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[LPPrince]

Theon was trying to gain the acceptance of his father and sister, both of whom treat him like a complete outsider now.

Its like you love your mom and dad, but then you're gone for 10 years and when you finally come back to them and expect a hugely warm "OH MY GOD, MY SON!" reaction, instead you get a, "Oh, its you. You look terrible."

Plus, Pappa Greyjoy's been grooming Asha for leadership since Theon's been away, and that eats him alive.

Let me put it to you this way, personally-

I'm an only child. I'm The Prince of my royal family, the head of it now(dad ascended me when I was 19).

I had no "competition" from older or younger siblings.

If I did have a younger sister(for example), and my being away from my dad for years caused him to say, "F him, she'll be head of the family", I'd of felt...something.

Likely not something good.

Theon's in that place.

[Gibb_Shepard]

LPPrince wrote...

Theon was trying to gain the acceptance of his father and sister, both of whom treat him like a complete outsider now.

Likely not something good.

Theon's in that place.

I know why he is supposedly doing it. The fact that he doing it is the problem. He seemed like such a noble lad, but then suddenly turns into a barbaric and arrogant POS. who would aim to combat the people who spared him and raised him like family? not Theon, i thought. Nothing throughout the entirety of the series so far had even hinted toward such an unstable mind. It felt completely OOC for him.

And what royal family are you a part of?

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 10 mai 2012 - 04:44 .

[LPPrince]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

And what royal family are you a part of?

EDIT- Heh, I'm apparently not supposed to be shouting this from the rooftops.

Well, multiples.

Modifié par LPPrince, 10 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[LPPrince]

So, in fun times-

Remember the Game of Thrones King of My Castle video?

I got my friend Matt(who runs fan based- Podcast Winterfell) to dance all the moves.

He looks ridiculous.

[twincast]

GodWood wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
Also, despite the large budget for each episode and high production values, there are a lot of financial constraints, large epic battles that are reduced to expository dialogue, or a scene showing the aftermath of a battle rather than the battle itself, etc.

I can tolerate the cutting of expensive scenes. TBH, I expected the series to look much cheaper.

The problem is the complete and total mischaracterisation of certain characters and the stupid changes that will inevitably create a butterfly effect of even more stupid changes.

This. All of this. Too tired for more.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
I know why he is supposedly doing it. The fact that he doing it is the problem. He seemed like such a noble lad, but then suddenly turns into a barbaric and arrogant POS. who would aim to combat the people who spared him and raised him like family? not Theon, i thought. Nothing throughout the entirety of the series so far had even hinted toward such an unstable mind. It felt completely OOC for him.

There are hints of it in Season One, when he talks about the Greyjoys to Bran, when the maester reprimands him for how he treats Osha, etc.  It's set up better in the books simply because Theon is a POV character in the books and you really get inside his head, but for what it's worth, I thought they did a decent job in the show.

[Brockololly]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Haven't read the books so don't spoil me, but did anyone else else feel Theons change of alliance and sudden barbarism was completely out of left field? Throughout the entirety of season one the guy was your average noble-like fella. I never saw this power hungry, hateful character up until he went to his fathers land.

It just seemed so poorly done. Is his character better developed in the books? I was as unbelieving as Rob when I saw him do all this ****. It's like a completely different character.

The books have the advantage of letting the reader inside the different characters' heads. Book Theon is treated decent enough by the Starks and is friends with Robb, but not really to the extent that he is on the show. And the people around Winterfell always remind him that he is NOT a fellow Northman but a hostage. That grates on him.

So when you get his POV in the books, you see how he thinks going back to Pyke will be his chance to be amongst his "own" people. And he basically has delusions of grandeur in thinking how everyone will love him when he comes home and how he'll maneuver his way to becoming King of Iron Islands. But then he gets there and his expected reality is completely different and people don't give a **** about him at Pyke either.

