243 réponses à ce sujet

[MDT1]

DAO - PC

[Teredan]

I like the the new visual direction, but DA2 was partly far too bright and boring on the colour palette. It somewhat lost quite a lot of the grittyness for me that i appreciated in DA:O. Not a major concern but it adds to the pile of things that let me like DA2 a lot less than DA:O

Modifié par Teredan, 13 avril 2011 - 10:27 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Wow! The overwhelmingly preference of the Origins artstyle over DA2 is quite apparent. I wonder if the the art director cares what the people on this forum think?

Curse: So in this game(DA2) you really set the standards and principles up that you'll use for new titles, expansions etc?

Matthew Goldman(DA2's art director): That's exactly right. There really wasn't a philosophy before, or a set of objective criteria that you could take something and say "Is that Dragon Age?", art is really that scientific. We've established a vocabulary on the team that really doesn't let us be self indulgent, instead we say "What's right for the game? What's right for the character? What's right for this environment?".

I'll put my vote in for the more realistic 3-D animation of Origins (PS3) over the cartoon style Dragon Age II.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 13 avril 2011 - 10:28 .

[randName]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

randName wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Swords

Take swords, something you brought up - in generic fantasy swords are the weapon of choice among heroes, swords in reality are effective against certain types of materials, while normally weak against others; now most games, and most works of fantasy ignores how swords actually work when it comes to details.

So making a game more realistic when it came to damage, where weapons like swords actually work more as they do reality, forcing you to avoid metal plates and try to find gaps in the armour would make this game less generic compared to the genre to which it belongs, while making it feel more real.

Or by avoiding the generic the work becomes more realistic, in this case.

Would depend on the setting (or game). There are fantasy games that did that.
And we're now talkign mechanics again and nto visual design....

Doesn't matter if a few other games did that before, understand that generic does not imply that someone else did it in the past, but that it's common usage within the class/group that the work belongs.

So most fantasy games would have to use more realistic combat for it to be generic to fantasy games, and then it would be generic if your work did the same, but since most fantasy games don't, a game that does strive for realistic combat would not be generic to its class/group.

Or trying to avoid a generic product does not set you on a path to make everything unique, just different enough, this being a value judgment, from the class that you belong to.

This could make you copy an entire genre, and then twist it, like Shadowrun ~ merging generic fantasy with generic sci-fi, and suddenly, despite the constant reuse of old ideas and imagery, you still have a non-generic product simply to all the derived changes - as no longer will the trolls run around with clubs but minguns and cyber-eyes, both tropes of sci-fi RPGs, but now cast in a different light.

This is not an ode to Shadowrun, I just used it as an example of using generic ideas to produce a non-generic product.

Nor isn't an ode to non-generic works of art, even if I see a value in them, as I do with generic ideas and stereotypes.

And you could pierce full plate with a sword (but it wasn't easy)...you couldn't slash trough tough.
But adding more variety and life to the combat system? Sure, I'd love that...

So would I, and when possible I try to find mods that those this for games I play, as the fullplate mod for BG1,2,TB that scraps the old DnD system, and adds resistance to damage based on damage type, making slashing close to useless against plate, while it remains extremely effective against soft targets.


Would further prefer it if they could divide it up into cutting blades or not, as making curved blades like the Katana etc. even better against flesh, but close to useless against anything that it can't slice through.

etc.

but that's a different discussion.

Modifié par randName, 13 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[Rabid Rooster]

DA:O PC

But I love the new Qunari. But I loath the new elves. Even Had I liked DA 2, the new look of the elves (My favorite fantasy race) would have killed it for me. The hole time i was playing DA:O I was wishing for a female elf for my character to romance. DA 2 finally gives me one and she and all her sisters looks like humaniod alien sheep.

[Valfreyja]

DAO - PC

With the exception of the new Qunari models and the updated human models(when they aren't glitching like ****).

Modifié par bjornis, 13 avril 2011 - 11:11 .

[Arkuran]

 DA:O - PC (Even though I don't have it )

[randName]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Generic is a word that seems to have no real meaning on the Internets, as it is throw around a lot without proper context or thought.
Indeed, it is used as a sort of insult.

It’s used like “You are too fat”, and that’s how it’s supposed to be used, as in you are saying that this product uses too many of the tropes of the class to who it belongs.

