86 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

I think it's an awesome mystery, and could merit further exploration in an expansion or DLC.

[Mnemnosyne]

Nah, the vials were separate. Gaxkang was the story that came up in a handful of codex entries and that one dwarf in Orzammar, then led to the showdown with Gaxkang in the alley in Denerim.

Also, I'm mistaken about the Forgotten Ones - it's actually 'forbidden ones' mentioned in that codex entry.

"The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones- Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born." ―Unknown Mage

[TobiTobsen]

Koyasha wrote...

I forget which codex it is, but one of them lists the names of the Forgotten Ones, and Gaxkang the Unbound is among them. I am not sure what significance this might have but it seemed worth mentioning.

So...  Imshael and The Formless One are still missing. These four teached the first form of blood magic if I'm not wrong. But why would the Magisters summon them again? Another trip to the black city?

[Blacklash93]

edit: jumped the gun, there.

I hope we get DLC to solve this mystery. It's very interesting.

It's also right under Kirkwall. Ignoring it would not only be a waste, it would also be utterly stupid.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 05 avril 2011 - 09:27 .

[Alamar2078]

I actually thought that the end-game story would revolve around this point.

I've only finished the game once but IMHO Anders shouldn't have had to power to just smoke the chantry like that. Did he tap into some of the powers in question??

[mesmerizedish]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I actually thought that the end-game story would revolve around this point.

I've only finished the game once but IMHO Anders shouldn't have had to power to just smoke the chantry like that. Did he tap into some of the powers in question??

Saltpeter and sulfur. He made magic gunpowder.

[Rifneno]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I actually thought that the end-game story would revolve around this point.

I've only finished the game once but IMHO Anders shouldn't have had to power to just smoke the chantry like that. Did he tap into some of the powers in question??

The ingredients he asks you to gather are actually raw materials for explosives.  Why did the Chantry implode first before exploding, how does he do it even if you refuse to get him the stuff?  Because the plot said so.

[Alamar2078]

Rifneno wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

I actually thought that the end-game story would revolve around this point.

I've only finished the game once but IMHO Anders shouldn't have had to power to just smoke the chantry like that. Did he tap into some of the powers in question??

The ingredients he asks you to gather are actually raw materials for explosives.  Why did the Chantry implode first before exploding, how does he do it even if you refuse to get him the stuff?  Because the plot said so.

I know the chemical composition of gunpowder ... I don't recall what he had me gather for the "potion" again.   Note:  I cut him off on furthering the quest when i found out that he misled me so maybe I didn't explore far enough.

EDIT:  Maybe the cinematics misled me but the red column of "blood magic doom" sure didn't look like an explosion to me.   Was it rendered badly or did I miss something else???

Modifié par Alamar2078, 05 avril 2011 - 09:41 .

[mesmerizedish]

Alamar2078 wrote...

EDIT:  Maybe the cinematics misled me but the red column of "blood magic doom" sure didn't look like an explosion to me.   Was it rendered badly or did I miss something else???

Like I said. Magic gunpowder.

[Alamar2078]

Ahhhh Magic Gunpowder ... now I'm tracking

If you just look at the cinematic though it certainly looks like he tapped into something a lot more powerful / unique than lyrium dust or gatlog [or however the Qun pronounce it]

[Amagoi]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

I forget which codex it is, but one of them lists the names of the Forgotten Ones, and Gaxkang the Unbound is among them. I am not sure what significance this might have but it seemed worth mentioning.

So...  Imshael and The Formless One are still missing. These four teached the first form of blood magic if I'm not wrong. But why would the Magisters summon them again? Another trip to the black city?

Wasn't it, at least according to the Chantry, the Old Gods that orginally taught the magisters blood magic? I wonder if the two groups are connected. If so, it would also bring up what the Wardens are so desperate to find in the Deep Roads around Kirkwall, and being very secretive about.

