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[Cainhurst Crow]

White walkers will make an excellent point for why the targaryans and their fire breathing, able to light multiple white walkers with ease, dragons should be the one to lead them.

[Nerevar-as]

billy the squid wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

billy the squid wrote...


The North is in no position to retaliate, with a Wildling invasion, fighting the Iron Born and fighting between Bolton and Stark Loyalist Forces, and the Karstarks splitting off after Robb executes their Lord. On top of that Tywin has Sansa Stark so can lay claim to Winterfell after the dust settles and the Lannisters and Tyrells regroup as they have already won the fighting in the South.

There are no Bolton loyalists... just the Karstarks. All the others are pro-Starks. Guess who they´ll join.

Next season you´ll see who´s the best at the Game of Thrones. Under Tywin´s nose. Hell, even under Tyrion´s.

Bolton has his forces Largely intact. Most Stark forces have been either killed, seperated or ambushed in the Riverlands. The Starks as a military power are broken. And they still have to contend with a full scale Wildling invasion and the Iron born under Euron running amock in the North. 

I take it you haven´t read the books?

[Addai]

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

[billy the squid]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Seraph Cross wrote...

The only reason Tywin keeps the mountain is because lots O people fear him.The guy is freaking huge and a great enforcer. It was the mountain who killed baby and Elia. Not Tywin. I don't see why he should be blamed for that.

At the end of the day Tywin is just pragmatic. He's no sadist. He does treat Tyrion like **** though and he uses his children as pawns

Pragmatism taken too far usually ends badly for everybody involved. If there comes a time for the Lannister where they are in a weak position, they have nobody to turn to. You don´t help somebody you fear if the odds are they fall. That´s why loyalty is better. Even Rickon could raise the North under the wolf banner, just for being Eddard´s son.

Whao hahaha. No just no. Rickon is a boy. Lets disregard that ridiculous notion right now. Not even going onto the current military and political anarchy which exists in the North.

In the Starks weak position that didn't help them despite their friendship with Riverun and attempts to win over the Freys, they were betrayed, and mercilessly killed. The Karstaks turned on them and the Boltons siezed power in the North. 

Their sense of honour being utterly inflexible is partly to blame for their position in the first place. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I read the wiki and I know what's coming, and oh boy, will it be awesome to see if they pull it off in the show well.

I want to see the awesome battle of castle black and have the cavalry be a complete surprise to everyone, like have no foreshadowing of it, so when it happens in the show, people are like, "What the ****? Why is he here?" and than maybe explain it in the next episode.

I expect the battle will be next season anyway, since there is only 1 episode left and that's a lot to try and jam into an hour of tv.

[Nerevar-as]

simfamSP wrote...

I take it you haven´t read the books?

If he's mentioned Euron, then he has.

It doesn´t show. He´s really out of date with events up north.

[billy the squid]

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

[Nerevar-as]

billy the squid wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

Arya (ninja), Sansa (learning from the best player of the game), Bran  (swampthing), Rickon (probably nothing after the timeskip was selved), Jon (maybe) plus the surprise one. More or less things are even.

[KOM_95]

billy the squid wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

The Boltons were never Kings In the North, Bran the Builder was the first and Robb Stark was the last. The Boltons have rebelled 700 years ago but never ruled.

[billy the squid]

KOM_95 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

The Boltons were never Kings In the North, Bran the Builder was the first and Robb Stark was the last. The Boltons have rebelled 700 years ago but never ruled.

Thanks I couldn't remember exactly.

[billy the squid]

Nerevar-as wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

Arya (ninja), Sansa (learning from the best player of the game), Bran  (swampthing), Rickon (probably nothing after the timeskip was selved), Jon (maybe) plus the surprise one. More or less things are even.

And none of them have any authority, power or vassals to fight in their name. The War of Five Kings, started a free for all with various factions making a grab for power. Procaliming themselves as the Starks of Winterfell only works if anyone bothers to listen, and no one is going to listen without an army to back them up at the moment. 

[KOM_95]

Billy is right unless they can generate an army or pledge to Stannis they wont be reclaiming the north anytime soon. Too be honest I doubt we will see an independent North but I would hope so. Althoug I do think if Robb wasn't killed and he retook the North from the ironborn then he could have just sat up there for all winter and  said Im the King come and do something about, he wouldn't be challenged, no southern forces will ever take the North nor will ever.(without dragons.)

Modifié par KOM_95, 06 juin 2013 - 10:51 .

[Mr.House]

You can't reclaim anything if you have no power, vessels or army. Tell me what Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickton or Jon have that they could overhrow Roose Boulton and all the other factions.

[KOM_95]

Mr.House wrote...

You can't reclaim anything if you have no power, vessels or army. Tell me what Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickton or Jon have that they could overhrow Roose Boulton and all the other factions.

Their best bet is to piggy back on Stannis and hope to get revenge in the process. Rickon seems the only one but he's like 6 so he'll just be a figurehead. Other than that nothing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Mr.House wrote...

Seraph Cross wrote...

