11084 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

No Strong Belwas? No liver and onions?

I is sad.

[Cyberarmy]

chunkyman wrote...

RobRam10 wrote...

Something that I don't dig is why did that Kingsguard slashed Tyrion's face?

I didn't understand that at all. By the way it was presented, it seemed like he snapped or something and decided to randomly kill Tyrion. Hopefully they elaborate in the next episode.

A wild guess from me, maybe Cercei (or even Joffery) secretly ordered him to execute "İmp" in the heat of battle?
Or he just hates dwarves

[LPPrince]

Man, I love that Season 2 soundtrack.

[chunkyman]

Cyberarmy wrote...


A wild guess from me, maybe Cercei (or even Joffery) secretly ordered him to execute "İmp" in the heat of battle?
Or he just hates dwarves

Cersei trying to kill him makes sense. She already  hated him because he shipped her daughter off, and the fact he had Joffrey with his troops near the gates probably sent her over the edge.

[Baryonic-Member]

I hope they cast the guy who played Mark Anthony in Rome as Oberyn Martell.

[Seagloom]

The Rains of Castamere (Metal Version)

I preferred the WhiteNoise Lab rendition of the opening theme, but this was alright.

[RedArmyShogun]

Having reviewed most of this season finally and reading the book its based on right now...I have to say I'm not sure I'll keep watching it. Most of the changes have been little but they mount up more and more over time.

Its like you have a race from New York to LA. You both have the same car to start with. But then the manager of car number 2, he decideds to ditch the wheels, take the drive shaft turn it side ways, put a wooden prop on it, then takes the doors off and mounts them on the side, and flies to LA, while saying its the car still as it uses most of the same parts.

The Desitnation doesn't change, the ending shouldn't, but the way of getting there, while the frame is the same, the small changes make something else. And over all just all the skippping, parts being chaanged and such, I really don't feel I can keep watching it. Its not doing the books justice.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 01 juin 2012 - 02:50 .

[LPPrince]

Of course you feel its not doing the books justice- its not the books.

Nothing is ever gonna do the books justice. Movies, television series, whatever.

I can't convince y'all to keep giving the show a chance, which I shouldn't and won't. But it makes me a little sad to see some of y'all slowly giving up because the show's a little different.

I mean, the show's not named "A Song of Ice and Fire" is it? That's the way I look at it.

[Seagloom]

Let's be fair here. It was a little different in season one. Now it's a whole hell of a lot different and likely to venture further off the beaten path next season. Some characters such as Dany, Jon, and Jaime are so mischaracterized they may as well be different people. It's not always easy to overlook that. Especially if one is a fan of a drastically altered character.

[RedArmyShogun]

Its not a little different. All thats alike is names and a few events. Its something else fully.

The show while I don't expected it to be 100% in line, skipped like 3/4ths of the book. It mixed around various chapters and events, cut out some key plot points.

It would be like remaking Star Wars, and removing how they saved Liea and just jumping to the Death Star, which they some how blow up while luke gets his hand cut off by Vader on Endor.

Its a traviesty. Its not a bad show mind you, but just how it gobbles things up, mark my words it will be like Jurrasic Park. Folks will watch the show/movie first, then go to the books, moan and **** about how THATS NOT HOW IT REALLY HAPPEND THE TV SAYS SO!!! And then they'll be forced to do a "revised Edition" of the story, whats funny is in this case the whole story will fit in one or two books.

The changes and spins are getting so drastic its not even the same thing anymore, nowhere near it really. Its like Making a Blueberry muffin with vanilla icing, then turning it into a Rasberry muffin with choclate icing, and then going to the fans

"hey its stil lthe same good muffin! Now EAT IT!"

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 01 juin 2012 - 03:21 .

[LPPrince]

I imagine if the show were a perfect copy of the books, no one would mind.

Sure, I'd think it was cool as hell.

But I still recognize the characters, I still know who they are, I know what happens in the books, and if something's different about them...I'm okay with that.

