207 réponses à ce sujet

[cljqnsnyc]

Dridengx wrote...

"Dragon Age 2 marks the end of the RPG genre of old. For gamers such as me who grew up on a diet of dice rolls and D&D lore it may come as a bitter pill to swallow"

lol what I've been saying for weeks now. all the whiners can't accept change.I imagine them being like those who couldn't live without records, vhs tapes, black and white tv, and typewriters lol

You're welcomed to your opinon. Here's mine

I love how this whole "you're old and outdated philosphy" keeps getting regurgitated over and over. I guess the idea is if people repeat it enough times, maybe someone might actually believe it?  Funnier still is the 'whinners can't accept change" slogan. Honestly. As an independent thinker who is immune to corporate jargon and catch phrares, I wish you well in that new and exciting world of rpgs...where choices don't matter, customization is unheard of, exploration is limited, and playing a role is irrelevant. But hey, at least you'll have super duper fast combat! Yippie! 

If this is the new direction for Bioware's rpgs,  then I'll gladly take my old rocking chair, old loyalty, and more importantly, my old money,  elsewhere. 

 Side note

It's ironic to suggest that people who are no longer teenagers can't deal with change. Last time I checked, being older means you've actually witnessed and lived through change. If that isn't the best example of dealing with change, I don't know what else is.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 05 avril 2011 - 07:32 .

[fallingseraph]

Dragon Age 2 is so bad they have to give away Mass Effect 2 http://www.facebook.com/dragonage

[Statulos]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Hawke does not save (or change) the world. Varric's stories lead the Seeker (and others) to believe that Hawke was the catalyst for everything that happened, but it is slowly revealed to us and the Seeker (at the same time) that in fact Hawke was just trying to survive and all the stuff happened around him. He didn't attack the <spoiler>, he didn't blow up the <spoiler>, he didn't attack <spoiler>...he just was at the wrong place at the wrong time while all this stuff happened around him. No matter what, bad stuff was going down and nothing he could say or do would stop it.

That's the entire storyline of the game, that Hawke's REAL story has to be told, that he didn't cause the Templar/Mage war (aka save/change the world).

This is fact, not opinion.

On opinion tho-- I disagree with the reviewer because I'm an old skool RPGer and think DA2 was an merely a 2nd rate action RPG with a terrible 3rd act and a decent middle. But that's only my opinion, just like everyone has one.

Like you posted, the formula of a powerless main character swing by the waves and wind is great for novels or films, but not that great for RPG's.

Taking out the fact that the game could have been better in its own terms, the lack of agency in the plot feels like Hawke's story was an excuse to talk about other stuff. Sure, I like RPG's where you do not save the world (or doom it) or where you just try to survive out there; but I wished you could have a bigger impact in those little things arround you like your social consideration or your wealth.

[AkiKishi]

Dridengx wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Animations get a little faster and people start crying "the end of rpgs of old!" But they say that with every rpg that is not BG anyway.

Remember when Diablo came out? they bashed the hell out of it saying it was dumbed down, wasn't a real RPG, and made fun to all hell. Now, look, who knew what lol.

Diablo was very good at what it did. DA2 even as an action game is poor.

[A Forgotten Tome]

Zmajc wrote...

It would be pleasant if they bothered to make a full game not half a game with recycled maps, no real decisions, pointless side quests, huge plot holes and really really bad companions.

Recycled Maps? Yes.
Real Decisions? Plenty
Pointless Side Quests? Only most of Act 1
Huge Plot Holes? DLC; and yes that is a problem I would agree with
Bad Companions? I hope Bianca says hello to you, jackass.

[Rockworm503]

yes yes and the platformer died with the Wii
and the good shooter died with Call of Duty
and the adventure genre died period lol.
I'm seeing a trend here.
People are so quick to think the worst like DA2 was the last RPG to ever be made and no one will ever make another one ever again.
Same with Call of Duty I might hate those games with a passion but I've been enjoying Far Cry 2 lately and thats a straight up shooter.
Damn the platformer is still around with Assassin's Creed lol.

I personally wish we'd just stop with the labels.

[neppakyo]

DA2 isn't a good cinematic RPG imho. ME2 was a much better one, both games are RPG-lite to my tastes, difference is, I LIKE ME2.

[Lumikki]

So, booring this end of world talk, when something isn't exactly how it use to be or how someone wants it to be. Like sayed million times, no-one can stop time, progress will happens. Be a grandfather who talks about "the good old days", if you must, but don't drag others in your own personal mud. *wink*

Modifié par Lumikki, 05 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[Statulos]

neppakyo wrote...

DA2 isn't a good cinematic RPG imho. ME2 was a much better one, both games are RPG-lite to my tastes, difference is, I LIKE ME2.

Like I said, I don't want the coming back of hardcore RPG's (Betrayal at Krondor, Eye of the Beholder seres) or action adventures (like Ecstatica) from the old times; but that does not mean that I want more crossovers that do not completely cut it like DA2.

ME2 was nice because we knew the whole thing from the first game. ME2 builds upon the previous but is essentially the same experience. DA2 feels way too different on many different levels.