So here is a guy that was taken hostage as a child, raised decent enough by the Starks but never fully accepted and then once he goes home, he's again rejected as an outsider. But he is biologically a Greyjoy, So he's thinking if he proves himself to his father, he could actually get into a position of power. That would never happen if he remained with the Starks- even if Robb liked him, the other Northmen saw him as a traitorous Greyjoy, just like Balon, even though Theon had nothing to do with Balon's rebellion. Theon has a higher potential if he proves himself to his father, whereas he wasn't going to be anything but a hostage in sticking around the Starks.


So Theon attacking Winterfell is again sort of him feeding his delusions of grandeur. He wants to prove himself to his father and prove that he is better than Asha/Yara by not just raiding dinky fishing villages, but taking Winterfell itself. So while Asha/Yara takes Deepwood Motte with a ton of ships and men, Theon is able to take Winterfell with far less than that.


In the books, Theon is a lot less likeable too. Minor spoiler, but in the books, that first Night's Watch deserter who Ned chops the head off of, Theon then proceeds to kick the head around like a soccer ball. So yeah. I think the show makes him a good deal more sympathetic than he is in the books- he seems much more conflicted in the show whereas in the books his shift in alliance was even more matter of fact, I thought.

[Addai]

Agreed, I don't remember caring about Theon at all. TV Theon is more sympathetic and the actor does a great job with him. I don't mind them showing his internal conflicts more dramatically. It's very poignant. I was thinking the moment he stood there with Rodrik's blood on his face, "Reek is born."

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I'm glad Ramsay's finally in, but we're still missing a few Tullies, and the Reeds. I'm hoping they show up next season, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. And does anyone know whose playing Ramsay? I can't find anything on him.

[Brockololly]

Solostran85 wrote...

I'm glad Ramsay's finally in, but we're still missing a few Tullies, and the Reeds. I'm hoping they show up next season, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. And does anyone know whose playing Ramsay? I can't find anything on him.

I don't think they've cast him yet. Either that, or they're keeping it a secret. I think they might keep him sort of how they handled Jaqen last year when Arya saw the guys in the cage, Jaqen was hidden in a hood. They could do the same with Ramsay in a helmet, which is actually how he is formally introduced in the books as I recall...different circumstances though.


Trying to think of other new characters they'd need to cast for season 3, if thats the first half of A Storm of Swords:


Ramsay
Mance Rayder
Tormund Giantsbane
Val
Meera Reed (?)
Jojen Reed (?)
Blackfish
Edmure Tully
Hoster Tully
Beric Dondarrion (Unless they keep the actor that played him for all of 2 seconds in season 1)
Thoros of Myr
(Other members of the Brotherhood? Lemoncloak, Tom o' Sevenstreams)
More Freys? Roslin Frey? Black Walder?
The Tyrells: Olenna and Mace
Oberyn Martell- maybe delayed until season 4?
Elaria Sand- Delayed until season 4?
Edric Storm?
Grey Worm
Daario Naharis
Strong Belwas


Even if they condense a bit, I can't imagine cutting too many of those characters althought depending on how they split A Storm of Swords, I guess they could shift some around.

[Aeowyn]

I do hope they keep the actor who played him in season 1. I'm also still curious about who will take Bran beyond the Wall if they Jojen and Meera don't show up.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Brock
Yea I really like what they did with Theon. I sympathize with him quite a bit. Looking forward to see what will happen to him.

[KJandrew]

In a sort of twisted way I'm looking forwards to seeing how they handle "Reek, reek rhymes with weak."

[RedArmyShogun]

You know having watched some of the eps I missed on HBO and catching up finally.

I have to say I like Stannis, or how he is played on the show. It seems more like some no nonesense leader, something of a "Powerman" type, that someone like that while I would not be friends with them thats a banner I could fallow.

Whats funny about that is in the books, I just didn't really like him at all. I had some respect for him more so in the final book. But he came across in the book as a bit boorish, and frankly a dunderhead. He really just seemed like someone who just wanted the throne, because it was his brothers.

