11084 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Knight]

Ugh, I just can't wait 1 whole year 'til season 3... D:

[LPPrince]

slimgrin wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Can someone lend me $31,800?

"The Iron Throne" Replicas For Sale

They're crap, I saw it.  A cheap plastic toy, a lawn ornament. I wouldn't pay $50 for it.

Page says it isn't plastic, but eh.

I'd want it anyway.

[twincast]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I wonder how exactly they will do Book 4 and 5 in the show. Will they split the PoVs like George did or will they show them all at once?

No way will they bench half their main cast a year for two or more years. If anything that is what their handling of season 2 proved. Besides, most TV viewers wouldn't get that events happen concurrently when they don't show it that way.

[Chewin]

Hawke_12 wrote...

Ugh, I just can't wait 1 whole year 'til season 3... D:

Then maybe you should...

Modifié par Chewin3, 08 juin 2012 - 04:46 .

[Fiery Knight]

LOL Chew, I already have.

[Addai]

An interesting interview with writer Bryan Cogman.  He's speaking primarily to book readers who are disappointed with the changes.  Sounds a little frustrated, though ultimately he makes the appeal to be patient because they aren't necessarily changing things like Arya's arc, just stretching it out more.

Ok, whatever.  His explanations about Ros and Talisa also don't make me feel any better.  Sorry, Bryan, but you made lame parts of the books even lamer (in Robb's case) and inserted Ros' curvaceous parts in our faces one too many times.

[billy the squid]

Addai67 wrote...

An interesting interview with writer Bryan Cogman.  He's speaking primarily to book readers who are disappointed with the changes.  Sounds a little frustrated, though ultimately he makes the appeal to be patient because they aren't necessarily changing things like Arya's arc, just stretching it out more.

Ok, whatever.  His explanations about Ros and Talisa also don't make me feel any better.  Sorry, Bryan, but you made lame parts of the books even lamer (in Robb's case) and inserted Ros' curvaceous parts in our faces one too many times.

Being in a position of only just starting to read the books, I can see his point about not loading the series with the huge amount of information and backstory that the books have. But, I find myself reading the book and the wikis at times for that information. I like the Tv show, but at times it feels like there's something missing. The Targerrians for instance, so little information is given on them and that I feel I would enjoy the show much more if these kind of details were given.

To an extent at times it feels like I'm dropped in the middle of a scene and I have to piece together the information as the episode progresses, or rewatch several episodes back to back for information to become available which makes previous events more relevant or take on a new light. I enjoy it, but it's a bit frustrating at times.

[Costin_Razvan]

"The Others take them!" That's how I feel about the show producers right now.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juin 2012 - 07:56 .

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

An interesting interview with writer Bryan Cogman.  He's speaking primarily to book readers who are disappointed with the changes.  Sounds a little frustrated, though ultimately he makes the appeal to be patient because they aren't necessarily changing things like Arya's arc, just stretching it out more.

Ok, whatever.  His explanations about Ros and Talisa also don't make me feel any better.  Sorry, Bryan, but you made lame parts of the books even lamer (in Robb's case) and inserted Ros' curvaceous parts in our faces one too many times.

I think part of the problem, is as Cogman says, they're still hitting the big milestones in terms of overall plot advancement by the end of season 2/ACoK. But the character development is lagging behind (Arya) or veering off in different directions (Robb). Such that, they're presumably now going to have to make up new scenes in the future to make the character development make sense, which ends up in more changes and so on and so on.

I mean, I imagine the changes to Arya's story were partially budget related in not casting the Bloody Mummers and wanting to give Tywin more screen time. I liked the Tywin/Arya scenes but what purpose did they really serve? Is Arya a different person leaving Harrenhal than she was at the beginning? Book Arya certainly is, whereas TV Arya seems mostly unchanged- she has a magic coin from Jaqen, but she's not anywhere near as empowered as she was she was in the books. To get her to that point they'll have to change up even more future content to accomodate events that should have happened in Harrenhal.

Or Robb- Cogman outlines it well how it works in the book, but changing Robb's motivation for marriage from honor to selfish love, makes him out to be kind of more an unlikeable, selfish character I think. In the book, he seems more truly like the child of Ned- marrying Jeyne out of a sense of honor really. Whereas TV Robb goes super selfish and betrays his own word  and honor to Frey for personal love. And this changes how we view Cat too, since she is sitting around letting Robb do this.


So while they might not be changing the meat of something like Arya's arc- they are. She isn't going to go back to Harrenhal to do Weasel Soup or kill a guard with the coin Jaqen gave her, orchestrating their escape on her own or serve as Roose Bolton's cupbearer. Same with Jon- he's not going to get anymore screentime learning about Mance Rayder or leadership from Qhorin. That time is past. So they might still get to the same points in terms of character development a bit later, but the events and characters that cause that character development are being excised or changed and the changes seem to be snowballing pretty quick as a result.

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 juin 2012 - 09:25 .

[Addai]

Tyrion gives a commencement speech

[chunkyman]

Wow, I just realized that Melissandre told Mathos of his death at the end of episode 12.

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

Tyrion gives a commencement speech

If that isn't cool I don't know what the hell is.

[Addai]

chunkyman wrote...

Wow, I just realized that Melissandre told Mathos of his death at the end of episode 12.

Yep. 

[LTD]

TV show vs Books. Two different art forms and all that. If you consider Song of Ice and Fire about as holy as The Books of most religions and feel it FALSE-by-default -  capital sin when a character is removed, added or her fate altered, I truly don't get it why you would even watch a TV series based on your favorite books. How could it possibly have anything but disappointment and drustration in store? Nobody will ever transport a fantasy saga to screen in some 1:1 fashion.