That would depend on what kind of generic, no?

For example, a "generic" sword is more real than a lavish, impractical high-fantasy one?

Generic to the class, whit in high fantasy the generic sword to that group is the impractical one, while the realistic sword is the less generic (to high-fantasy).

Generic is a relative term, and when people use it you have to take in the context.

There is more usage to generic then one, and one of them is not having a brand name, which is related to being the standard form of that class, or being a standard make.

So to the class of swords a generic sword is more realistic than than a high-fantasy standard fare of lavish pomp, sure - but once the compared class is high-fantasy the lavish sword is the generic sword.

Doesn't matter.
The word does have connotations and mental images associated with it, this giving it substance and presence.

Immersion sure, not realism.

When I say "dwarf", 90% of people will imagine a classical LOTR or D&D  dwarf. Anything that diverges fromthat will seem less..dwarfy.
Dwarfs may not exist physically, but they do exist as concepts..which his why straying too much from the concepts can make it feel less realistic or believable.

It can, but it’s not said that it does.

As said you could take the concept of a dwarf, and make it more realistic, and fairly soon people would buy it if you do it well.

And I’m not saying that making something less generic makes it more realistic, just that there is no connection that says that making something more generic is within it’s class will make it more realistic (unless the class is realism, but as said then the term generic has no real use), and I’d say that often with fantasy there are several ways that the generic ideas hamper realism, often even need to, as what separates the class of fantasy from non-fantasy is those parts that are directly opposed to what’s real.

Wiki ~ Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. Many works within the genre take place in fictional worlds where magic is common. Fantasy is generally distinguished from science fiction and horror by the expectation that it steers clear of (pseudo-)scientific and macabre themes, respectively, though there is a great deal of overlap between the three (which are subgenres of speculative fiction).

Don't tell me what I prefer like you know what I like.
I like fantasy that feels real. LOTR move >>> D&D movie.

Well you compared a well made movie with a horribly badly made one ~ maybe there in lies the reason for your dislike?

Just saying that if like a generic world over a non-generic world on that basis alone, aside from what is within it, then you do prefer what is known to you, opposed to what is unknown, and not because you prefer realism.

As I said before - it depends. Generic compared to WHAT?

Already states this too many times, generic to its own class and/or group.

DA:O was said to look like LOTR..which according to you is generic fantasy...But D&D is also generic fantasy..and doesn't look like LOTR nor feel as real as LOTR. Clearly, LOTR feel mor realistic than D&D.
Which his why this whole thing makes little sense.

LotR is the main creator, the foundation, of the class of fantasy we directly relate to when someone says that a work is a work of fantasy. It stands there on good merits, as it was the first great work of fantasy literature, and few would call the LotR work by Tolkien generic, since accusing the father of being too much like the son doesn’t really work well, so nor did I.

I simply used generic to LotR-fantasy as in that fantasy that comes today often relates to and are descriptive of LotR by Tolkien, and so is DnD, as it too is a derived work of Tolkien in many regards.

That said try to understand what I’m trying to say, and that is simply that generic and realistic are not tied, they have no direct correlating bond, and by removing what is generic you don’t remove what is realistic, or the reverse.

You can add generic ideas and thus make it more realistic, but not because those ideas are generic in themselves, as you can just as well make something more realistic by removing generic ideas.

Nor do I say that generic is bad, or good ~ simply that generic is relating to or descriptive of an entire group or class. and as such, since its depending on what class you relate to, not tied to realism, just what ideas commonly populate the class the work you describe belongs within.

So as for the movies, as generic is not tied to realism it doesn’t matter if DnD film and LotRs trilogy are as generic, or if one was generic or not, since their sense of realism doesn’t stem from them being generic fantasy or not.

Honestly I haven’t seen the DnD movie, and you would probably have to tie me down like Alex DeLarge from a Clockwork Orange if you would have me watch it, since it seems to be utterly worthless, so I can’t really say anything about that movie, but this - it could have been utterly non-generic, or generic to a fault, and that it self wouldn’t have made the quality of the movie, as there is more to a good, or bad film than what generic ideas it brings to the table or not.

Frak..I'm beginning to hate the word, because ever retard on the Internet is using it to complain about everything.

