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[ModernMan2009]

More than likely the design of the city was intended to reduce the barrier between the fade and assist with the research of more powerful Blood Magic rituals. Kirkwall was probably chosen since it had ready access to materials,slaves and talent. It would not be surprising to later learn the rituals were intended to gain power for the local mage lords of Kirkwall and use it overthrow the leaders of the Imperium.

Modifié par ModernMan2009, 06 avril 2011 - 12:55 .

[Blacklash93]

The author presents a ton of questions that can't be answered simply by "They were trying to get into the Black City agian." or "They were just practicing blood rituals and weakening the Veil for the sake of it." Especially with the Forgotten Ones getting a few mentions.

Why do people always come to the most boring conclusions...

Modifié par Blacklash93, 08 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[Aganerral]

So just for wild theories then, what if the order of events is wrong...that it wasn't man's incursion into the golden city that made it black. What if something corrupted the Golden City, and the Tevinters tried to physically enter the Fade to figure out what went wrong and try to fix it? If these things happened close together time-wise, it could easily be jumbled several centuries down the road, but given that the Imperium was not well liked, then crippled by the Darkspawn and Andraste's war, the tale could easily be twisted to blame them.

Granted, this still doesn't explain the Enigma of Kirkwall, but it makes for an interesting spin on history.

[PantheraOnca]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

What kind of Glyph is this, if it looks like any Glyph?

/snip

A Glyph usually has a circle around it, at least in Dragon Age.

Thats more a conceptual drawing of Kirkwall than an actual map. Or at least that is how I interpretted it.

The best thing to do would be to take the minimaps of each kirkwall zone and loosely join them together to see if any particular symbols form.

If we assume that there is a or several symbols embedded in the structure of kirkwall, we could take the wall to be the "circle" around it.

i.e. if kirkwall forms an "a" then kirkwall plus wall forms "@" kind of thing.

[Sarielle]

This has been one of my favorite little discoveries. I LOVED reading the Enigma codex entries, though apparently I missed at least one having not gotten the achievement that I know of. I don't know the answers, but I thought I'd point out a few things.

As Maferath's armies toppled the Imperium, they sent three magisters and their legions here. They never arrived. But why march here of all places? What were they coming for?

This reinforces that as early as the first Exalted March, there was plenty to be worth sending magisters to Kirkwall for. Ergo, they might have thought whatever was here could help them defeat Maferath's (Andraste's husband) armies.

The histories give conflicting accounts on who lived here before the Imperium. Some say the Alamarri. Some say the Daefads.

This may be totally unrelated. But the Alamarri were plagued by werewolves, supposedly when a warrior's wolf companion betrayed his master to "evil gods" to learn to walk in human shape. Further evidence of the Veil already being thin, if these evil gods were demons? This is the only reference to Daefads I can find, too.

The magisters had hundreds of mages deep below Kirkwall. They lived and researched here, far from the scrutiny of common men. Many ancient cities specialized in arcane research, but why did Kirkwall hide its efforts here? Why go to such great pains to keep it out of sight?

So obviously whatever they were up to, it was secret stuff, even for Magisters who openly practice many forms of magic considered quite questionable.

After pursuing another dead end, we were attacked by maleficarum. I fear V. will not make it.

Any famous V's we know of in history? I'm drawing a blank. Same with an F. who is referred to as dead later.

But I saw the records the templars say do not exist.

This suggests the Chantry is also covering this up. -boggle-



EDIT: As to Kirkwall not looking like a rune now, they entries did say "the oldest streets," so presumably Kirkwall has grown over time and the whole city probably wouldn't reflect that now.

Modifié par Sarielle, 09 avril 2011 - 12:39 .

[noxsachi]

Aganerral wrote...

So just for wild theories then, what if the order of events is wrong...that it wasn't man's incursion into the golden city that made it black. What if something corrupted the Golden City, and the Tevinters tried to physically enter the Fade to figure out what went wrong and try to fix it? If these things happened close together time-wise, it could easily be jumbled several centuries down the road, but given that the Imperium was not well liked, then crippled by the Darkspawn and Andraste's war, the tale could easily be twisted to blame them.

Granted, this still doesn't explain the Enigma of Kirkwall, but it makes for an interesting spin on history.

The whole entering the Black City thing I never really bought, as it just seemed too convenient, but especially once you meet the Architect. The Old Gods and just what they are has always intriguied me, even if I loath Tevintir. I do hope we eventually learn more about their nature.

[Dervla]

Avernus (Warden's Keep scientist) apparently found something very alarming about the taint in his research. Perhaps the issues with the Grey Wardens are related to that.