Like in the books, Doreah dies in the Red Waste and Irri's fine, though in the show Irri dies in Qarth and Doreah is just missing.

That doesn't bother me. You can say thats minor, so lets go with something major- Jaime killing his own kin(Alton Lannister) doesn't bother me either.

Especially since in the books when Cleos Frey(Alton took his place in the show) dies, Jaime shows absolutely no mourning. And Cleos Frey is related to the Lannisters.

Maybe that's just me. I'm more open to the changes.

[Seagloom]

I could probably overlook the Jaime thing even though I think it makes his later development harder to believe. But turning Dany from a woman with agency to a reactionary idiot being led along by the nose every step, not so much. It's like she regressed to her early AGoT incarnation prior to marrying Khal Drogo. Jon is also horridly incompetent and has gone from a heroic character to a bumbling fool.

When a character goes through such a metamorphosis that qualities I liked in them are no longer present, I don't see how it couldn't bother me.

[LPPrince]

Well, I felt Dany didn't really get going until after Qarth, so lets see where they take that...next year.

As for Jon, well lets be honest. Around Ygritte he thinks with his number.

[Chewin]

Obviously you can't fill everything the book offers in a 10 episode season. I can understand that it can be an annoyance when the show leaves out some key / important moments, or simply rebuffs them, but you have to think logically, since a lot comes down to budget and lack of time. I've seen several interviews, where they have wanted to include specific scenes or expanding them (the Blackwater was intended to be sidelined at first, but thet managed to get enough money to make the whole battle), but haven't been able to. Of course you can manage to stay close to be books as possible, getting the right 'corners' and everything between like season 1 offered I believe, but sometimes you don't.

I haven't read the books yet so I can't compare them, but as for the show, I've been enjoying it so far tremendously, and if the show fails to make the books justice, I hope at least it doesn't fail as a show.

Modifié par Chewin3, 01 juin 2012 - 03:28 .

[Seagloom]

@LPPirnce

Not the point. In the books she makes choices to advance her goals. She actively decides to visit the House of the Undying. Whereas on GoT, she is manipulated by Xaro, loses her dragons, and is essentially forced into their lair. It's the difference between the strong, decisive Dany we see grow from the events in AGoT/season one and an entitled whiner that can't even keep something as important to her cause as three dragons safe. Season two Dany is basically Viserys 2.0.

Even if she returns to how she was earlier in the story, it will smack of an illogical and sudden shift in personality. It also won't erase what happened.

I'm not going to get started on Jon since I'd have to go too far back just to explain my view of him this season. I'll just leave it at being tired of seeing him portrayed as as indecisive loser who screws everything up when that really wasn't the case at all in ACoK. Knowing where his story goes, it's hard to draw a straight line from that character to his future self.

Modifié par Seagloom, 01 juin 2012 - 03:48 .

[Fiery Knight]

Chewin3 wrote...
I haven't read the books yet so I can't compare them, but as for the show, I've been enjoying it so far tremendously, and if the show fails to make the books justice, I hope at least it doesn't fail as a show.

This I can relate to. Too often my favourite shows have turned into messed up seasons only continuing basically 'cause fans wants more. Hopefully that won't happent to Game of Thrones.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I agree that Danny is not impressive so far and does not seem to fall in line with what she was becoming at the end of season 1. Now of course I appreciate the fact that they don't make it easy for her, especially since her dragons at this age are mostly useless. Perhaps even the death of Drogo and her son affected her and weakened her temporarily. But the whining brat of season 2 does not seem like the same Danny to me. Her "my dreams come true" rant creeped me out actually. It would be interesting if she had a messiah complex, but as of yet it's too hammered, without tact and subtlety.

I said it before and I will say it again, I don't care what happens in the books (for now). I want to enjoy GoT as a show. And as of now, Danny is not well done imo, irrespective of how she is in the books.