Battlestars or not, don’t hate the word, or the world for a discussion, especially one that started with your complaints about people calling DA:O too generic (for its a valid opinion, like if someone called it just right in regards to what generic ideas it took from its class).

In closing, since I think it’s (past) high time to end this discussion; If 99% of the all English speakers use a word incorrectly according to you, you already lost, for words are simply arbitrary symbols/morphemes communicating meaning based upon a general understanding of their meaning.

Modifié par randName, 13 avril 2011 - 12:22 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

randName wrote...

And you could pierce full plate with a sword (but it wasn't easy)...you couldn't slash trough tough.
But adding more variety and life to the combat system? Sure, I'd love that...

So would I, and when possible I try to find mods that those this for games I play, as the fullplate mod for BG1,2,TB that scraps the old DnD system, and adds resistance to damage based on damage type, making slashing close to useless against plate, while it remains extremely effective against soft targets.


Would further prefer it if they could divide it up into cutting blades or not, as making curved blades like the Katana etc. even better against flesh, but close to useless against anything that it can't slice through.

I use that mod too. 

Made my own mod that did the same thing soem time ago, but lost it.


EDIT:

B.t.w. - if generic is taken (in this discussion) to mean "it had elves and dwarves and swords, and sine msot fantasy has them, it's generic", then what's the whole point of this?

We just spent a good amount of time discussing "The sun is blue.". "Yes, its' blue because it has the color blue in it.". Or to drop the paraphrase "DA:O is standard western fantasy"

In other words, pointless.....

Call us Cpt Obvious and Ditto Boy!!!!!!

[Romantiq]

Between two? DA:O.

Comparing to other games' visual style that could actually fit Dragon Age? Assassin's Creed 2

ps. No need to call me AC fanboy, I KNOW that agent 47 is a better assassin. =)

[Blastback]

DAO PC and 360. The new elf designs are especially bad. But they should keep the horned quanari

[MingWolf]

DA:O. PC. Just by comparing how Leliana, Alistair, and Zevran looks in DA2 to that of DA:O scares me.  It also seems more serious in DA:O, which is appropriate for the lore and world created for this game.  

Modifié par MingWolf, 13 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Jerrybnsn]

I just read a preview on the Witcher 2, and the screenshots were amazingly realistic and detailed. The Witcher 2 looks like it'll be the best visual game this year. If no one has taken a look at those screenshots yet, look them up on line and you'll see the direction that DA should have taken instead of the Brutal Legend cartoon style.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 14 avril 2011 - 09:31 .

[Supreez]

I didn't mind the artstyle at all. If it was a more immersive game it might have even been pretty cool. What i do mind is when the Artiness doesn't fit and serves no purpose. Architecture and wll ornamentation and blade design all make sense culturally. Half retarded darkspawn don't have culture and are probably scavengers. That's why i liked how it looked like they just picked up pieces of armor off the ground in DAO. I didn't like the darkspawn redesigns or things like Flemeth.

Flemeth was way more intimidated to me when she was just a raggedy old lady. Same with that hermit dude he freaked me out. I don't like when someone's clearly hiding something.

[Deltacommand]

Of course I prefer Origins' looks over DA 2's. And not just the character models, the cartoonish feeling and the men, women in plate armors, while jumping 30 meters are just so out of place in a game like Dragon Age, that I can't find words to describe them....

Whoever came up with the new direction both in art and dynamics/physics, should go away to work on the new  Final Fantasy project.

Modifié par Deltacommand, 17 avril 2011 - 12:53 .

[hk-onehitwonder]

Mostly love the DAO idea

just please don't make the character too anime, the game should stick to realistic and dark fantasy.
don't follow the Japan game style > everything too fancy.

[bEVEsthda]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Wow! The overwhelmingly preference of the Origins artstyle over DA2 is quite apparent. I wonder if the the art director cares what the people on this forum think?

Curse: So in this game(DA2) you really set the standards and principles up that you'll use for new titles, expansions etc?

Matthew Goldman(DA2's art director): That's exactly right. There really wasn't a philosophy before, or a set of objective criteria that you could take something and say "Is that Dragon Age?", art is really that scientific. We've established a vocabulary on the team that really doesn't let us be self indulgent, instead we say "What's right for the game? What's right for the character? What's right for this environment?".