And the Grey Wardens weren't just exploring around with Kirkwall in mind. They wanted to follow Hawke's expedition route due to interest in the oldest parts of the deep roads.

I don't think this is related to Kirkwall to be honest.
He seemed to be researching how Darkspawn-tainted blood; Grey Warden Blood to be exact interacted with Blood Magic.

Which is a topic worth discussing all by itself.

I think the idol found in the primordial Thaig was what the Wardens were looking for, I think it has some links to the Old Gods and may hold a clue as to the origins of the Darkspawn Taint.

[Mnemnosyne]

Here's a thought that might be significant: Has anyone found any indication of when the Band of Three were doing this investigation? I do not recall anything that might give a time reference to it, but the date or age might be pretty meaningful.

[Super_Fr33k]

It was touched on earlier in this thread, I believe, but I'd like to bring it up again.

Is there anything that contradicts Kirkwall possibly being the original site from which the magisters physically entered the Fade and the Golden City?

The scale of the magical design and construction of the city, along with the presence of massive amounts of slaves, certainly suggests an adequate site. The author of the codex entries suggests the Golden City was already tainted, and that Kirkwall was some secondary project, but what would make that correct?

He also mentions slaves disappearing in the 312th year of the Imperium. Assuming he's measuring from the beginning of the Imperium, and the Dragon Age wiki is right, this is roughly 500 years before they attempted to enter the Fade. However, even this doesn't shoot the idea down-- he mentions "over centuries" an entire civilization's worth of slaves disappeared.

I welcome any information shooting this down. I'm just saying from what I've been able to find, it seems entirely possibly the Magisters experimented, over centuries, on how to physically enter the Fade, and Kirkwall might be where they attempted it.

A good counter-point, however, is this: If Kirkwall was where the Magisters entered the Fade, tainted the Golden City and became the first darkspawn, why isn't there evidence of darkspawn ransacking the city? Could be that the taint took time to take effect, and they all left the city in search of the Old Gods before they went a-rampaging...

[Marduksdragon]

Asdara wrote...

You mean all those bound vials we were happily breaking as we rampaged through Ferelden last game? That's a shame... should have put better labels on those puppies.

No, Gaxkang lives in a house in an ally in Denerim. You find notes scattered around by other adventurers whom he lures there specifically to kill.

[Rifneno]

Thread necromancy! Quick, summon a butcher templar!

[Marduksdragon]

Rifneno wrote...

Thread necromancy! Quick, summon a butcher templar!

I think this thread is interesting, it's one of the reasons I posted.

Now that I'm better awake, I'll post what I intended to post last night.

What if Vengeance's blowing up the Chantry was two-fold? What if, in the glyphs, the Chantry represented a seal and he released whatever it was?

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:37 .

[noneofyourbussines77]

I found an interesting conection. The idol from the primeval thaig made bertrand hear a song. In Awakening the Mother and the Architect both describe a song that compels them to find the arch demon. There must be a conection and that is to much of a coicedance to not think tevinter is involved

[DRTJR]

I think they where going for a super weapon that could wipe out entire army by a mass city wide sacrifice.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Koyasha wrote...

Here's a thought that might be significant: Has anyone found any indication of when the Band of Three were doing this investigation? I do not recall anything that might give a time reference to it, but the date or age might be pretty meaningful.

I wondered about this myself and wondered if our Warden is tracking this.  Seems like something that Morrigan might need to know or in regards to the books she left the warden if you let her go.   I was intrigued by the initials of V and F.  Velanna and Finn maybe traveling with the Grey Warden? 

I think in all of DA2 this was my most favorite codex to read and what does this really mean.  It's a great mystery and one I hope they expand on.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

What kind of Glyph is this, if it looks like any Glyph?



A Glyph usually has a circle around it, at least in Dragon Age.

If you look at the symbol of Kirkwall the entire city is one whole glyph at least this is what I thought when reading the codex.  Hawke's family crest could also be a glyph.

If you also look at the city map all of the important points on the city resemble stairs leading up or down  if you follow the pattern.  Just something that I noticed and they all end/begin with the Black Emporium.  Coincidence most likely.  

Take your finger and trace the map from the top of where the Vicount Keep is and trace it down.  It's also could resemble a snake's body or a serpents body.  Serpent as in Old God?  What would a dragon lying down under the ground look like...it would make an interesting imprint in the ground or if someone was indicating a map of the outline of where a Old God might be imprisoned.  This is what I thought when a glyph was mention and symbols in the codex entry.   If an Old God is buried under Kirkwall it would make sense for Trevinter to send powerful mages to try and release one of their Old God's out of prison. 