[LPPrince]

I think the reason I'm okay with these changes is even though I've read the books, I'm watching the show as if I haven't read them.

[Brockololly]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Having reviewed most of this season finally and reading the book its based on right now...I have to say I'm not sure I'll keep watching it. Most of the changes have been little but they mount up more and more over time.

One of the bigger disappointments I have with season 2 is how they have neutered Arya, Jon and Dany's storylines while not doing much with Robb. Arya's storyline changes I can understand from the perspective of budget, but Dany and especially Jon's storyline changes don't work. 

All that said, though, they basically have 20 episodes to do A Storm of Swords. That gives me hope they won't have to rush through as much material and can be more faithful to the books.

Seagloom wrote...
Not the point. In the  books she makes choices to advance her goals. She actively decides to  visit the House of the Undying. Whereas on GoT, she is manipulated by  Xaro, loses her dragons, and is essentially forced into their lair. It's the difference between the strong, decisive Dany we see grow from the  events in AGoT/season one and an entitled whiner that can't even keep  something as important to her cause as three dragons safe. Season two  Dany is basically Viserys 2.0.

Even if she returns to how she was earlier in the story, it will smack of an illogical and sudden shift in personality. It also won't erase what happened.

The lack of agency by characters on the show is a problem in general. Very rarely do characters seem to come up with some idea on their own, but rather we see somebody planting the seed of an idea in their head and then later, the character acting on that (like Littlefinger and Cat discussing freeing Jaime, or Yoren's list with Arya). The show characters seem far more reactionary to events than they are in the books.

Seagloom wrote...
I'm not going to get started on Jon since I'd have to go too far back just to explain my view of him this season. I'll just leave it at being tired of seeing  him portrayed as as indecisive loser who screws everything up when that  really wasn't the case at all in ACoK. Knowing where his story goes,  it's hard to draw a straight line from that character to his future  self.

Jon's story in the show is by far and away the most confusing to me, since it doesn't even seem like it would be a budget issue or anything for it to more closely follow the books. And it would have been far more exciting and suspenseful if it followed the books. I like Ygritte, but she's not going anywhere. In the books, he is decisive in sparing Ygritte and has to explain that to Qhorin. The show just shows him as a wishy washy bumbling dolt. And Halfhand ends up looking not like the super elite special forces Ranger of legend like in the books, but just another redshirt.

I think it really messes with the plausibility of Jon's future developments, like you said.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I agree that Danny is not  impressive so far and does not seem to fall in line with what she was  becoming at the end of season 1. Now of course I appreciate the fact  that they don't make it easy for her, especially since her dragons at  this age are mostly useless. Perhaps even the death of Drogo and her son affected her and weakened her temporarily. But the whining brat of  season 2 does not seem like the same Danny to me. Her "my dreams come  true" rant creeped me out actually. It would be interesting if she had a messiah complex, but as of yet it's too hammered, without tact and  subtlety.

I said it before and I will say it again, I don't care  what happens in the books (for now). I want to enjoy GoT as a show. And  as of now, Danny is not well done imo, irrespective of how she is in the books.

I think there have been several problems with Dany's story this season.

1.) She doesn't have as interesting a supporting cast as she did last year. Pyat Pree, Xaro and the Qarth people just are not as interesting as Viserys or Drogo. This should get better in the future though...

2.) The writing for her has been pretty bad. Pretty much every scene in Qarth with Dany goes something like this:

"I AM MOTHER OF DRAGONS! WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS!?"
"FIYAAA AND BLUUUUD!"
"I AM RICHEST MAN IN QARTH!"
"COME TO HOUSE OF UNDYING!"
"KELLY-C!!! I WUV YOU!"

