198 réponses à ce sujet

[Mason Reed]

Hate to say this, but...  Number 5 is indeed correct -- at least, for certain values of correct.   Note that I haven't seen the scene in the game being critized here -- it is entirely possible, even likely, that the scene itself is completely outragous.  But the complaint raised in this thread is "Vacuum will kill you", so that's what I'm adressing.  See http://www.geoffreyl...com/vacuum.html, for example.

Pressure:

If all of your orafices are sealed in some way (ears, eyes, mouth, noise, etc.)
*AND*
If you are being supplied with oxygen

Then simple vacuum exposure won't kill you.  The skin is strong enough that it won't rupture over the pressure differential, and as long as that doesn't occur, internal body pressure will remain the same and all will be good.

Tempature:

Note that, by defination, vacuum is neither cold nor hot (regardless of "in sun" / "out of sun" or other factors).  Tempature is a property of matter, and vacuum is defined as not having any matter in it.  Bodies that happen to be in a vacuum (for example, a thermometer) do have tempatures, of course, but you are measuring the tempature of the body, not the tempature of the surrounding vacuum.  Actually, this is always true (even in an atmosphere) -- take a thermometer and put it in the freezer for an hour, then take it out -- at first, the tempature will be near freezing, despite the fact that the room tempature is much higher.  Hmmmm... 

Now, bodies in a constant environment will eventually reach an equiliberum tempature with that environment, and that's what is meant when people speak of "Space is cold".  But note that it takes a long time to reach this tempature -- far longer than it would in an atmosphere -- and the underlying assumption is that the object isn't trying to maintain some other tempature.  Vacuum is a superb insulator (see "Thermos" in Wikipedia for a description as to why) and this applies in space as well as more controlled vacuums on the ground.

Given that a human body would indeed be trying to regulate its tempature, and given the slow loss of heat in a vacuum, it would certainly take some time before hypo/hyper-thermia set in.  Per the article (and I agree with it, as a layman) you are far more likely to suffer from hyperthermia rather than hypothermia.

The above assumes that you are not being exposed high intensity radation (e.g. raw sunlight).  In that scenario, really bad (and rapid) sunburn would be a factor in short order (< 10 minutes).  That doesn't have anything to do with being in a vacuum, though...

tl;dr:  If are supplied with sufficent oxygen, extended (> 10 minute) survival in deep space without a full space suit is likely -- in the shade.  Even without oxygen (completely nude) you probably have ~5 seconds of useful functioning time (maybe 10, if you were expecting the decompression), and can be revived for another 30-90 seconds.

[lltoon]

Rekkampum wrote...

lltoon wrote...

Bioware was founded by 3 medical doctors, which apparently had no knowledge of human genetic diversity or immunology.

Why haven't you guys realized that when Mordin makes that statement, he is talking in comparison of humans to the other known alien races, not to all species life in general?

Seriously though, I would love to see how they respond to some of the folks up here. 

By that logic, then wouldn't the Asari be the most genetically diverse of the species because they mate with other alien species apart from their own?

[Zelnik]

Yes and...no? They scramble and randomize their own DNA with useful DNA patterns found in other races, gaining traits from those races that they can use, and ignoring what they cannot. However, the child is always asari, and its more likely that they are extremely similar to one another due to generations of 'inbreeding'.

An important point to make though is their one known genetic defect (there are almost certainly more) of being an Ardat Yakshi is so rare, that in a society of probably over one hundred billion, only three are known to exist. This suggests but does not prove significant resistance to genetic abnormalities or mutations

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

Cool points.

I'd also like to mention;

WTF is Humanity so primitive at 150 years of development? Not to mention the fact that they found Prothean technology (200 years they say of advancement) and are still primitive.

Sigh.......'tis the nature of Sci-Fi to underestimate scientific advancement.

[Soldier989]

mrklean007 wrote...

Want something more impossible? FTL travel. Or "Element Zero".

People said we would never fly, people said we would never have anything like electricity, Bill Gates said we would never need more than a couple hundred KB's of RAM, the point is, saying stuff is "impossible" or never going to happen is incredibly stupid, it'll take a long time for humanity to get any kind of machine (like a rocket) to travel at the speed of light, and until we do we won't know if FTL travel is possible or not, until than, the only thing we have is theroies about it and not proven facts.

[Hobbes83]

If I remember correctly in the game, they say that humans have a bigger genetic variability compared to the other species, that could be perfectly true.

And you're assuming that the quarians have a human-like inmune system, when you dont have any data.

Sorry for my english, i hope i didnt invent any word

Edit:to fix some errors

Modifié par Hobbes83, 06 avril 2011 - 05:12 .