I'll put my vote in for the more realistic 3-D animation of Origins (PS3) over the cartoon style Dragon Age II.

Wow! So disgusting, infuriating, retarded Final Fantasy wanking like this:



...is not the result of a fanboy designer being self indulgent, but the outcome of a scientific vocabularity on what is "right"?!    This is 'Dragon Age'?

It looks really dark for DA3. 

[savagesparrow]

Gah, you guys are crazy. DA: 2 is superior visually to DA: O in mostly every way--Like or hate the new models for elves/quanari/etc, at least they LOOK like elves/quanari/etc instead of being slimmed down models of the human clones. Sten didn't really look like anything other than a bigger human with slightly pointed ears, and all of the elves were simply slightly shorter humans (whose ears you couldn't see half the time if they happened to have the 'long hair' preset). At least in DA 2 they all have individual bodytypes so you can clearly say, "Oh, that's an elf and not a short person or a human child".

Speaking of bodies--SO MUCH BETTER in DA 2. For one thing, the men don't have those ridiculous monkey arms anymore, and women actually look like women! As an artist and a woman it made me CRINGE when my PC would have a "romance" scene because her boobs were simultaneously pancaked and perky, so they never hung properly and looked incredibly awful whenever she was in her gross-looking undies. Even though every lady has giant boobs in DA 2, at least they look like boobs now! And no more man shoulders that makes it look like it'd be impossible for your PC to hold her arms at her side (there was this weird gap at the armpit where you could tell they basically took the Zevan model and slimmed off the muscles). Men also don't have those giant face-crushing hands anymore! It's great!

While I agree that the Origins characters looked super weird in DA2, that's something that'll probably be tweaked down the line since they only appeared for a few cameos instead of full on screentime.

And while the final fantasy-esque armor might not be "realistic", I'd take less realistic but interesting armor over the 2 rogue armor models with indefinite pallette swaps that we had in Origins. I like that the characters have their own look now instead of me being able to literally create the same model of that character for my warden--it makes the characters less special when you're wandering around Thedas and you happen to see their exact twins. And again with the "realistic" complaint--you can suspend your disbelief to watch someone hurl a magical fireball at someone, but a guy with feathery armor is going "too far"? ;x

Kirkwall is a beautifully designed city (again, from a purely visual standpoint), and it doesn't look like any other city I've seen in any other games before. Whereas Denerim and the other cities you visit really feel like generic, "This is a stock fantasy city" cities that didn't have any thought put into them other than "I guess there should be houses and stuff..." Kirkwall really feels like there was a =culture= that built the city, from the statues to the banners to the graffitti on the walls of Darktown. Now, if they had filled it up with people you could interact with like Denerim then it really would've felt alive, but that's another point entirely that has nothing to do with the visual design.

The Darkspawn, while I personally didn't particularly like the new individual spawn (though I did dig the Ogres and the emisaries), I appreciate that they actually look like they're suffering from some sort of corrupted plague now, instead of being escapees from a burn unit (or orcs that wandered off the set of the LotR movie). They're pale because they fricken' live underground like morlocks, and it's cool that you can see the black ichor creeping around their appendages (this was described often enough in The Calling and the other DA novel, so it made me sad that the spawn in DAO didn't particularly look like they were spreading disease). But the individual spawn do look like skeletor, so it'd be nice if they were tweaked a bit more to look more individualistic.

Overall my main point is that, like it or hate it, DA 2 made art and visual design a priority compared to DA: O where it clearly was not. DA: O had very generic, bland visuals and the fact that there was no female model is a crime. It was a =very= ugly game, and only through mods could you make it not wince-worthy. But DA 2 looks pretty good, and at least they're making an effort to create their own world instead of copy/paste the designs from Lord of the Rings.

[Andaril78]

DA: O art style.
DA 2 propably had better quality but was too much influed by cartoonic and anime style.
Want an heavily influence of western medieval realistic style.
Ehh. ..Look at Witcher. An combination of DA: O and Witcher would be superb in my eyes

[MortalEngines]

DAO-PC

Though I did like the technical improvements in DA2 (High-textures, Hair, clothing), just not the actual style, was a tad too cartoony.

[Roxlimn]

DA2 PC

[DarthCaine]

DAO