11084 réponses à ce sujet

[horacethegrey]

Just wanted to pop up in here and give my two cents on the 'crowning' scene. 

For my part, that scene was way more brutal onscreen than in the book. In the book, Drogo upends the pot over Viserys' head, and Dany can only see his body's jerky reactions and listen to his ear piercing screams as that scene unfolds. Here, we get to see the molten gold actually cover his head! A better effect onscreen overall, but still... gruesome.

And I have to agree with everyone here, Harry Lloyd brought a lot of heart to his performance as the mad prince. Made you feel for him while wanting to see him get his just deserts. It almost makes you feel sorry for him when he finally gets his wish granted by Drogo. Almost.

As for the show overall, it's been consistently entertaining. But I dread the last few eps, as those who've read the books know what fates befall the characters. To those who haven't read the books, be prepared to shed some tears.

[Seagloom]

TJPags wrote...

I really disliked Viserys from word one in the book.  In the series, I really saw him as a tragic figure.  Well done by the actor to pull that off without a lot of screen time (compared to others).  Leaves me wondering which should be the "real" Viserys.

Oddly, I'm not liking Dany as much in the series as in the books.  Then, I loved her in the books, so she's still up there.  She just seems - harder - in the series.  Again, makes me wonder which was intended.

Your post helped me open my eyes. That is, why I felt so unsympathetic toward Viserys here despite Harry Lloyd's performance injecting some humanity into him. I am not seeing "Game of Thrones" as its own series. I am seeing it as an extension of the books. Instead of letting every character stand on what they do in the show, I bring all their collected baggage from the novels into it. I remember everything Viserys or whoever else has said, done, and will do in the novels; and that affects my perception of them. Tyrion has been the only exception so far for reasons I can only guess at.

Modifié par Seagloom, 24 mai 2011 - 11:31 .

[Brockololly]

TJPags wrote...
Oddly, I'm not liking Dany as much in the series as in the books.  Then, I loved her in the books, so she's still up there.  She just seems - harder - in the series.  Again, makes me wonder which was intended.

Yeah, I'm not liking Dany as much in the show either. I think of all the characters, you really lose the most with Dany not being able to hear her internal thoughts like you can in the books.


And oh man, I'm almost done with A Clash of Kings now and woah. What the heck, Melisandre. I'm going to be interested to see how they do some of the special effects for season 2...

And if anyone wants a good deal on getting all the books at once, you can get a nice little boxed set that has all 4 together for about $20 from Amazon.

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 mai 2011 - 01:57 .

[Seagloom]

Melisandre rocks. I am sooo looking forward to seeing her realized on the show.

[Addai]

Funny how everyone has different perceptions of characters. Melisandre is the closest thing to real evil in the books, as far as I'm concerned. She and Cersei are in the running for it, I guess. Though knowing GRRM, she'll end up saving the day.

[SarEnyaDor]

There are so many terrifying scenes I can't wait to see - Melisandre and Davos in the boat beneath the castle is one of them, Dany with the eggs on the pyre, Ser Dondarrion after any number of deaths, the door beneath the Night Castle, Joff's wedding - not for the visuals but just because LOL

Season 2 can't come fast enough!

[SarEnyaDor]

Addai67 wrote...

Funny how everyone has different perceptions of characters. Melisandre is the closest thing to real evil in the books, as far as I'm concerned. She and Cersei are in the running for it, I guess. Though knowing GRRM, she'll end up saving the day.

You know, I keep waivering on Melisandre myself... I suspect she is doing evil, evil things for what she believes is the good for all - but I keep on thinking that if you have to do evil to accomplish good it can't be all that good, can it?

[barenas]

The thinking on Melisandre is that the end justifies the means. Does that make her evil?

[Seagloom]

Generally speaking, I do not believe the ends ever justify the means. I see selling out one's ideals whenever they lose their convenience as a sign of weak character. That might mean a person who sticks to their guns occasionally ends up in a Stark situation, and that is sad, but the alternative strikes me as worse on an intangible level.

That said, I like Melisandre as a villain but not a person. I suppose I also like Cersei as a villain; although she comes across as slightly more one dimensional to me at times. The difference between them and Viserys is they are more interesting to muse over, craftier, and intelligently proactive. Cersei in particular has that machiavellian thing going for her through much of the story. Melisandre is, for want of a better word, the "cool" villain of this story. At least I see her that way. She is the type of character I know is wicked, but love to see in action. Sort of like Darth Vader in the original "Star Wars" trilogy, to draw one parallel.

I feel like I beat up on Viserys enough in my posts here, so I will wrap it up by stating he lacked villainous qualities I appreciate. I am not too fond of Jaime either, and dislike his slowly crawling redemption arc. I don't want him redeemed, dammit. Not unless it's right before death.

Modifié par Seagloom, 24 mai 2011 - 05:08 .

