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[Blooddrunk1004]

Stannis great general?
Yeah, we all saw how that went when he invaded King's Landing. I know he does good later on, especially after he stops listening to Lissandre.

But whoever gives credit to Tywin for why King's Landing managed to stop Stannis forces should be quiet.
That was all Tyrion who is not tactician, general or soldier. All Tywin did was taking all the credit just because he arrived before the battle ended.

I can't wait when Tyrion will finally give his pathetic father something he truly deserves!

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 04 juin 2013 - 08:07 .

[billy the squid]

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
I doubt it. He had to be stopped by Martin, or it would be a somewhat anti-climactic position in Westeros if Tywin Lannister retained control of the seven kingdoms. Between the wealth of Casterly Rock and Highgarden, bringing the Martells into an alliance aswell, he outnumbers and has outmaneuvered everyone else. 

For a man who ruled the seven kingdoms for 20 years, he's hardly one to be outmaneuvered politically or militarily for long.

I think Tywin himself would say you're wrong and point to the Targaryens as proof.  They had withstood greater rebellions than Robert's.

Not the issue of it not being a sure thing, that's a given. The point that things coming around. As a politician, Tywin Lannister has either eliminated everyone through warfare, or politically in Westeros. I don't think he's forgotten Dayneris, yet considering he's was fighting a confilct against every other major political faction in Westeros, he's probably somewhat occupied by the threats on his doorstep. 

It's unclear in the books whether he knows of the dragons, it's never stated. I know it's dismissed in the TV series, but Varys warns Tyrion of the threat. It's one of the issues I have with the adaptation, the contradictions which arise. It's rather annoying. 

So if Tywin is being misdirected by Varys, why would he warn Tyrion?

[Dr. Doctor]

Right now it seems like a contest between Varys and Baelish to see what happens to Westeros.

Varys is deliberately trying to keep the train wreck that Joffery and Cersei are causing going for as long as possible so that when Danny (or another Targaryen who we have yet to meet in the show) returns to take the throne. Baelish so far has managed to trigger the events that started A Game of Thrones, acquired control of Harrenhal, become Lord Protector of the Vale (as of Book 4), and has launched a plan to have his allies take back Winterfell in Sansa's name. So either the Targaryens will return to power or Petyr Baelish and his hirelings are going to take over.

Option C is that Jon Snow isn't dead and that he, not Stannis is actually the reincarnation Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised that Melisandre is seeking. Although I get the feeling that GRRM will just kill of Jon Snow and never talk about the prophecy again.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Fireblader70 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

What a great adaptation of the books! Horrific! Gory! Tragic!

With the unnecessary addition of the brutal stabbing of an unborn child, which wasn't even in the books at all. That's too much, I'm sorry. Has no relevance to the plot and is only there for the shock factor.

Meh. I found it quite fitting to the universe. Or didn't the Goldcloaks kill every bastard in KL?

Killing babies is okay, its the killing of an UNborn baby that has some people going, "naaah"

For me, it's just because it was only used as gratuitous violence (in the sense that it wasn't in the books, and they only introduced it for the shock factor).

It seemed like a normal shanking to me, the only difference being that she happened to be carrying a child.

[billy the squid]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Stannis great general?
Yeah, we all saw how that went when he invaded King's Landing. I know he does good later on, especially after he stops listening to Lissandre.

But whoever gives credit to Tywin for why King's Landing managed to stop Stannis forces should be quiet.
That was all Tyrion who is not tactician, general or soldier. All Tywin did was taking all the credit just because he arrived before the battle ended.

I can't wait when Tyrion will finally give his pathetic father something he truly deserves!

You've never read the books have you?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Stannis Baratheon, now theres someone I have mixed feelings with.

[Milan92]

 Starks you mad?

[Nerevar-as]

billy the squid wrote...

So if Tywin is being misdirected by Varys, why would he warn Tyrion?

Same reason he helped him later, I´d say. It takes no mastermind to guess Tyrion is very resentful of his father, and being his father´s son, that could be used. Varys was probably just casting his net and watching if he caught something.

4x10, karma is a *****.

[TheRealJayDee]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

[massive spoilers] 

We might want to try to keep the spoilers for non-readers out of this thread.

[billy the squid]

Nerevar-as wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

So if Tywin is being misdirected by Varys, why would he warn Tyrion?

Same reason he helped him later, I´d say. It takes no mastermind to guess Tyrion is very resentful of his father, and being his father´s son, that could be used. Varys was probably just casting his net and watching if he caught something.

4x10, karma is a *****.

Not really it's a continuity and contradiction issue, given the long list of changes in some very pivotal points between the books and the adaptation.

He helped Tyrion later, as removing Tywin Lannister, was something that was to Varys's adavntage. Perhaps something he could never do himself given Tywin's ascendant position after the War of Five Kings. If he wanted to help Tyrion he wouldn't have framed him for Kevan's murder. 

Varys never does anything without a reason. Telling Tyrion about the threat of dragons, runs the risk of Tyrion bringing it up in discussion with Tywin, who is being advised by Varys, that they are not a threat. Tywin and Tyrion may be many things, but they certainly aren't stupid, and they're more alike than Cersi, who would like to believe herself Tywin's heir, would wish. I doubt someone as careful and cunning as Varys would run the risk of exposing himself to either Tywin or Tyrion.