[Endurium]

To the OP: Mass Effect the series is just Star Trek combined with Starflight, with made-up biology for fun reading and convenience. Welcome to video games.

[xSTONEYx187x]

I don't care what the OP says. 

IT'S JUST A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My God! <_<

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 06 avril 2011 - 05:18 .

[JKoopman]

#2 is something that's boggled me since ME2 was released. ME1 explained it as the quarians actually getting sick, which fit with the concept of them having a weak immune system. Then people pointed out how improbable it was for a species to become infected by an alien microbe when typically we can't even transmit diseases across species on our own planet. So BioWare changed it to an allergic reaction, which tied that up but now contradicts the idea of a weak immune system...

Modifié par JKoopman, 06 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[Marn_Cherone]

I always thought being exposed to vacuum (without suit) would be extremly dangerous, because of the low pressure (beside the extreme cold and radiation). I remember in an interview an astronaut  stated, that if for example his glove would come off, his blood would begin to "cook".
 
(noneheless, its just a sci-fi story. there are alot scientific incorrect aspects in the game. The FTL extplenation for example is physicly still very problematic, though they have interesting ideas...)

How ever I support pointing out these issues to avoid a "dan-brown-syndrome"  

Modifié par Marn_Cherone, 07 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Rekkampum]

Zelnik wrote...

Yes and...no? They scramble and randomize their own DNA with useful DNA patterns found in other races, gaining traits from those races that they can use, and ignoring what they cannot. However, the child is always asari, and its more likely that they are extremely similar to one another due to generations of 'inbreeding'.

An important point to make though is their one known genetic defect (there are almost certainly more) of being an Ardat Yakshi is so rare, that in a society of probably over one hundred billion, only three are known to exist. This suggests but does not prove significant resistance to genetic abnormalities or mutations

This.

[Rekkampum]

Soldier989 wrote...

mrklean007 wrote...

Want something more impossible? FTL travel. Or "Element Zero".

People said we would never fly, people said we would never have anything like electricity, Bill Gates said we would never need more than a couple hundred KB's of RAM, the point is, saying stuff is "impossible" or never going to happen is incredibly stupid, it'll take a long time for humanity to get any kind of machine (like a rocket) to travel at the speed of light, and until we do we won't know if FTL travel is possible or not, until than, the only thing we have is theroies about it and not proven facts.

Theories in science can be supported by overwhelming evidence and can even be considered true for the most part, so let's be sure to differentiate here from a layman's understanding of theory.

[Rekkampum]

JKoopman wrote...

#2 is something that's boggled me since ME2 was released. ME1 explained it as the quarians actually getting sick, which fit with the concept of them having a weak immune system. Then people pointed out how improbable it was for a species to become infected by an alien microbe when typically we can't even transmit diseases across species on our own planet. So BioWare changed it to an allergic reaction, which tied that up but now contradicts the idea of a weak immune system...

Perhaps the reactions can be, as a previous poster explained, the result of side effects due to the immunoboosters being taken to help the immune system.

[matt-bassist]

@OP

pretty sure that in a vacuum there is no temperate. IE room tempearature. i know that the idea that you freeze in space is false, if your suit ruptured or your helmet broke off, you'd first suffocate due to there being no oxygen...

[Scimal]

JKoopman wrote...

#2 is something that's boggled me since ME2 was released. ME1 explained it as the quarians actually getting sick, which fit with the concept of them having a weak immune system. Then people pointed out how improbable it was for a species to become infected by an alien microbe when typically we can't even transmit diseases across species on our own planet. So BioWare changed it to an allergic reaction, which tied that up but now contradicts the idea of a weak immune system...

The allergic reactions are in response to L-Amino Acids, which Human bacteria are composed of.

They still have a weak immune system, and if they're exposed to D-AA diseases, they'll get very ill.

[Lukertin]

Scimal wrote...
The allergic reactions are in response to L-Amino Acids, which Human bacteria are composed of.

That's not really how allergies work

They still have a weak immune system, and if they're exposed to D-AA diseases, they'll get very ill.

If you had a weak immune system you would never have allergies to anything.  The mere fact that you have allergies means your immune system is hyperactive and strong enough to manifest responses

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

Very nicely written and reasoned.

That said, lighten up, Francis. It might be fun to hang around at the mall at Christmastime and tell the kids that Santa isn't real, but that doesn't mean you should do it. It's just a game.

[Fusiox]

I forget where I saw this, but I'm pretty sure there was a planet with a crust "entirely composed of sodium"...

SODIUM? Sodium is one of the most reactive metals known to man! How could a planet composed entirely of sodium stay stable enough to form a planet shape in the first place without reacting violently to, I don't know, water deposited from impacting comets or meteors?