3.) Part of the problem is just how they've tried to spice up the book Qarth plot. In the books, Dany's stay in Qarth is really just heavy on world building and backstory, stuff the show doesn't do well. A lot is Dany walking around the city, seeing why its supposedly the greatest city in the world with interesting backstory and descriptions of the city itself and the governmental structure, while trying to get ships. In the show, we've barely gotten any scenes of the city at large (budget issues, fair enough) or even much backstory (like Jorah's story about his wife) and instead they try to spice it up with the dragon kidnapping. Which comes across as drama for the sake of drama, IMO. Fact is, Dany doesn't do much in Clash of Kings and her biggest moment is the House of the Undying, which is really a lot of prophecy and backstory again. I wish the show didn't try to force her into as many episodes when she just doesn't have much to do and doesn't need to be present in every episode.

Modifié par Brockololly, 01 juin 2012 - 05:15 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Her "my dreams come true" rant creeped me out actually. It would be interesting if she had a messiah complex, but as of yet it's too hammered, without tact and subtlety.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I recall the opposite, that at this point Jorah is having to reassure her that she is not going to go mad like Aerys but that there were "good" Targaryens like Rhaegar and she is one of them.

Both book and TV series have the problem posed by the dragons being babies in GoT and needing to be fully grown war machines for the plot to progress.  As a result, Dany's story has long lags where she's not doing anything.  I don't recall being annoyed by her personality until ADWD, though.  The TV series is starting that off early. 

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't recall being annoyed by her personality until ADWD, though. The TV series is starting that off early.

Daario.....ugh. Though I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that considering that she took one of her handmaidens to bed in Storm of Swords.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 juin 2012 - 06:13 .

[twincast]

Seagloom wrote...

Let's be fair here. It was a little different in season one. Now it's a whole hell of a lot different and likely to venture further off the beaten path next season. Some characters such as Dany, Jon, and Jaime are so mischaracterized they may as well be different people. It's not always easy to overlook that. Especially if one is a fan of a drastically altered character.

This. Really all your posts, but especially this.

I'm already too jaded to really join the discussion, though.

[Sylvianus]

Actually, thanks to the show, I like much more Danaerys, at the very least much more interesting.

I don't really understand, what you found that much interesting with her in the book compared to the serie TV from the beginning ( with viserys ) until that point. ( quarth ) She seems actually the same. She was even kinda borring, and fortunately Mormont was there to give his point of view, to teach her, I was more interested by him at that time, while in the show, I was interested by both characters. It's after she has become interesting for me in the books, personally.
On the TV, several times, I found her badass, ( I love the actress personally  ) for example when her brother knocks her, she does the same, and suddenly screaming to him who she is, like a true dragon. I thought first :"  wow,  she is really a Targaryen, and second, " must re-read that passage in the book "

The same for Robb. Thanks to the show, I like him much more, while in the book, I was meh, not really interesting. Catelyn pissed me off several times in the books.  But now, I like her even if I didn't change my mind..
Jaime Lannister is simply fabulous in the show. :wub:Bronn, Varys,Tywin, Tyrion, Arya, Ned Stark, Balon Greyjoy, Peter, Joffrey, Robert Baratheon, the same. The show and actors did a very good job. The Khal Drogo, wasn't at all interesting in the books, the show made me interested on this character actually.

Disappointed with Theon. Too much emotion in the show, the guy looks like a man in perpetual conflict with himself, who wants to prove to the world that he is not nothing, while in the book, Theon seemed to care about nothing, always smiling for nothing, we do not know why, what I liked. With this kind of person, we never know what he is thinking about. And that's why, this bastard surprised me, when he decided to attack Winterfell.

While with the theon in the show, a man like that, with such pride visible, you know immediately that he will betray you, my brother and my sister who didn't read the book immediately guessed he would betray the stark a long time before he does it...
Disappointed a bit with lord Frey, he was awesome in the book.

edit : Otherwise, I love the serie TV as well. Can't wait for the the last episode and the new season.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[Volus Warlord]

Still haven't watched any episodes but finished the third book.

[LPPrince]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Still haven't watched any episodes but finished the third book.

On to A Feast for Crows now?