[RainyDayLover]

Addai67 wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

So... is anyone here still rooting for the Starks?

The wolves will come again.

Of course.  Don't let the preening of the Lannisters fool you.  You can accomplish a lot when you have zero human feeling, zero respect for the traditions that bind a people (it's probably not apparent to TV viewers, but the bread and salt at the beginning was supposed to be the end of any possibility of what ended up happening), no fear of gods or man, no regard even for your own offspring, nothing but blind greed for power.  The Starks fall because they continue to assume the snakes around them are actual human beings.

Indeed.

People's views are being skewed because the Machiavellian type characters are constantly being shown winning, telling people off, and gaining power. It's not an honest portrayal of reality, or even the full story of ASOIF.

I sit back and wonder as I watch the dark side of man's ego. People on the internet (yes, mostly basement dwellers on the Internet) say, "oh yes, this is intelligence, look how they get what they want, they must be smart because they are WINNING. Winning justifies everything."

Inversely, because the Starks appear to lose, people conclude that they are therefore unintelligient and that their whole way of life is foolish. The Starks have a moral code that has enabled them to rule effectively since the days of the first men. As the oldest house in Westeros, obviously they are doing something right.

In the end, the Machivelian characters will get what's coming to them, and I'll be able to sit back and watch their undoing. Which frankly, I can already do as of ADWD for all of the Lannisters.

[Nerevar-as]

Tywin is a complete idiot regarding Tyrion, Cersei is just an idiot whatever the circumstances. The show made Robb a greater one though, at least in the books he broke the accord with Frey out of a very strong sense of honor, which is the Stark´s fatal flaw.

[billy the squid]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Tywin is a complete idiot regarding Tyrion, Cersei is just an idiot whatever the circumstances. The show made Robb a greater one though, at least in the books he broke the accord with Frey out of a very strong sense of honor, which is the Stark´s fatal flaw.

Clearly he's not or he wouldn't have sent Tyrion to rule King's Landing in his place. He tolerates Tyrion at best, but despises him form killing his wife and thinks him a stain on the family name with his wh0ring and drunkeness.  There's a difference between hating someone and using them. He uses Tyrion, but it's clear he holds no love for him, and would see him dead just as easily if it's not to House Lannister's detriment. 

The description of Cersi as wildfire is fairly apt. She doesn't think, she just does things.

Yeah, the show's portrayal of the Robb Stark I think is sadly lacking in some areas.

[Addai]

billy the squid wrote...

So if Tywin is being misdirected by Varys, why would he warn Tyrion?

We're getting into spoiler territory, but I'll just say that Varys is a good judge of character and saw that Tyrion was not like his father.

[legion999]

So are people still crying about the Wedding?

[Degs29]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

[massive spoilers] 

We might want to try to keep the spoilers for non-readers out of this thread.

Good luck with that.  I think we already know a lot of people on here don't give a damn about other people hearing something they shouldn't.  I mean, the freaking title of this thread is HBO's Game of Thrones, not G.R.RM.'s a Song of Ice and Fire, and still they can't help themselves but to talk about spoilers, and they don't even have the decency to forewarn readers. 

:innocent:

[Fireblader70]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Fireblader70 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Killing babies is okay, its the killing of an UNborn baby that has some people going, "naaah"

For me, it's just because it was only used as gratuitous violence (in the sense that it wasn't in the books, and they only introduced it for the shock factor).

It seemed like a normal shanking to me, the only difference being that she happened to be carrying a child.

That's the point. They added in the child simply to create more shock when it gets stabbed multiple times, which was an unecessary change from the books and, in my opinion, counts as gratuitous violence.

If Martin had written Jeyne as becoming pregnant in the books, attached a significant relevance to this in the overall plot and then killed her along with the child as a way of showing how fatal Robb's mistake was, I'd be fine with that. But as it stands, that wasn't in the book, the show slapped on Talisa's pregnancy like an afterthought and they proceeded to slaughter her along with the child shortly afterwards.

More drama for some, pointless violence to me. The scene would have worked fine without that.

[billy the squid]

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

So if Tywin is being misdirected by Varys, why would he warn Tyrion?

We're getting into spoiler territory, but I'll just say that Varys is a good judge of character and saw that Tyrion was not like his father.

Well I know some of the parts from the later books, about Tyrion's moves after his escape. But do you think Vary's would have anticipated all of that? Certainly Tyrion's actions vs Tywin, Varys' later move against Kevan all makes sense. But, anticipating Tyrion's aid to a certain party later on? I'll have to read more I think. 

Also Vary's involvement in the other Targaryan party. I think he's involved at least, makes it interesting as to whom will retake the Iron Throne.

Modifié par billy the squid, 04 juin 2013 - 09:58 .

[LPPrince]

http://www.bigissue....ty-and-violence

[billy the squid]

LPPrince wrote...

http://www.bigissue....ty-and-violence

Which is unfortunate. As much as some characters in the show add to who I see when I read the books. The adaptation loses a lot of the politics and subtlety. There was nudity and violence in the books of that we wall know, but it's there for a reason. Some scenes from the TV, meh they just seem pointless at times.

[LPPrince]

Make sure no edibles are by your computer screen before clicking the play button on this page

[Gulaman]

LPPrince wrote...

Make sure no edibles are by your computer screen before clicking the play button on this page

Crows before hoes.