.....I've personally really enjoyed - most- of the scenes that come from pens of HBO rather than GRRM.It is possible I say this because I always forget the BAD scenes though. Well, I have a problem with ******. There isn't quite enough ******. But other than that it's all good enough!

...Was't ment as a reply or remark to anyone in particular.

Modifié par LTD, 09 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[Brockololly]

Interesting read on Westeros.org from a Serbian TV critic on the differences between the books and show. Generally a negative take but it brings up some interesting points.

Most interesting is the fact that the show goes out of its way to highlight that Theon has all the crows killed to not let news spread that Bran and Rickon are "dead." Whereas that news spreading in the books is the catalyst for so many huge later events.

[Costin_Razvan]

Robb's marriage for one thing. Thanks for the link Brock, good read.

I do disagree with the writter about Catelyn and Robb not being stupid in the books, they were very much so. At least in the show Catelyn freed Jaime partly because he was about to be killed that night whereas in the books she just freed him.

As for Robb....well I don't know which is more of an idiot, show Robb who feel in love with her and decided to marry her knowing full well what the consequences were, and not even having her in the show as being from Westeros or book Robb who had sex with a woman treating his wounds as he found out Bran and Rickon had died....and marrying her. The woman being of a very old and noble blood line.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 09 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[Fiery Knight]

Very nice read, though I still think a few things comes little as nitpicky, especially on the crows, fast moving swords scenes, the 2 children bodies, and on Arya. But everything else I agreed with.

Well I hope the producers can learn a bit from their 'mistakes', mostly b/c I really hope this show won't turn into a disaster.

[Volus Warlord]

slimgrin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Tyrion gives a commencement speech

If that isn't cool I don't know what the hell is.

 Wow. I'd take him over some.... 

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...

Interesting read on Westeros.org from a Serbian TV critic on the differences between the books and show. Generally a negative take but it brings up some interesting points.

Most interesting is the fact that the show goes out of its way to highlight that Theon has all the crows killed to not let news spread that Bran and Rickon are "dead." Whereas that news spreading in the books is the catalyst for so many huge later events.

Wow, I don't agree with every point, but it's still a very good fisking.

This is exactly what I was afraid of and exactly mirrors my experience of the LOTR films.  The first stuck pretty closely to the book, in order to pull in old fans, but by the 2nd they were getting cocky and arty, changing a lot of things that didn't need to be changed, and I was doubled over in my seat in pain.  I was afraid that with the success of the first season the show writers would get cocky about their own ability and more confident about going off the reservation of Martin's material.

I wonder if Bryan Cogman sounds so frustrated because he's trying to be apologist for something he doesn't really believe.  Up to his episode and the one right after it, I was still buying it all, despite missteps even from last season.  But the season really devolved from there.  I can say I'll still watch the show and am still interested, but I've lost most of my enthusiasm, because for one thing my favorite characters aren't recognizable.

You do have to really give the actors credit.  They make watching even badly written scenes fun.  I don't know how much more they can carry.

[TJPags]

Brockololly wrote...

Interesting read on Westeros.org from a Serbian TV critic on the differences between the books and show. Generally a negative take but it brings up some interesting points.

Most interesting is the fact that the show goes out of its way to highlight that Theon has all the crows killed to not let news spread that Bran and Rickon are "dead." Whereas that news spreading in the books is the catalyst for so many huge later events.

Wow.  This man pretty much said everything that needs to be said - most of the changes made have dramatically taken away from the story Martin told.  And he also explains that there is no good reason for them - see the section explaining how "the budget" would not have been affected by casting Reek instead of Dagmer.

Label me a purist if you will, but this show is starting to butcher the characters and story I enjoy so much.  It may be a good show - my wife, who has only read book 1, quite enjoys it - but it's lost its appeal for me.

And that is very disappointing. 

[RedArmyShogun]

Ugh, dude has good points. Well I'll bow out of here minus reading tidbits, but I personally won't be watching the show any longer.

[Seagloom]

He spends a tad too long complaining about speeding up footage in fights. I also disagree with his assessments of certain characters, scene, and dialogue. I enjoy the books, but they are not quite as exalted as he paints them.

A shame about the production crew, though. If the filming process is really as chaotic as he writes, it is no wonder GoT is such a mess. I mean, Drogo ripping out that soon-to-be Khal's tongue because Momoa thought it would be cool, and gave no thought to the consequences? Bleh.

I suppose it doesn't matter. I quit watching six episodes in. Time is too precious a commodity to waste on mediocrity.

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
I suppose it doesn't matter. I quit watching six episodes in. Time is too precious a commodity to waste on mediocrity.

I'd at least watch the Blackwater episode- probably since it was written by GRRM but it had some nice moments  besides the battle.

But I recall that interview with Neil Marshall, who made similar last minute changes like Drogo ripping out the one guy's tongue, such as having Stannis lead his men into battle and then use the battering ram on the gates. I think both of those are good changes, mind you, but it seems they're more concerned with shoving nudity in every episode than adhering to the books, which are damn good material in the first place.

[Costin_Razvan]

I think Stannis leading his men in battle personally is a bad change. I always find it ridiculous that when such a thing happens in TV shows or movies no one actually targets the person leading the charge.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 10 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[twincast]

I delayed reading it until yesterday because frankly thinking about the series myself has been depressing enough; I kind of dreaded having it all spread out in front of me.

But yeah, it's a good read and aside from oddly enough almost never spelling ASOIAF correctly fairly well written as well. I didn't notice the sped up footage and think he's overthinking Sandor/Sansa, but other than that I did notice everything and agree with everything he wrote. That said, it stood out to me that the Stormlands/Reach side of things was barely even mentioned by him.