It's a really good puzzle. The more you try to figure it out, the more questions come up. <3

[Blacklash93]

Amagoi wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

I forget which codex it is, but one of them lists the names of the Forgotten Ones, and Gaxkang the Unbound is among them. I am not sure what significance this might have but it seemed worth mentioning.

So...  Imshael and The Formless One are still missing. These four teached the first form of blood magic if I'm not wrong. But why would the Magisters summon them again? Another trip to the black city?

Wasn't it, at least according to the Chantry, the Old Gods that orginally taught the magisters blood magic? I wonder if the two groups are connected. If so, it would also bring up what the Wardens are so desperate to find in the Deep Roads around Kirkwall, and being very secretive about.

It's a really good puzzle. The more you try to figure it out, the more questions come up. <3

Avernus (Warden's Keep scientist) apparently found something very alarming about the taint in his research. Perhaps the issues with the Grey Wardens are related to that.

And the Grey Wardens weren't just exploring around with Kirkwall in mind. They wanted to follow Hawke's expedition route due to interest in the oldest parts of the deep roads.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 05 avril 2011 - 10:11 .

[kedcoleman]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Anarcala wrote...

Maybe it's the place where the Tevinter Mages entered the Fade and caused the Black City in the first place.

It's what I assumed.

Though the question then is: Why there?

A combination of things, many of which are mentioned already:  geography, geological composition, the natural port for slave transport, a possibly naturally thinner Veil and also, it seems a place of power for the ancient Elvhen.  The Sundermount was an important location for them.  

[Blacklash93]

kedcoleman wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Anarcala wrote...

Maybe it's the place where the Tevinter Mages entered the Fade and caused the Black City in the first place.

It's what I assumed.

Though the question then is: Why there?

A combination of things, many of which are mentioned already:  geography, geological composition, the natural port for slave transport, a possibly naturally thinner Veil and also, it seems a place of power for the ancient Elvhen.  The Sundermount was an important location for them.  

The author brings all of those into question. If he does, then so should we.

[Conduit0]

The answer is obvios, The Magisters were trying to improve their cable reception. Its terrible being stuck out in the boonies.

[Morroian]

Amagoi wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

I forget which codex it is, but one of them lists the names of the Forgotten Ones, and Gaxkang the Unbound is among them. I am not sure what significance this might have but it seemed worth mentioning.

So...  Imshael and The Formless One are still missing. These four teached the first form of blood magic if I'm not wrong. But why would the Magisters summon them again? Another trip to the black city?

Wasn't it, at least according to the Chantry, the Old Gods that orginally taught the magisters blood magic? 

Perhaps thats an indication of how untrustworthy chantry sources are. They will twist anything to suit their dogma.

[Aganerral]

As others have mentioned, I think we need to keep in mind that whatever about the Kirkwall region wmade it special, it was special before the Imperium got there, and the tevinters did their wacky experiments there for that reason. I forget where, but there were comments made at some point that the elves made an especially fierce (last?) stand at Sundermount...there must have been some reason for that. I also remember Merrill saying something about it being odd that the elders were buried at the top of the mountain, though that could have jsut been complaining about the climb up If the Chantry's stroies are at least partially true, that would be before the Golden City was tainted and the first Blights. So maybe Kirkwall was the site of the cross over into the Fade...but it still doesn't answer why Kirkwall. I do hope that we get more answers. There are lots of interesting story and historical tidbits throughout both games that point to a well fleshed out world structure that I'd like to learn more about.

[Augustei]

I gotta say this is the most interesting topic I have found on this forum for a while. I missed all that stuff about the band of 3 and didn't know what you were talking about OP.. Damn! why did I miss it? regarding the tombs i decided to read the first one lol

[kedcoleman]

Well, you could be onto something there, Aganerral.
I forget just which codex entry it was in, but there was a description of the ancient Elvhen, before they lost their immortality, in which it described the elders going into a lengthy sleep when they grew weary of the world. If the elders were interred on Sundermount, perhaps that is why the elves defended it so fiercely?

