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[billy the squid]

LTD wrote...

HoonDing wrote...

Kinda lost interest in this, with Spartacus and Vikings.

You are actually comparing Spartacus to Game o Thrones:o
It'd be marginally smaller sin to announce you lost interest to Spartacus because of Internet porn.

Lololol. Vikings has proved interesting, and it's something I'll continue watching. Being based on the actual historical figure of the great Viking who invaded the Kingdom of Northumbria in about 8 AD.

But, yeah. Spartacus vs Game of Thrones, it's not even close to a contest, they're just worlds apart in terms of quality, charcters and writing.

[Costin_Razvan]

But, yeah. Spartacus vs Game of Thrones, it's not even close to a contest, they're just worlds apart in terms of quality, charcters and writing.

Spartacus wins.

[Brockololly]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But, yeah. Spartacus vs Game of Thrones, it's not even close to a contest, they're just worlds apart in terms of quality, charcters and writing.

Spartacus wins.

Is Spartacus that good? Its one of those shows I've been meaning to watch and I think all I know about it is the one lead actor who died of cancer a year or 2 ago. The only time I've seen trailers and bits of it, I always got the impression it looked a bit like a 300 meets Rome knock off with some dodgy special effects.

I'll have to give it a shot sometime.

Modifié par Brockololly, 19 mars 2013 - 02:13 .

[LPPrince]

I'll stick to GoT. Way too invested in the books and show to want to go somewhere else other than Westeros.

But I did hear good things of Vikings from quite a few.

[Costin_Razvan]

Brockololly wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But, yeah. Spartacus vs Game of Thrones, it's not even close to a contest, they're just worlds apart in terms of quality, charcters and writing.

Spartacus wins.

Is Spartacus that good? Its one of those shows I've been meaning to watch and I think all I know about it is the one lead actor who died of cancer a year or 2 ago. The only time I've seen trailers and bits of it, I always got the impression it looked a bit like a 300 meets Rome knock off with some dodgy special effects.

I'll have to give it a shot sometime.

There's a lot of 300 style silliness and the trailers do focus on that quite a lot, but the actual show is quite a lot deeper then that, it has great characters, characterization, manipulation, deception and most importantly.....


....and this is something that Game of Thrones lacks UTERLY..

...****ING SUBTETLY.

It's ridiculous to think that a show where you have supernatural gladiators with ripling man-bobs and ridiculous fights can have subltetly whereas the more down to earth game of thrones lacks it utterly.

Are there things that really ****** me off? Yes absolutely, but overall I enjoy it more then game of thrones.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 19 mars 2013 - 03:03 .

[Kronner]

I like both the Spartacus (except Season 02 which just plain sucked - no, I am not talking about the prequel here) and Game of Thrones.

But Game of Thrones is just on another level. Way more complex and gritty.

Spartacus is a turn-your-brain-off-and-enjoy-the-visuals kinda show, but it does have a few nice plot twists, solid intrigues and good actors.

HBO's Rome easily beats Spartacus as well.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 mars 2013 - 03:15 .

[King KvT I]

LPPrince wrote...

I'll stick to GoT. Way too invested in the books and show to want to go somewhere else other than Westeros.

But I did hear good things of Vikings from quite a few.

Yep, exact same here. Although, I've not actually heard of Vikings outside of this thread. What channel is it on?

But the Westerosi life is the life for me, ho ho ho and a bottle of... Dornish red?

[LPPrince]

I'll stick to ale.

[billy the squid]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But, yeah. Spartacus vs Game of Thrones, it's not even close to a contest, they're just worlds apart in terms of quality, charcters and writing.

Spartacus wins.

Is Spartacus that good? Its one of those shows I've been meaning to watch and I think all I know about it is the one lead actor who died of cancer a year or 2 ago. The only time I've seen trailers and bits of it, I always got the impression it looked a bit like a 300 meets Rome knock off with some dodgy special effects.

I'll have to give it a shot sometime.

There's a lot of 300 style silliness and the trailers do focus on that quite a lot, but the actual show is quite a lot deeper then that, it has great characters, characterization, manipulation, deception and most importantly.....


....and this is something that Game of Thrones lacks UTERLY..

...****ING SUBTETLY.

It's ridiculous to think that a show where you have supernatural gladiators with ripling man-bobs and ridiculous fights can have subltetly whereas the more down to earth game of thrones lacks it utterly.

Are there things that really ****** me off? Yes absolutely, but overall I enjoy it more then game of thrones.

Hardly. I Enjoy Spartacus, but it is essentially an action romp with memorable charcters. Batiatus, being easily my favorite manipulator, other than Crassus. The other Gladiators while, reasonable charcters in season 1 went down hill somewhat in season 2. Crixus and Navia have completely taken leave of their senses. While the Legatus, Glaba. In season 1 is quintesential villan summed up perfectly by his position in Spartacus' first match, where he cries out "But he gave me grievance", despite the crowd being against him. 

