207 réponses à ce sujet

[MrTijger]

Zmajc wrote...

Maybe once SW: TOR is finished and James Ohlen (lead designer of BG2, KOTOR, NWN) is free to take over new projects, things will get a bit better for classic rpg lovers.

We can but hope.

Lead Designer of DAO as well, btw, but TOR wont be finished when its released, its an MMO.

[cindercatz]

My god that's a poor review. It looks like a calcified argument along the lines of a few board posts I've seen. DA2 has its good points and its bad, but it's hardly such a shining example of its kind as to be 'the end of classic RPGs', never mind it's not really even of the genre.

DA2 is to beat 'em ups (like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2, which it most reminds me of mechanically) what Mass Effect 2 is to shooters: a middling example of genre mechanics applied to superior dialogue systems and BioWare stamped storytelling, with less branching than their RPGs generally have.

It's not really a paradigm defining, set the world on fire, sort of game. I'm hoping we can get that game in DA3, but that might just be my wishful thinking. We shall see.

[Dubya75]

Zmajc wrote...

Maybe once SW: TOR is finished and James Ohlen (lead designer of BG2, KOTOR, NWN) is free to take over new projects, things will get a bit better for classic rpg lovers.

We can but hope.

Yes, I'm still hoping they shut down the internet and build more libraries. classic libraries.
The internet is just sooooo dumbed down! 

Modifié par Dubya75, 05 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

What do you mean change is never pleasant ? Some change is, some is not. Change for the sake of change is misguided and will invariably fail.

Even if you like the changes , DA2 is still a substandard game.Dragged up only by higher than average production values.

Shun the unbeliever! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

But all kidding and unicorn quoting aside:

If DA2 is "substandard", then I'll never be able to play DAO again......

Look, I totally disagree re: substandard hyperbole. (Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!) But I can understand that you dislike the game and why. Will you show those who like it the same courtesy?:happy:

[MrTijger]

Dubya75 wrote...

Yes, I'm still hoping they shut down the internet and build more libraries. classic libraries.
The internet is just sooooo dumbed down! 

And you thought you were joking...

[Zmajc]

Dubya75 wrote...

Zmajc wrote...

Maybe once SW: TOR is finished and James Ohlen (lead designer of BG2, KOTOR, NWN) is free to take over new projects, things will get a bit better for classic rpg lovers.

We can but hope.

Yes, I'm still hoping they shut down the internet and build more libraries. classic libraries.
The internet is just sooooo dumbed down! 

I didn't say i want to return into BG2 era but i do want RPG games to retain some level and not get dragged down to CoD level.

Modifié par Zmajc, 05 avril 2011 - 11:11 .

[Siegdrifa]

I disagree with many things, such as "Hawke save the world"... l o l ... play the game again please.
And, "compagnons are more cliché and less intresting than DAO"... could be personnal tast, but in 27 year of video games and RPG, it's the first a game that make my choice difficulte, too much awsome character that i want to bring with me for the vantures.

The end of RPG of old... what a non sens to say when RPG of old is not defined and since many "old" RPG still have unique mechanics of gameplay. "new" in rpg usualy is just a marketing word wihtout real depth.

Streamlined.... i don't care much if it's well made, the most important is to make belive your choices matters, but here for the main story... we painfully feel than everyone want's our opinion BUT they don't give a damn about it, it's really frustrating.
"Hawke, i'm goind to make a mistake, what do you think ???? ...... yhea you are right ..... but still, i'm going to make my mistake" than... just STFU if it was for this waste of time !

The wheel... i have NO problem with ME, in fact i replay them and still enjoy the dialogues.
In DA2, i found the "angelish" "sarcasm" "devilish" totaly dumb in too many case.
Dialogue choice should focus in content matter towars the subject discuced, not a way of telling it. I have hard difficulty to enjoy the dialogue.
When people talk they don't usualy use 3 mode of talking ! they should choose what they would say, not the way they would say it so often.
Shepard, paragon / regenade is great most of the time, you can choose a regenade choice that doesn't end in violent / bad responce.

Other than that i agree, a shame for the copy / paste environement, still i enjoyed the game.

[Warheadz]

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

What do you mean change is never pleasant ? Some change is, some is not. Change for the sake of change is misguided and will invariably fail.

Even if you like the changes , DA2 is still a substandard game.Dragged up only by higher than average production values.

Shun the unbeliever! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

But all kidding and unicorn quoting aside:

If DA2 is "substandard", then I'll never be able to play DAO again......