Lidlow was right about evolution, but I don't necessarily like his particular version of it.

Modifié par Statulos, 05 avril 2011 - 07:13 .

[Barefoot Warrior]

What is sad (to me) is that DA2 had/has so much potential, I really do believe that. I can't relate to much to the ME series as I played ME2 and didn't like it, then tried ME1 and never finished it, even though I am a sci-fi fan. Loved the Normandy, beautiful ship, but ME2 just isn't my kind of game and have no desire for ME3, especially after what happened with DA2. oh well...kind of a moot point now I suppose.

[neppakyo]

Statulos wrote...

Lidlow was right about evolution, but I don't necessarily like his particular version of it.

I'm fine with evolution, but what happened with DA2 was that. Probably his version of evolution is 30 minutes of cutscenes followed by 10 minutes of battle ala Final Fantasy/MGS.

DA2 had pontential, but failed miserably. The rise to power was a nifty idea, and would of been better without the framed narrative approach (bioware failed at this method of story telling, lack of time probably)

[Statulos]

neppakyo wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Lidlow was right about evolution, but I don't necessarily like his particular version of it.

I'm fine with evolution, but what happened with DA2 was that. Probably his version of evolution is 30 minutes of cutscenes followed by 10 minutes of battle ala Final Fantasy/MGS.

DA2 had pontential, but failed miserably. The rise to power was a nifty idea, and would of been better without the framed narrative approach (bioware failed at this method of story telling, lack of time probably)

I actually like the plot structure and ideas. Framed is not an issue and I love when Varric starts BS-ing. The problem is not the structure, the problem is the interaction between mechanics and plot. If you add the limited time to develop the last and an oversimplification of the first...

Yes, DA2 looks better finished, but I think that visual quality has sacrificed a lot playability and interaction, the two core elements of an RPG.

[neppakyo]

Statulos wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Lidlow was right about evolution, but I don't necessarily like his particular version of it.

I'm fine with evolution, but what happened with DA2 was that. Probably his version of evolution is 30 minutes of cutscenes followed by 10 minutes of battle ala Final Fantasy/MGS.

DA2 had pontential, but failed miserably. The rise to power was a nifty idea, and would of been better without the framed narrative approach (bioware failed at this method of story telling, lack of time probably)

I actually like the plot structure and ideas. Framed is not an issue and I love when Varric starts BS-ing. The problem is not the structure, the problem is the interaction between mechanics and plot. If you add the limited time to develop the last and an oversimplification of the first...

Yes, DA2 looks better finished, but I think that visual quality has sacrificed a lot playability and interaction, the two core elements of an RPG.

Yeah, thats what I mean with the failure of the framed narrative. It doesn't feel like it belongs in this game along with the mechanics, hell, even the environments.

The graphics were not really much of an improvement. If they're doing another DA game, this engine has to go. Perhaps license the engine CD Projekt made for TW2. 

[NedPepper]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Change for the sake of change is unnecessary. Change when it is required...something else entirely. I don't recall any fan outcry to change DAO into DA2...a game that is not receiving anywhere near the same sort of praise by the fans, critics, and most importantly, the intended COD crowd. So, with all of this. Was "change" a good thing? Removing the elements of customization, exploration, role playing, and real choice in an rpg is indeed change. It effectively changes it into something else. DAO? Decay? Really? I think the sales figures of that game would render your opinon irrelavant.

About this 'byers never got past Ostagar nonsense'.

This defies logic! If it were true, how could DAO possibly sell the amount of copies it did, which were largely based on word of mouth? Are you really going to recommend a game to someone that you couldn't complete? i'm just not that guliable. Logic and histroy blow that argument out the window. If I wanted to form a focus group of people who like Coke over Pepsi then asked them which was better? I'd get the answer I was hoping for. You get the idea.

I personally know two people who quit after Ostagar.  I didn't get it, but they did.  It was too slow, or they didn't like the combat style.  Hoping for more of an Oblilvion style.....

I love Dragon Age because it's NOT Oblivion....there's an actual plot.

Point is: if I know two gamers myself, and I imagine there are others as well, and Bioware has information on this...I'm gonna guess it was common.

[Statulos]

Again, framed narrative is just a technique for storytelling. Just as Max Payne games start with the end and all the game is an explanation of that final moment (same thing as DA2, you know you're important, the game explores how).

What disappointed me from DA2 is not the plot, nor the characters, not even the environment! It's the lack of interactivity with the scenario I am given. Yes, there was a terrible lack of interactivity in the old RPG's I mentioned and suddenly, Bioware started changing that. Now we're going back to that. Why?

[Serpieri Nei]

Dubya75 wrote...

Read the review here.
Perhaps this is why such a large part of the community is so unhappy? Change is never pleasant...however, DA2 is indeed very pleasant!

So you found the recycled enviorments, repetitive gameplay, the loss of choices/control, and the mindless waves of mystical ninjas very pleasant?

[Zhijn]

I keep seeing these post that Dragon Age is evolving or have changed to something new, you fear change blabla, which baffles me quite abit.