I'd hardly think subtlety comes into it. The villans in Sparatcus are truly villains, there's no other way to view them, while Spartacus and his merry band of supermen in underwear are always more 2 dimensional in their dealings, either Spartacus' Holier than thou position or Crixus'  "rargh I kill you" ideology. Rarely do we see anything in between which isn't associated with Gannicus.

Game of Thrones, the antagonists are certainly not portrayed as palm rubbing villains, which they almost all seem to be in Spartacus, regardless of how good their characterisation is. And while I think Dani and Jon Snow's elements of GoT have been weaker in season 2, their actions in season 3 and 4 are likely to present a more interesting, role. for the actors.

I mean would you compare, the likes of Tywin Lannister, Tyrion, Stannis, Varys to any of the cast of Spartacus' bar Crassus and Batiatus? I think even Jamie's amoral impartial stance on the matters of the kingdom and relationship with Cersi is more interesting when contrasted with Ned Stark's idea of honour when they meet in the Throne room and his later conversations with Robert regarding the Mad King and his title of King slayer, than the scheming of Glaba through the whole of season 2.

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't much care for the gladiators themselves personally besides Gannicuss and to an extent Season 3 Spartacus, but that's the thing for me: I don't really think that in either Spartacus there is such a thing as antagonist or a protagonist. I know it's Spartacus's tale and that the producers are really pushing the notion that one side is bad the other good but honestly I don't much care.

I love Batiatus, Ashur, Lucretia, Crassus and Caesar ( though Caesar did ****** me off at the start he grew on me ) and what I really enjoy is what they struggle against to simply improves their lives and standing because that's what their goals are, even applies to Glaber who I don't really like much but I understand where he comes from. Spartacus made him look like a fool in the eyes of the senate.

Subtlety comes from the various power struggles going around and how they were portrayed, especially with Batiatus, Crassus and Ashur.

With regards to game of thrones, it's a dumbed down watered version of an excellent series of books, so I am not going to lie that I am VERY biased against because of this. I am not a purist but when you portray Tywin Lannister as an imbecile who can't realize Robb's deception of 2.000 men vs what happened in the book then yes I am pissed off.

There are a lot of things that ****** me off in Spartacus but there is nothing on the same scale idiocy that is called Joffrey Lannister in the show, there is no abandondemnt of all the military strategy that went in the war of the five kings, there is no dumbing down of excellent complex characters, there is no stupid Daeneryes who loses her head like a bloody fool.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 19 mars 2013 - 06:32 .

[billy the squid]

Batiatus and Crassus are easily the best manipulators in Spartacus. I do think it's quite clear that the show does push the idea of antagonist vs protagonist, particularly with Spartacus' outlook and the Romans own views on slaves. I agree that Crassus is less of a two dimensional "villain" that other characters in the series, many of his actions are to improve his own standing within the senate and assert his influence through bribery and favours, due to his association with Sulla.

But, that's the issue, you and I know the history of Crassus and how his wealth was acquired by less than legitimate means after the dictatorship of Sulla, but anyone else who simply watches the series? I doubt it, unless they've already read or take time to read the background of the setting.

Game of Thrones, when you consider the size of Martin's book series, has captured as much as can be expected. For instance the scene between Tywin and Jamie in season 1 doesn't exist, but it would be difficult to introduce Tywin in season 3 with no explanation of who he is and why he is such an ever present figure, seen with fear, respect and hate in equal measure, without his introduction earlier.

I've just read Tywin's scene when he calls the king's council and the presence he commands, seen through Tyrion's eyes is amazing. What we've seen so far is back ground and fleshing out Tywin, that we find out through the books only after Tywin's death. That just wouldn't work in the Tv series. So I can understand why they've changed things like the conversations with Arya at Harren Hall etc.

I would have liked there to be more details about the battle with Jamie outside Riverrun and Tywin engaging the infantry under Bolton, especially as there was no reason to say 2,000 men, they really could have left that and simply placed a conversation detailing the actual events of the battle, between Tyrion and Tywin after the battle, when Tyrion was knocked out. They may have done it for pacing, but I think it would have been better in there.

I think we'll see more regarding Tywin as a manipulator in season 3, I'm hoping that they can capture him better in season 3. Especially as it wasn't until season 2 that we got more time examining the motivations of Tywin.

I don't think however, that Spartacus prides itself on military strategy, considering it's largely removed, it's more focused on how will Spartacus and his band of merry men get out of it this time. "Tune in next time for the stunning conclusion" That's what I get from it. The strategy which is missed from the ASOIF with it's translation in the books, in comparison, is far more noticeable, especially as it's wrapped up in the characters and events.