Look, I totally disagree re: substandard hyperbole. (Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!) But I can understand that you dislike the game and why. Will you show those who like it the same courtesy?:happy:

http://t0.gstatic.co...OKxD1DvKbbw&t=1
http://t0.gstatic.co...Nu9OKxD1DvKbbw]

:mellow::mellow::mellow:

Modifié par Warheadz, 05 avril 2011 - 11:49 .

[AkiKishi]

Persephone wrote...

Shun the unbeliever! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

But all kidding and unicorn quoting aside:

If DA2 is "substandard", then I'll never be able to play DAO again......

Look, I totally disagree re: substandard hyperbole. (Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!) But I can understand that you dislike the game and why. Will you show those who like it the same courtesy?:happy:

Simple anwer. No.

I get that you like DA2. I have no problem with that. However just because you like DA2 does not make it a good game. I like Alpha Protocol, but Alpha Protocol is also not a good game.

Here are some DS III links since I mentioned it an an earlier post.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 05 avril 2011 - 11:14 .

[Silvanus]

Wow, that reviewer must feel he has the ability to speak for a huge swath of individuals (and also applies to DA2 a significant amount of power) when saying, "it’s time that you accept the fact that today’s gamers aren't interested in dice rolls and stat checks."

So let me get this straight: Bioware (which is only one company, mind you) makes one or two games that differ from the more "classic" RPG-heavy titles such as DA:O, NWN, and BG/BG2, and all of a sudden the entire world is changed and no one is ever again going to make something akin to electronic D&D? Overgeneralizing much? Things happen in cycles; right now, the pendulum has swung to the COD/gib-it-up/adventure-style gaming, but it'll swing back another way soon enough.

[Dubya75]

With all the different flavoured reviews out there it is hard to get a big picture of what is really going on.
If we could put together all the points from all the reviews that are repeated (be it good or bad) maybe then we'll be able to compile an accurate review.
For example, almost every review I've read puts the recycled areas into the naughty basket and a similarly large percentage of reviews praise the improved graphics.
Very few reviews really touches on the ever elusive "RPG elements" subject and whether or not DA2 is a true RPG.
In my experience, points not mentioned often (aside from the forum critics) are usually in good shape.

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Shun the unbeliever! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

But all kidding and unicorn quoting aside:

If DA2 is "substandard", then I'll never be able to play DAO again......

Look, I totally disagree re: substandard hyperbole. (Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!) But I can understand that you dislike the game and why. Will you show those who like it the same courtesy?:happy:

Simple anwer. No.

I get that you like DA2. I have no problem with that. However just because you like DA2 does not make it a good game. I like Alpha Protocol, but Alpha Protocol is also not a good game.

Here are some DS III links since I mentioned it an an earlier post.

What does disagreeing with me (Re: What makes a good game) have to do with showing courtesy? As for what makes a good game, lemme try it with a RL life example:

Me: Hey roomie. You like RPGs, right?

Roomie: Yeah, sure.

Me: Try DAO! It's the bestest!

Roomie: *Plays* This is an awful game, I'm sorry. *Returns to playing Heroes of Might and Magic III*

Me: But....it's so awesome.

Roomie: I can see that you like it. It just isn't my kind of game.

Me: Ok. Hey, can I borrow your copy of Heroes III once you're done?

Roomie: Sure!

[MrTijger]

Dubya75 wrote...

With all the different flavoured reviews out there it is hard to get a big picture of what is really going on.
If we could put together all the points from all the reviews that are repeated (be it good or bad) maybe then we'll be able to compile an accurate review.
For example, almost every review I've read puts the recycled areas into the naughty basket and a similarly large percentage of reviews praise the improved graphics.
Very few reviews really touches on the ever elusive "RPG elements" subject and whether or not DA2 is a true RPG.
In my experience, points not mentioned often (aside from the forum critics) are usually in good shape.

We have that, its called Metacritic. Just ignore the user reviews.

[cindercatz]

Persephone wrote...

(Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!)

I've only played the X-Box Live demo of that (a few hours until whenever you die, no saves), but aside from dialogue, it's the better game, and it's got full action RPG gameplay. I couldn't begin to compare plots, though, since I have only played the demo.

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Shun the unbeliever! SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

But all kidding and unicorn quoting aside:

If DA2 is "substandard", then I'll never be able to play DAO again......

Look, I totally disagree re: substandard hyperbole. (Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!) But I can understand that you dislike the game and why. Will you show those who like it the same courtesy?:happy:

Simple anwer. No.

I get that you like DA2. I have no problem with that. However just because you like DA2 does not make it a good game. I like Alpha Protocol, but Alpha Protocol is also not a good game.

Here are some DS III links since I mentioned it an an earlier post.