Seeing the way some characters are played in the show makes you rethink them in the books. I also enjoy how everyone looks down on Theon. It carries from the books almost perfectly. How he's more of a mockery or biting off more than he can chew.

I also I love the way they are doing Tyrion, its like in the books, while his sister hates him and his father looks down on him, funny enough the dwarth is a bigger man and more capeable than all of his family. I look foreward to seeing the coming battle. Its funny how his father laments over no worthy Hier or is concerned with his tyrant grandson, when because of shortsighted pride he denies his most worthy son.

If not for his peronality, that is one guy that could manipulate his way to the Iron Throne is he ever wanted. Saddly I doubt he'ld ever be respected and would spend more time smacking people than he did Joff.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Brock
Yea I really like what they did with Theon. I sympathize with him quite a bit. Looking forward to see what will happen to him.

Heh. Yeah, reading the books, I HATED Theon by the end of A Clash of Kings. Without spoiling anything...things change.

KJandrew wrote...

In a sort of twisted way I'm looking forwards to seeing how they handle "Reek, reek rhymes with weak."

Yup. Assuming the show gets that far and how they handle that, it could be amazing TV. That character arc is probably one of my favorites from the book. Thats one thing GRRM does well- taking characters that at one time do horrible, reprehensible things and then actually making you sympathize with them a little bit.

[Brockololly]

Was reading on another forum from somebody who has seen tonight's episode in advance and apparently some pretty crazy changes are made yet again to Dany's story. Like, very crazy. And some of Jaime's story is altered a bit too, but seems to keep the main gist of things from the book.

I guess I don't mind Dany's story changing that much with the nitty gritty stuff in Qarth because I didn't find it that interesting or particularly memorable in the books.

[RedArmyShogun]

I get that Brockololly. I hate when I see massive changes at times, others they are for the better. Normally if it bothers me I try and remember its "based on" the novels not a direct copy. Beats raging about it and going

HBO WHY YOU NOT COPY PAGE 275 WORD FOR WORD?! *rage face*

[Brockololly]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

I get that Brockololly. I hate when I see massive changes at times, others they are for the better. Normally if it bothers me I try and remember its "based on" the novels not a direct copy. Beats raging about it and going

HBO WHY YOU NOT COPY PAGE 275 WORD FOR WORD?! *rage face*

Yeah, with any adaptation the main thing I enjoy is being able to see certain characters, places or events take place on screen. So most of the time any disappointment is going to come about if some character, place or event is left out or changed to the point of being something or someone or someplace completely different.

Or maybe in a character driven show like GOT, when they change the characterization of certain characters too much. I don't think the characters or story needs too much changing, as GRRM has done a pretty good job with character motivations and making sure everything makes sense.

[TJPags]

Just watched tonight's episode. DIscussed with my wife, who has not yet read Clash (or any books beyond GoT).

Let's just say, she seems to be enjoying the show more than I am.

I'm having a hard time dealing with some of the more dramatic changes that appear to be happening. I'm concerned whether the show is going to get to the same points that the books did, whether characters are being forgotten/abandoned, whether plotlines have become irrelevant. And I can't seem to stop wondering that, especially when I see an episode like tonight's, which bears only a passing resemblance to the books.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I want to like Robb Stark, I really do, but he always seems clueless to me.

Jon Snow's continued failure, no surprise there.

And I still think Sir Jorah should be looking for a different job.

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...

Just watched tonight's episode. DIscussed with my wife, who has not yet read Clash (or any books beyond GoT).

Let's just say, she seems to be enjoying the show more than I am.

Yeah, I think that must be true.  At this point I don't feel very connected to the story so it's hard to have any reaction at all, except to think I'd probably like it if I didn't know what was supposed to be happening.

[chunkyman]

Jon Snow's plotline seems much improved compared to it's lackluster beginnings. Overall a very good episode.

I want something very bad to happen to Theon. Herpes would be sufficient.

Jaime's scenes were phenomonal. I loved how calmly he went about escaping.