[Big I]

I don't know if this is related, but in one of the DA2 codex entries (History of the Chantry I believe) it mentions that Andraste spent a day in reflection on Sundermount after her army took Kirkwall, and when she came down the next day she was weeping.

[kedcoleman]

I wonder what Andraste experienced there.

[Emperor Iaius I]

blothulfur wrote...

Perhaps the magisters were not consciously trying to do anything, perhaps the demons that they dealt with in their unthinking lust for power were subconsciously calling the shots.

The demons did not control them. They bent the demons--and dragons--to their will. That's how they destroyed Arlathan. Taronhe notes that it is axiomatic that the ancient Tevinter did not become demonic thralls.

As far as an unthinking lust for power--that's an unwarranted slur. It is unacceptable to pour calumnies upon a person's mental faculties because you happen to disagree with them.

Perhaps thats an indication of how untrustworthy chantry sources are. They will twist anything to suit their dogma.

Why? It is well established that the Tevinter worshipped only the Old Gods and obeyed only their commands, not those of the demons. They moved against the Maker's citadel in order to free the gods that he had spitefully imprisoned, and they obey their call still even after afflicted with the Maker's cruelties.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 06 avril 2011 - 05:59 .

[Rifneno]

Morroian wrote...

Perhaps thats an indication of how untrustworthy chantry sources are. They will twist anything to suit their dogma.

I agree.  The only thing less trustworthy than an organized religion is an organized religion in a video game.  Anyway, few points as I'm too lazy to quote the multiple posts...

-  The question of "Why Kirkwall?" is a good one.  When I said I didn't think the Tevinter's experiments were connected to the Primordial Thaig I hadn't considered the possibility that they picked Kirkwall because of something in the area.  An excellent point, kudos.

-  I've seen quite a few mentions of blood magic in regards to Anders' jihad bomb (not just in this thread, in several).  Not to get into another Anders debate (lord knows I'm in enough of those in other threads), but I think it was force magic, not blood.  The building seems to implode inward before exploding.  That kind of thing reeks of the gravity manipulation of force magic, which is for some reason fairly common in Kirkwall.  My theory is that force magic was used to draw a large structure into a small enough area for a primitive bomb to destroy.

- Yeah, I think it was a big mistake to hide the Band of Three story in the codex.  At first I thought it was cool; I love when you can go through a story while paying attention, have it make sense, and then pick up on things you missed previously the next time through.  But seriously doubt more than a single digit percentage of the playerbase reads much of the codex and the Band of Three's findings are critically important to the story.  This entire game poses a moral question to you and most people are making their decision without the most important piece of the story.  How many players have you seen say "mages are too big a danger, I agree with Meredith" only to react in surprise when they find out Kirkwall almost inevitably drives mages insane or evil and they're vastly safer elsewhere?

- Aveline's headband is stupid.  There, I said it.

[Anarcala]

Yeah, I think it was a big mistake to hide the Band of Three story in the codex. At first I thought it was cool; I love when you can go through a story while paying attention, have it make sense, and then pick up on things you missed previously the next time through. But seriously doubt more than a single digit percentage of the playerbase reads much of the codex and the Band of Three's findings are critically important to the story. This entire game poses a moral question to you and most people are making their decision without the most important piece of the story. How many players have you seen say "mages are too big a danger, I agree with Meredith" only to react in surprise when they find out Kirkwall almost inevitably drives mages insane or evil and they're vastly safer elsewhere?

There is actually an achievement you can get if you collect all the Band of Three codexes in each act (as there is with killing the Forgotten Ones). This suggests a plot that'll be further expanded via DLC or taken into DA:3.

[Herr Uhl]

Anarcala wrote...

There is actually an achievement you can get if you collect all the Band of Three codexes in each act (as there is with killing the Forgotten Ones). This suggests a plot that'll be further expanded via DLC or taken into DA:3.

There is also an achievement for looting random crates. So I wouldn't read too much into that.