Interesting. One the left side we have the people who say they like the game. For them, it is a good game.
On the right side (notice, this is "right" as in opposite of left, not opposite of wrong), we have the people who don't like the game and for them it is not a good game.
Seems we have a problem here: Who's to decide whether or not this is in fact a good game or not?

[Persephone]

cindercatz wrote...

Persephone wrote...

(Now if this were Gothic IV......eeeeeek!)

I've only played the X-Box Live demo of that (a few hours until whenever you die, no saves), but aside from dialogue, it's the better game, and it's got full action RPG gameplay. I couldn't begin to compare plots, though, since I have only played the demo.

Well, I won't spoil anything but.....I played it through twice. It's IMO the worst RPG I have ever played. (Among supposed AAA titles that is)

[Dubya75]

Oops, sorry didn't mean to do that. Ignore.

Modifié par Dubya75, 05 avril 2011 - 11:27 .

[MrTijger]

Dubya75 wrote...

Interesting. One the left side we have the people who say they like the game. For them, it is a good game.
On the right side (notice, this is "right" as in opposite of left, not opposite of wrong), we have the people who don't like the game and for them it is not a good game.
Seems we have a problem here: Who's to decide whether or not this is in fact a good game or not?

Everyone decides, hopefully, for themselves. Only idiots follow the masses.

[wright1978]

While i don't agree with every opinion i think his overall score is about right. The fundamental point is true imo that Dragon Age 2 is a different breed of RPG, with the aim to take the fantasy RPG to a wider audience as the Mass Effect series has done so well. However i think hyberbole announcing the death of old school rpgs is premature. There's still a niche in the market that i'm sure others will try and cater for.

[AkiKishi]

Dubya75 wrote...
Interesting. One the left side we have the people who say they like the game. For them, it is a good game.
On the right side (notice, this is "right" as in opposite of left, not opposite of wrong), we have the people who don't like the game and for them it is not a good game.
Seems we have a problem here: Who's to decide whether or not this is in fact a good game or not?

It's not exactly uncommon. Many people think anything they dislike is bad and vice versa. Just look at all the anti pokemon people on here for example. A game that is not to your tastes can still be a good game, that also works the other way around.

DA2 has more than enough flaws to make it bad,even more so when viewed as the sequel it was marketed as. Then it comes down to people overlooking or ignoring those because they enjoy it.

Persephone wrote...
Well, I won't spoil anything but.....I played it through twice. It's IMO the worst RPG I have ever played. (Among supposed AAA titles that is)

Why would you play the worst RPG you have ever played twice ?

Modifié par BobSmith101, 05 avril 2011 - 11:30 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Persephone wrote...

You know, I remember this being said about NWN and its sequels, DAO, ME, The Witcher and now DAII....and yet....given all these amazing titles, I have never loved the RPG genre more.

This! 

It's a pretty common complaint.

[huwie]

An interesting snippet from the review:

"Because you never spoke there was always a certain degree of separation between your created character and the world he inhabited which made sure that any sense of immersion would be removed despite the game’s wonderful world and rich history."

I think they got that wrong. I felt greater character IDENTIFICATION with Hawke because of the voice -- FemHawke's voice acting really pulled me in -- but I felt greater IMMERSION in Ferelden because of the more fully-realised and intricately textured world. It's also possible that making the controlled character as unobtrusive as possible, reduces what you might call the "perceptional barrier" between the player and the game world.

I also felt greater AFFECTION for many of the Origins characters, and thinking about it, that might have partly been because I was less wrapped up in the main character and thus had more attention to devote to the others.

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...
Interesting. One the left side we have the people who say they like the game. For them, it is a good game.
On the right side (notice, this is "right" as in opposite of left, not opposite of wrong), we have the people who don't like the game and for them it is not a good game.
Seems we have a problem here: Who's to decide whether or not this is in fact a good game or not?

It's not exactly uncommon. Many people think anything they dislike is bad and vice versa. Just look at all the anti pokemon people on here for example. A game that is not to your tastes can still be a good game, that also works the other way around.

DA2 has more than enough flaws to make it bad,even more so when viewed as the sequel it was marketed as. Then it comes down to people overlooking or ignoring those because they enjoy it.

Persephone wrote...
Well, I won't spoil anything but.....I played it through twice. It's IMO the worst RPG I have ever played. (Among supposed AAA titles that is)

Why would you play the worst RPG you have ever played twice ?

Coz maybe each game she played since was better.

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Well, I won't spoil anything but.....I played it through twice. It's IMO the worst RPG I have ever played. (Among supposed AAA titles that is)

Why would you play the worst RPG you have ever played twice ?

Several reasons:

One: I like Jowood games usually and they rarely disappointed me before.

Two: I wanted to see if a second go may deepen the experience. It did not.

Three: I'm a masochist.