Modifié par chunkyman, 14 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[AxisEvolve]

Ok... I need to vent a little about tonight's episode. Episode spoilers below.



---------------------

It was very fun to watch.. BUT.... What the hell are they doing exactly?



Jamie killing Alton? First of all, he's a morally grey character in the books. Now all of a sudden they're painting him as a pure villain. Great... Second, isn't Alton supposed to be Cleos Frey? Uhh.. that didn't happen to him in ASOIAF. I guess they figured he wasn't important enough. What a missed opportunity. I loved his banter with Jamie in the books.

What is going on in the Jon arc? I'm pretty sure this wasn't how things went down. I'm starting to doubt if the Halfhand scene (you know the one..) will even occur now.

As for the Bran/Hodor/Rickon/ect. arc..... at first I thought they changed it, but if my memory serves correct that part of the story was supposed to give many impressions that ended up being false. So maybe it's right, just my hindsight is a bit blurred.

Daenerys? I've given up wondering what they're doing with her. It would be faster to list the things they haven't changed. 


I feel like in an effort to not confuse the non ASOIAF readers, they have confused the hell out of the people who have read them.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 14 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Three things:

1) Finally figured out who Roose reminds me of - Vlad Putin. I half expect him to drop into a Russian accent and start uttering Bond one liners.

2) I think Tywin and Arya's scenes might be my favorite moments this season. Still, it does beg the question why Tywin still keeps her around when he can clearly tell there's more to her than she lets on.

3) The scene with Dany, Ducksauce, and the warlocks was quite good, even if it become obvious halfway through what was about to happen. Having not read Clash of Kings yet I can't say whether what they're doing with her story is better than it or not.

Oh, and Theon's trying too hard, it feels like. One on the one hand doing things like punching out the insubordinate seems right for an Iron islander, on the the other hand he's still suffering hugely from delusions of grandeur.

[Brockololly]

I'll post more after my customary second watching of the episode tomorrow. A couple quick thoughts though:

- When Tyrion is only in one scene, its a bad episode. Especially when A Clash of Kings is Tyrion's time to shine. Tyrion was only in one scene.

- They seem to be keeping the main sort of plot points but they're really slicing and dicing and rearranging how the characters get to the main, necessary plot points. In the last few episodes, I don't think its working that well. You end up with new events which alter the characterization of characters and yet they're still getting to the same plot points as the books without having gone through or experienced the same things which cause them to arrive at the necessary plot points of the books. Its just odd and in some cases makes certain characters seem unnecessarily stupid or foolish.

- I didn't care for how the episode was actually directed and shot. Just in terms of so many of the scenes feeling either way too brief or way too long. The whole thing didn't have much of a flow. I just really prefer episodes where they only focus on a couple characters and not try to cram in everyone.

- The ending was well done, although in the books didn't Theon mount Bran and Rickon's heads on the wall? Morbid detail I guess. But how they handled that...they kind of unnecessarily telegraphed things I thought.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
1) Finally  figured out who Roose reminds me of - Vlad Putin. I half expect him to  drop into a Russian accent and start uttering Bond one liners.

Which is great really, cause Roose (at least in the books) is supposed to have that kind of chilly, cold aura to him.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
3) The scene with Dany, Ducksauce, and the warlocks was quite good, even  if it become obvious halfway through what was about to happen. Having  not read Clash of Kings yet I can't say whether what they're doing with  her story is better than it or not.

That whole thing isn't even in the book- the whole dragon kidnapping and murder of the 13? Never happened. As of book 5, the 13 are still alive and well in Qarth. Thats not to say the book is better or worse, but the show is definitely different.

TheBlackBaron wrote...
Oh, and Theon's trying too  hard, it feels like. One on the one hand doing things like punching out  the insubordinate seems right for an Iron islander, on the the other  hand he's still suffering hugely from delusions of grandeur.

Thats Theon in a nutshell. Poor guy doesn't know who he is and ends up going to extremes to try and prove himself. 

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 mai 2012 - 05:30 .