Who do you guys consider the main characters in the series? I know this show has several POV's but still. Name 3-5 if you want to

Tyrion, Daenerys and Jon

Yea the three people I couldn't care less about. 

EDIT: well I do like Jon more than the other 2. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juin 2013 - 11:05 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

billy the squid wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Starks were never going to treat from a position of strength. They had to be crippled first. The North is in no position to challenge Lannister and Tyrell forces. Riverrun has been pacified, as the Frey's hold Edmure, and the Blackfish is besiged in River run again.

While the Starks had enough force to strike back and retake the North they were still a Threat, along with the River Lords. Now they're not. 

They don't have to challenge the Lannisters and Tyrells.  Are southern forces going to come up and pacify them during a winter?  Not hardly.  I said that no Lannister could hold the north, not that the northerners could overturn the rule of the south.  The Lannisters and Boltons have got at best a generation.

The North never forgets.

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

Arya (ninja), Sansa (learning from the best player of the game), Bran  (swampthing), Rickon (probably nothing after the timeskip was selved), Jon (maybe) plus the surprise one. More or less things are even.

And none of them have any authority, power or vassals to fight in their name. The War of Five Kings, started a free for all with various factions making a grab for power. Procaliming themselves as the Starks of Winterfell only works if anyone bothers to listen, and no one is going to listen without an army to back them up at the moment. 

Neither did Daenerys in the beginning, in fact she was pretty much a sex slave until she learned to work with her situation and gain loyal followers one after the next.

It doesn't take much to start on the road to power, at least for the few exceptional cases involving title characters.

Will the starks have as easy a time as she did? Probably not, most likely not. But can they still do it? Yes, yes they can.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 06 juin 2013 - 11:17 .

[MisterJB]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

White walkers will make an excellent point for why the targaryans and their fire breathing, able to light multiple white walkers with ease, dragons should be the one to lead them.

Wigths are vulnerable to fire and immune to obsidian.
White Walkers are vulnerable to obsidian and immune to fire.
So, while the dragons would be useful in dealing with the undead armies of the Others, they would be a non-factor when the time came to deal with their masters; unless the secret to forging Valyrian steel weapons is dragonfire. (that is assuming being stomped on by a dragon wouldn't kill an Other) Plus, whether dragons would be able to fly and breathe fire in a snowstorm is still up for debate.

[Cainhurst Crow]

MisterJB wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

White walkers will make an excellent point for why the targaryans and their fire breathing, able to light multiple white walkers with ease, dragons should be the one to lead them.

Wigths are vulnerable to fire and immune to obsidian.
White Walkers are vulnerable to obsidian and immune to fire.
So, while the dragons would be useful in dealing with the undead armies of the Others, they would be a non-factor when the time came to deal with their masters; unless the secret to forging Valyrian steel weapons is dragonfire. (that is assuming being stomped on by a dragon wouldn't kill an Other) Plus, whether dragons would be able to fly and breathe fire in a snowstorm is still up for debate.

A very valid point, they've never experienced the cold in their lives in essos. I have no clue myself if they'll be able to do much in the cold, being reptiles and all.

Assuming they are cold blooded, that is.

[Addai]

billy the squid wrote...

Why would they? The Lannisters are quite content to let the Boltons, Starks (what's left of them) Karstarks and Iron born along with the Wildlings fight it out in the North. 

The Starks never forget would be a more apt discription, and there aren't many left. The Boltons were once kings of the North until they were overthrown by the Starks I believe. This is the point. It's not just the Lannisters the Starks have to contend with, it's every other faction which is now vying for control of the North. And they're are all Northern factions. 

I'm not talking about the Starks regaining their control, but about the Lannisters not being able to keep it.  And you're wrong that the Lannisters don't want that.  If they didn't, Tywin would never have forced Tyrion to marry Sansa.  He wants five kingdoms, not just the south, and he'll never hold it.  As has already been pointed out, the Starks have ruled in the North since anyone can remember, and have done it well for the most part, but when you take out the heir apparent, that leaves everyone wanting to try for top dog.

[Brockololly]

Mr.House wrote...

You can't reclaim anything if you have no power, vessels or army. Tell me what Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickton or Jon have that they could overhrow Roose Boulton and all the other factions.

A thousand eyes and one.



But that's getting too book spoilery for this thread.

[Dr. Doctor]

I think that the only real threat to Bolton's control of the North is going to be Baelish he's slowly trying to win Sansa over, and as it stands she's the only Stark who's still a known quantity (Arya's missing, Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead, Jon's not a full Stark).

All that needs to happen for Westeros to fall back into chaos is for Tywin to be removed from the equation. Jaime's Kingsguard, Cersei is utterly incompetent, Tyrion has no chance to inherit Casterly Rock, and Kevan is too much of a nice guy to play the game. The threat of Tywin either bankrupting other houses or going "Rains of Castamere" on them is what's keeping the Lannisters in power, take him away and they'll fold like a house of cards.

[RedArmyShogun]

lol some of you really need to do two things.

One read the bloody books.

Two. No one is safe.

[Inquisitor Recon]

When Roose Bolton gives something resembling a smile, anybody with senses should have followed the Blackfish outside.