In another story, I kind of dislike the use of dark energy/matter as an "ultimate nectar of the universe". It's been treated similar to the Force from Star Wars; I'm willing to forgive it, due to the fact that biotics need some viable source for their powers. I was thinking that, perhaps, a genetic disorder increased the amount of trace Element Zero or some other substance to a ridiculous amount, allowing the individual to interact with the world via strong magnetic fields or something else... but that would have been ridiculous as well.

And finally, the Mass Relays. I was hoping that an alternative form of interstellar travel could occur, perhaps not even FTL. I would personally enjoy the Relays to warp space-time, opening a so-called "wormhole" to allow ships to cross vast distances without the unpleasant side-effects of extreme instantaneous acceleration. Plus, it would be pretty spooky, looking at a portion of space that appears entirely different from the rest of the environ.

[Fusiox]

Oh... and one more thing... Sorry...

I believe that the "breathers" are not a viable solution for vacuum-exploration. There still is the unpleasant side-effect of extreme unshielded irradiation. If any part of your body was exposed to this radiation, it could have massive effects on your DNA and genetic/organic material, causing cancers, defects, burns, etc.

[jmacrosoft]

JustinTR wrote...

Oh ffs....

made me lol

[BlackAdder117]

Alright! Who's got the bloody popcorn? Pass it to me please!

[Scimal]

Lukertin wrote...
That's not really how allergies work.

Pretty close. Foreign antigens enter your system and set your immune response into overdrive.

While AA's and Nucleotides are pretty poor antigens for a human immune system, the Quarian immune system operates at a fundamentally different level. They could react much more potently to foreign AA's than humans would.

If you had a weak immune system you would never have allergies to anything.  The mere fact that you have allergies means your immune system is hyperactive and strong enough to manifest responses

The response is similar to an allergic reaction - it is not an allergic reaction. Tali says it produces similar results - it need not be identical, and in Quarians who have a different immune response than Humans do - they need not have a strong immune system to manifest those responses.

[Black Raptor]

Bioware trying to make the game sound plausible just makes these oversights that bit worse. It's not like some of them are even integral to the game itself. 

Modifié par Black Raptor, 07 avril 2011 - 03:13 .

[vimpel]

Zelnik wrote...

These are mostly focused on biology, since that is my feild of study, but some of these make me think the writers really did not even consider checking their sources.

1. Humanity has great genetic diversity.
This is not only false, but grossly false.  Of all of the primapes on the planet, we are the LEAST genetically diverse. We are more closely related to a member of the opposite gender on the other side of the planet, then a chimpanzee is related to it's sibling.  Humanity suffered a massive genetic bottleneck some 50,000 years ago (probably due to Mt. Toba exploding), and the results are extremely clear today. The huge amounts of cancers and genetic disorders found in humanity are the best example of this. 

2. A weak Immune system involves fevers, allergic reactions, etc.
This assumption is actually a bit backwards.  If an organism has a STRONG immune system (or hyperactive immune system), the above examples occur.  A WEAK immune system would have no reaction at all to a foreign pathogen, and the only sign of illness would probably be death, or necrosis.  All of the Quarian examples of "weak immune system" make any medical professional very confused (I know, I am one, and so is my father).  The described reactions show more of a hyperactive allergic response.

3. Eating Dexter compounds is a BAD THING!
Splenda would like a word with you.  Yes, it's true that you can develop a response against it, but allrgies to Dextrose are rare, but its MUCH more common for it to just pass through your system.  I understand the hypersensitivity for the quarians, but Turians would probably just have the runs for a while.

4. Dextro-Amino acids could KILL YOU!!!!
Similar to 3, but any immunologist would tell you that this is extremely unlikely. When protiens hit our gut, they are broken down into their individual amino acids (this is assuming our proteases work on dextro-amino-acids).  amino acids are TERRIBLE antigens, since their molecular weight is so small.  Odds are they would not even be absorbed by the intestinal mucosa. 
IF they were NOT broken down by the proteases, the HCL would denature the protien chains, though it would be more likely that these could yeild an immune response (though this is also unlikely, since they probably won't pass through the intestinal mucosa either.

5. You can walk outside in a vaccum with skin exposed.
This should be pretty damn obvious. If a shield breaks down due to radiation from a hot star, why isn't it breaking down from temperatures around 4 Kelvin? 

6. Aliens look just like us.
Seriously.. must everything in science fiction have four limbs, two eyes, one nose, boobs, and...oooo blue skin..

I 'VE TOLD YOU : STFU AND PLAY THE GAME !!!!!!!!