Dragon Age II isnt anything new, it hasnt evolved at all. Its a simple copy & past from the Mass Effect style of cinematic gameplay. Its a style thats easy to combind action and simple rpg. emphasis on action. Sure the framed narrative is a nice breath of fresh air on storytelling, but overall this aint anything new and is actually a "static" step, not back not forward but something simple to the mass market.

Tho if thats what the market wants in todays rpg's, i gues ill have no choice but to jump the bandwagon. However not befor i have made my disappointment very clear.

Modifié par Zhijn, 05 avril 2011 - 08:07 .

[Rockpopple]

A Forgotten Tome wrote...

Zmajc wrote...

It would be pleasant if they bothered to make a full game not half a game with recycled maps, no real decisions, pointless side quests, huge plot holes and really really bad companions.

Recycled Maps? Yes.
Real Decisions? Plenty
Pointless Side Quests? Only most of Act 1
Huge Plot Holes? DLC; and yes that is a problem I would agree with
Bad Companions? I hope Bianca says hello to you, jackass.

Hehehe, Nice.

[AkiKishi]

neppakyo wrote...

DA2 isn't a good cinematic RPG imho. ME2 was a much better one, both games are RPG-lite to my tastes, difference is, I LIKE ME2.

Cinematics and choices don't really go together. You can't have a character be too expressive when there are multiple ways of replying to someone.

Once you compare DA to something totally pre-scripted like Uncharted 2 , it comes across as wooden and disjointed. It's always going to be a compromise of sorts, but you should try to get the best out of the cinematics in a cinematic game.

[Cybermortis]

same thing as DA2, you know you're important, the game explores how

I assume you are important because Hawke has a magical ability to look at random objects and know who will give him/her money for them - and where to find said person.


The graphics are, to me, not better than DAO. There are hundreds of graphical glitches, my favourite involves a dead Quinari levitating some three feet off the ground. Most of these are clipping issues, and they appear during the narration - look at the Seekers hands during some of the scenes, her hands pass through her legs.

[Dark83]

Madkipz wrote...
He is just a tool good at fighting that happened to fight the right guys at the right moments.

Do you even listen to yourself?

Doing the right thing, in the right place, at the right time, is what makes heroes. Look at the list of recipiants of the Congressional Medal of Honor. They did their job, where they were supposed to, when they needed to.

[1varangian]

DA2 definitely does not mark anything of the sort. The majority of RPG fans are turned off by the direction DA2 has taken and I'm sure there will continue to be demand for proper tactical dark fantasy RPG's.

DA2 is more devolution than evolution. It is merely an attempt to appeal to a wider audience and sell more.

[scpulley]

Madkipz wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

I kind of missed the part in DA2 where the reviewer says that Hawke saves the world...

Where the heck does that even happen?  

Indeed, Hawke CHANGES the world. The reviewer did get that slightly wrong.

No, he sits idly by and watches the world change. Just because he was present and the other catalysts for the entire mage templar ordeal are dead does not make him some kind of world changing champion. He is just a tool good at fighting that happened to fight the right guys at the right moments.

Pretty much this. They game just lost itself badly in act 3 because the climax of the story didn't connect to Hawke personally nearly enough. There was no resolution, which can be an effective tool for a story to be left open, but in this case the main protagonist didn't have much input at all with the end result, so you are left confused not hungry for more. The review I thought was decent compared to some, it didn't overly bash the game, it wasn't flowery or more positive than the game deserved, it was a 4/5 which seems good. A decent game that was fun, but that ending was horribly underwelming for a company that usually has story be it's best feature.

[Cybermortis]

They game just lost itself badly in act 3 because the climax of the story didn't connect to Hawke personally nearly enough. There was no resolution, which can be an effective tool for a story to be left open, but in this case the main protagonist didn't have much input at all with the end result, so you are left confused not hungry for more.

Compare to ME2, which regardless of what you thought of the game itself left me wanting to know what happens next...did I make the 'right' choices in my playthroughs....?

[Serpieri Nei]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

"Dragon Age 2 marks the end of the RPG genre of old. For gamers such as me who grew up on a diet of dice rolls and D&D lore it may come as a bitter pill to swallow"

lol what I've been saying for weeks now. all the whiners can't accept change.I imagine them being like those who couldn't live without records, vhs tapes, black and white tv, and typewriters lol

You're welcomed to your opinon. Here's mine

I love how this whole "you're old and outdated philosphy" keeps getting regurgitated over and over. I guess the idea is if people repeat it enough times, maybe someone might actually believe it?  Funnier still is the 'whinners can't accept change" slogan. Honestly. As an independent thinker who is immune to corporate jargon and catch phrares, I wish you well in that new and exciting world of rpgs...where choices don't matter, customization is unheard of, exploration is limited, and playing a role is irrelevant. But hey, at least you'll have super duper fast combat! Yippie! 

If this is the new direction for Bioware's rpgs,  then I'll gladly take my old rocking chair, old loyalty, and more importantly, my old money,  elsewhere. 

 Side note

It's ironic to suggest that people who are no longer teenagers can't deal with change. Last time I checked, being older means you've actually witnessed and lived through change. If that isn't the best example of dealing with change, I don't know what else is.

With age comes Wisdom.

Very well said.