[Corto81]

Comparing Spartacus to GoT is an insult to both HBO and Martin.

Spartacus is bad in every single way... Casting, acting, writing, it's all so very claustrophobic (small budget and the ludus setting was much better in season 1 than these silly scenes of quasi-mass fight which were all filmed in my neighbour's yard, apparently).
Yet, for 2 season it was so deliciously sexy and violent and played to base human instincts, you couldn't stop watching it.
(season 3, mind you, is just boring)

But comparing Spartacus to GoT is like comparing CSI;Miami to The Wire.
One is pulp and thrashy (and can be fun to watch), the other is a serious, deep, engaging, well-casted and well-acted TV drama.

[Costin_Razvan]

As if HBO deserves anything but getting spat upon for how they utterly wrecked the adaption when compared to the beauty of the books.

It's an insult to Martin to not view Game of Thrones as anything more then a trash series good only for some visualizations of some characters and locations from the books but that's it and it's the sole reason I will continue watching the show while awaiting Winds of Winters like salivating dog.

Billy: I will disagree with the assesment that Game of Thrones captured as much of Song of Ice and Fire as it could. Where is the wonderful subtetly? Gone, the masterful manipulation and complex politics? dumbed down, the military strategy: almost non-existant.

Would I say I found Season 1 of GoT passable and even enjoyable at points, yes I did especially with scenes that did not happen in the books and created for the show, but Season 2 was an abmysall mess of incosistency and **** even as just a show not counting the books it came from.

Regarding military strategy in Spartacus, there isn't much of it true, but I'd say I vastly prefer the cat and mouse game that Spartacus and Crassus are playing in War of the Damned versus the show war of the five kings.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 mars 2013 - 02:47 .

[LPPrince]

Well, GRRM seems to have absolutely no problems with the show so heeey

Anywho, he wrote Episode 7 of Season 3, so we'll all have to wait for that one.

[Volus Warlord]

Galvanization wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Anywho, he wrote Episode 7 of Season 3, so we'll all have to wait for that one.

Time lost which could be spent writing the books instead.

STAHP DOING INTERVIEWS AND COMIC CON UNTIL YOU ARE FINISHED MARTIN

He likes them better than writing the book. Lol.

He'll prolly never finish the series.

[Straw Nihilist]

I heard the red wedding is going to be in season 3... Damn, this is going to be one depressing season

[Costin_Razvan]

George R.R. Martin fought tooth and nail to even get the amount of oversight he has over the show right now, I am firmly of the belief that he definitely wanted more and he said it himself in an interview that he would have loved to have seen the Battle of Blackwater like he portrayed it in the books but he had to make due to show limitations.

So ultimately I strongly believe he saw this was the best he could probably ever get with a TV show and accepted it.

 I heard the red wedding is going to be in season 3... Damn, this is going to be one depressing season

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 20 mars 2013 - 04:34 .

[Paragon Gabriel]

Volus Warlord wrote...
He'll prolly never finish the series.

He'll struggle to press that last dot to finish the line in his deathbed.

[LPPrince]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

and he said it himself in an interview that he would have loved to have seen the Battle of Blackwater like he portrayed it in the books but he had to make due to show limitations.

To accurately portray the Battle of Blackwater from the books you'd need millions and millions of dollars.

For that episode, they needed more money. GRRM, David Benioff, and D.B. Weiss contacted HBO(or maybe it was just the two showrunners) and asked for more money.

HBO was like, "Oh, what do you need? Half a million more?"

David and Dan(and maybe GRRM)- "More like Two and a half million more."

Well, they didn't get THAT much. But HBO did give them two million dollars more to work on that episode, and we got what we got, which was freaking amazing. Yeah there was no chain, there were "rocks" instead of boiling oil, etc etc

But it was still amazing.

David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, and George R.R. Martin talking about Blackwater's development

[Sajuro]

In the end of the series, Danny has the choice between Destroying the Others but destroying all magic, her Dragons, and all Wargs with them, she could choose to Control the Others, dieing in the process but becoming their collective mind, or she could turn everyone in the world into Wight so the Others walking about wouldn't be a problem.

[LPPrince]

I will never forgive Bioware for that

[Costin_Razvan]

To accurately portray the Battle of Blackwater from the books you'd need millions and millions of dollars.

Or you'd need a not so bloated western movie industry which wastes so much money on wanting to show everything but not telling us a lot.

See this is where Three Kingdoms 2010 ( a Chinese only show fan translated in english ) wins hands down. With only 30 million dollars it managed to produce 95 episodes of top notch episodes in terms of political intrigue, complexity, war, strategy and so on. While it's CGI was sub-par to GoT it managed to surpass in every way story wise by TELLING us the military strategy involved, by focusing on such things as morale, logistics and troop movements through the DIALOGUE not cinematics.