It's also interesting to note that Urthmiel might have risen at Ostagar or the darkspawn found him/her under the ruins of Ostagar, and this is why tunnels were under the tower of Ishal.   Where codex entries also indicated that the Imperium also conducted some type of experiments.  The Architect found the Arch demon and raised it accidently or so the mother said.   It's also interesting to note that two Arch demons might be close together in Ferelden and the Free Marches.  It has always appeared to me from the map of Ferelden and the sea that there is a tunnel or ruin under the ocean between the two countries.  Just something that I've speculated about.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 08 juillet 2011 - 04:06 .

[Macropodmum]

noneofyourbussines77 wrote...

I found an interesting conection. The idol from the primeval thaig made bertrand hear a song. In Awakening the Mother and the Architect both describe a song that compels them to find the arch demon. There must be a conection and that is to much of a coicedance to not think tevinter is involved

I also thought the two were connected when I heard Bertrand mention the song.

[Rifneno]

Macropodmum wrote...

noneofyourbussines77 wrote...

I found an interesting conection. The idol from the primeval thaig made bertrand hear a song. In Awakening the Mother and the Architect both describe a song that compels them to find the arch demon. There must be a conection and that is to much of a coicedance to not think tevinter is involved

I also thought the two were connected when I heard Bertrand mention the song.

Ditto. Definitely a connection. Some people dismissed it, saying "all lyrium sings," but I think that means that lyrium itself is mixed up in the whole mess. It's not like we really know where lyrium comes from or what it really is. I think the Chantry says something about it being Fade water, but that explanation leaves a lot to be desired.

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

noneofyourbussines77 wrote...

I found an interesting conection. The idol from the primeval thaig made bertrand hear a song. In Awakening the Mother and the Architect both describe a song that compels them to find the arch demon. There must be a conection and that is to much of a coicedance to not think tevinter is involved

I also thought the two were connected when I heard Bertrand mention the song.

Ditto. Definitely a connection. Some people dismissed it, saying "all lyrium sings," but I think that means that lyrium itself is mixed up in the whole mess. It's not like we really know where lyrium comes from or what it really is. I think the Chantry says something about it being Fade water, but that explanation leaves a lot to be desired.

Yes come to think of it Justice mentioned it singing as well, and the Mother was upset due to the architect taking the song from her...it would be interesting if you could ask them all to tell you what the song was.  I wonder then if it was the architect in the trailer for the new dlc and whether the lyrium is connected somehow

Edit: Lol if it was in the water then that explains all the nutters

Modifié par Macropodmum, 08 juillet 2011 - 07:22 .

[Rifneno]

Macropodmum wrote...

Yes come to think of it Justice mentioned it singing as well, and the Mother was upset due to the architect taking the song from her...it would be interesting if you could ask them all to tell you what the song was.  I wonder then if it was the architect in the trailer for the new dlc and whether the lyrium is connected somehow

Edit: Lol if it was in the water then that explains all the nutters

Pretty sure he says or at least strongly implies that the song is the call of the old gods, seeking "freedom."

[Gillborn]

What if the ''Forgotten Ones" desired freedom?What if they wanted the magisters to thin the veil so they could somehow make the two worlds interact with each other(Material world-Fade).And thus teaching them blood magic.In one of the codexes it is being stated that to enter the Black City its required a lot of amount of blood and some portion of lyrium.That explains the missing slaves.After all the spirits-demons of the fade always envyed the secondborn and they have always tried to enter the world through mages.And with a full scale war between mages-templars think about how much the veil will thin.Also the talking statue in the cirlce of Ferelden says "The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all...".It could be a reference to the Formless One,and only by interacting with the materialized world could attain a form and destroy/rule everything.
 
Funny edit:The talkative guy in Hanged Man says that everyone is going crazy and states that something must be in the water:P

Modifié par Gillborn, 08 juillet 2011 - 01:33 .

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Pretty sure he says or at least strongly implies that the song is the call of the old gods, seeking "freedom."

That makes perfect sense then

[Rifneno]

I'm of the belief that the prison breach comment was about Hawke, Varric & Bartrand's expedition. The prison is the primeval thaig and the prisoner is the lyrium idol.

Edit:  Me and my big mouth.  Was wrong.  The prison is apparently the focus of our upcoming DLC, Legacy.

Modifié par Rifneno, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:06 .

[Ghost1041]

@Rifneno. Bringing up a point you made about a comment on being imprisoned for 2 thousand years. I think that the architect's red headed step brother was the prisoner you just mentioned. It could be possible he and the architect were magisters who tried to enter the golden city or at least some other ritual. It could explain why they are unique darkspawn. They know magic look more like twisted humans, not just your rank and file hurlock fresh out of the broodmother. Tha'ts all I got atm.