well known and the higher ups have taken notice of you. It's at this point that the Templars discover you are really a Mage and demand you be arrested and sent to the circle. However your prestige and friendship with the Viscount (especially after saving his son) forces a compromise. You will go through The Harrowing like a normal mage and if you pass you can remain free.

Then you can have a neat quest and you're no longer wondering why the Templars do nothing when you fling fireballs in their faces.

Im pretty sure having the Viscount in your corner wouldn't stop Meredith - making friends with the grand cleric however......

[AngryFrozenWater]

sphinxess wrote...

Jman5 wrote...

I said this somewhere else, but I'll say this again. They could have easily dealt with this pseudo-plot hole by adding 3 unique class quests at the start of act 2.

By Act 2, you have become well known and the higher ups have taken notice of you. It's at this point that the Templars discover you are really a Mage and demand you be arrested and sent to the circle. However your prestige and friendship with the Viscount (especially after saving his son) forces a compromise. You will go through The Harrowing like a normal mage and if you pass you can remain free.

Then you can have a neat quest and you're no longer wondering why the Templars do nothing when you fling fireballs in their faces.

Im pretty sure having the Viscount in your corner wouldn't stop Meredith - making friends with the grand cleric however......

The grand cleric is really kind to me. She even knows my grand mother and knows stories about her. She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

[Kimberly Shaw]

She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

Iseewhatudidthere and I laughed out loud.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

Iseewhatudidthere and I laughed out loud.

On a serious note... She will tell you about your grand mother and other stuff if you have the Sebastian DLC. Apart from that obvious flaw, I really like how the grand cleric is portrayed. It is one of the few characters you can talk to whenever you like. She has more to say than your love interest. Hehe.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 05 avril 2011 - 04:56 .

[aftohsix]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

So you turn around and throw insults right back in retaliation? Then continue to threaten to tattle tale? Confusing ...

Maybe I should have phrased it as:  Resort to personal attacks in your arguments and I'll report you?  Does that make more sense?

[Soul Cool]

aftohsix wrote...

One of the major complaints I've seen about DA2 is that if you play as a mage you're free to run around Kirkwall slinging spells, wearing robes and a staff and doing this in plain view of citizens, guards and templars.  There are very few consequences for this.

The complaint is that the game world should react to you.  I agree that this would be pretty cool.  However lets look at it realistically.

Based on the lore established in DAO, all apostates are either to be killed or captured by the Templars.  If we reallly had a reactive world to you being a mage in Kirkwall you'd HAVE to either be forced to join the circle (which we're told is like a prison in Kirkwall) or executed on the spot (which seems likely based on how Meredith views mages.)

So you're there, throwing a spell around in front of a templar and you'd either get killed or you'd get Dragon Age 2: Kirkwall mage tower.  Neither are exactly a fun gaming experience.

One of the other options would be to not allow the player to be a mage.  Think of the uproar if that was a direction they went.

It would be entirely possible to make the world reactive to Hawke being a mage but it would require designing a game within a game.  The mage storyline would have to be radically different from the other two.

 Bioware obviously went the easier route and asks for a greater deal of suspension of disbelief in this case, rather than re-writing large sections of the game.

Or you could just slaughter all the Templars if that's how you roll. Because you're the PC, and that's what PCs do.

[MonkeyLungs]

aftohsix wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

So you turn around and throw insults right back in retaliation? Then continue to threaten to tattle tale? Confusing ...

Maybe I should have phrased it as:  Resort to personal attacks in your arguments and I'll report you?  Does that make more sense?

I don't really agree with people insulting each other ... we are all gamers that obviously like RPG's. I think that gives us some common ground. I just don't really agree with reporting people either, it just seems weird to me. To you it doesn't, no worries. Also your insults were aimed at the posters intelligence ansd similar in theme to the insultsd that hurt your feelings. Seemed a bit odd to resort to that which hurt you only to threaten reporting. That's kind of like getting your neighbor in trouble for playing loud music just because you want to crank yours up without hearing his.

[Kimberly Shaw]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

Iseewhatudidthere and I laughed out loud.

On a serious note... She will tell you about your grand mother and other stuff if you have the Sebastian DLC. Apart from that obvious flaw, I really like how the grand cleric is portrayed. It is one of the few characters you can talk to whenever you like. She has more to say than your love interest. Hehe.

She IS my love interest.

[The_FenixV]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

So you turn around and throw insults right back in retaliation? Then continue to threaten to tattle tale? Confusing ...

Maybe I should have phrased it as:  Resort to personal attacks in your arguments and I'll report you?  Does that make more sense?

I don't really agree with people insulting each other ... we are all gamers that obviously like RPG's. I think that gives us some common ground. I just don't really agree with reporting people either, it just seems weird to me. To you it doesn't, no worries. Also your insults were aimed at the posters intelligence ansd similar in theme to the insultsd that hurt your feelings. Seemed a bit odd to resort to that which hurt you only to threaten reporting. That's kind of like getting your neighbor in trouble for playing loud music just because you want to crank yours up without hearing his.

Nothing can change, face it, some of them will keep insulting each other until they report each other, it seems like it's how  the forums work lately, it seems to me like no one has the right to their own opinion, otherwise they are bashed, those who hated the game and those who liked it get the same treatment it seems. 

[MonkeyLungs]

The_FenixV wrote...

Nothing can change, face it, some of them will keep insulting each other until they report each other, it seems like it's how  the forums work lately, it seems to me like no one has the right to their own opinion, otherwise they are bashed, those who hated the game and those who liked it get the same treatment it seems. 

I find it odd because all my favorite games have things about them that I just think are absolutely stupid and I wonder how the developers could have ever thought they were good ideas. I don't punch myself in the bollocks over it.

I think it's perfectly possible to enjoy DA2 and at the same time think that alot of it is pretty lame.

[CitizenThom]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

Iseewhatudidthere and I laughed out loud.

On a serious note... She will tell you about your grand mother and other stuff if you have the Sebastian DLC. Apart from that obvious flaw, I really like how the grand cleric is portrayed. It is one of the few characters you can talk to whenever you like. She has more to say than your love interest. Hehe.

She IS my love interest.

I thought she was a good contrast to some other power figures in Kirkwall. She was very likeable. If any harm came to her, I'd hate the person just as much as I would hate a person who hurt Hawke's mom.

[Rockpopple]

I didn't know you could speak with her that often like that. I'll have to do that on my current playthrough.

[Scnew]

The first game found an excuse for you to be a mage running around without Templars following you. Why couldn't this one?

[MonkeyLungs]

Grand Cleric is a great character. A voice of reason in a sea of idiocy.

[AngryFrozenWater]

CitizenThom wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

She's so sweet to my blood mage that it brings tears to my eyes.

Iseewhatudidthere and I laughed out loud.

On a serious note... She will tell you about your grand mother and other stuff if you have the Sebastian DLC. Apart from that obvious flaw, I really like how the grand cleric is portrayed. It is one of the few characters you can talk to whenever you like. She has more to say than your love interest. Hehe.

She IS my love interest.

I thought she was a good contrast to some other power figures in Kirkwall. She was very likeable. If any harm came to her, I'd hate the person just as much as I would hate a person who hurt Hawke's mom.

I can try to convince Anders to use a wet fuse. But I can't promise anything. After all, I am a blood mage.

[aftohsix]

The_FenixV wrote...


Nothing can change, face it, some of them will keep insulting each other until they report each other, it seems like it's how  the forums work lately, it seems to me like no one has the right to their own opinion, otherwise they are bashed, those who hated the game and those who liked it get the same treatment it seems. 

I don't see anywhere where the person I warned was insulted by me.  Other wise I agree with both of you.  Using the report system is dumb but I'm tired of being insulted because I have an opinion.  There is a TOS for a reason.

[The_FenixV]

Scnew wrote...

The first game found an excuse for you to be a mage running around without Templars following you. Why couldn't this one?

First game didn't find an excuse for Wynne being able to be a blood mage. Or the templars letting you go if you are a blood mage, though then again when they were working on the circle of mages level, if you knew blood mage Wynne would denounce you and you'd have to fight Irwing, Wynne and all the templars, so all you did in the tower would of been pointless, guess that's why they changed it. I wouldn't mind killing some templars and mages, too bad we don't get that option. 

I do wish there was an excuse on the second game though, it's a bit insulting being an apostate and no one seems to see that you are a mage. 

[Soul Cool]

Scnew wrote...

The first game found an excuse for you to be a mage running around without Templars following you. Why couldn't this one?

Because, no matter what happens, the character is going to win. Doesn't make any sense for them to have your character basically running around and just killing everything (Unless you're chaotic evil), now, does it?

It really wasn't going to matter what BioWare did, because people would be wondering why they needed an excuse to hide from the templars in the first place. You could take them down any day.