[Addai]

It's torture to me that I like Jaime. He's the one I hate to love. I don't think I really have anyone I love to hate- all the characters are too complex. I think the thing I don't like about Melisandre is that she's the books' closest thing to a wizard, and thus she gets "outs" that no one else does. Maybe there's an explanation coming for how she can do what she can do, but her interventions always feel contrived to me.

[HoonDing]

I'm a bit puzzled about Sansa being so different from the other Stark kids. She's basically one of Cinderella's stepsisters.

Catelyn Stark didn't have a bastard child of her own, did she, to spite Ned?

She's a perfect match for Prince Jackass, I must say. She's so annoying she would fit right next one of the token female characters from Wheel of Time.

Modifié par virumor, 24 mai 2011 - 07:46 .

[Addai]

virumor wrote...

I'm a bit puzzled about Sansa being so different from the other Stark kids. She's basically one of Cinderella's stepsisters.

Catelyn Stark didn't have a bastard child of her own, did she, to spite Ned?

She's a perfect match for Prince Jackass, I must say.

I think she's meant to be like Catelyn, who is not a sweet lady.  But all the Stark kids are supposed to have a sharp side to them.  I don't remember Sansa being quite so b*tchy to the septa, though.  Anyone who's read the book recently, is that in there?

This is a cool article on the visual effects.  Don't look if you don't want to see how the visual sausage is made.  Also a spoiler for the season finale at the end of page 2.  The spoiler sounds promising, for those of us who know what's going to happen. 

Ratings dipped a little on ep 6, from 2.6 mil to 2.4 mil.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 mai 2011 - 07:51 .

[Seagloom]

I have to admit, I almost kind of sort of maybe like Jaime at times. :/ It feels like I should dislike him more than I do.

I see Melisandre as wizard-like too, but I consider it a plus. She is actually a passable example of how I feel magic should be handled in a story. Fantastic, frightful, and influential, yet ultimately unknowable. I hope GRRM never gives us a point by point exposition of how her tricks function. The magic of magic quickly fades when we are told all its rules. Melisandre explaining how she believes it works may not be a bad thing, though.

Right now I get the sense her meddling and slipping out of scrapes demonstrates she is dangerous, but also not quite what she appears to be to us as readers, and to characters within the story itself. However, I can understand why one might come away feeling Melisandre wears plot armor. GRRM needs take care or he may fall into the trap of making her into a deus ex machina. Unless that is actually his intention; in which case he may be telegraphing her influence too early to avoid a sudden and seemingly nonsensical outcome later. Time will tell.

Modifié par Seagloom, 24 mai 2011 - 07:58 .

[Addai]

I assume that her tricks are a powerful form of... now I'm getting into spoiler territory for those who haven't finished book one, so beware...



a powerful form of the blood magic Dany encounters, which is also never fully explained. I'm okay with a little mystery- I don't really want to know how the Others work, either- but I do see Melisandre as playing a deus ex machina role already. There are outcomes that could never happen if not for her hocus pocus.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 mai 2011 - 10:39 .

[twincast]

Sansa is, in a word, stupid - I can't hate her for that. She gets better, though, and after having been by far the most boring POV until her very latest appearances (and those chapters were interesting despite her, not because of her), I'm actually really looking forward to what happens to her (and of course her "father") next.

Whenever I remember child-tossing and other assorted dickery, I wish I could still hate Jaime. LOL

I continuously want to slap Beric silly for you know what.

Gregor is no master villain, but as far as the vilest people in the books go, he's right at the top.

Cersei is an evil, scheming basket case and I enjoy her immensely for that.

Olenna is probably not much better, if any, but she goes at it both more likeably and more effectively. *heart*

Tywin's probably somewhere in the middle in both respects.

Old Walder is merely a bit player, but as far as (self-perceived) puppet masters go, it doesn't get much eviler than him.

Melisandre is religiously deluded by her wacky interpretations of most likely true prophecies, but she aims for the greater good, so since the threat she prepares against is actually real (unlike for examply Loghain's manic fixation on his Orlesian whale) I'm not sure I'd even call her a villain.

[TJPags]

virumor wrote...

I'm a bit puzzled about Sansa being so different from the other Stark kids. She's basically one of Cinderella's stepsisters.

Catelyn Stark didn't have a bastard child of her own, did she, to spite Ned?

She's a perfect match for Prince Jackass, I must say. She's so annoying she would fit right next one of the token female characters from Wheel of Time.

This made me laugh quite loudly.  Thank you for that. 

Question - have you read the books?  Just curious, she's been petty accurately portrayed.

I wouldn't say she's stupid - I'd say she's extremely naive.  Sheltered and silly.  It makes more sense when you consider she's younger in the books . . 13 I think?

Some thoughts on other characters:

Jaime - I never hated him, didn't like him much in the early books - read him as "villain", likely as he was intended to be portrayed.  However, in later books - SoS and aFfC, particularly, I started warming up to him.  He's not a bad guy - more a frustrated one.

Melisandre - absolutely evil person, IMO, but a hell of a character.  Very compelling.  She's intelligent, manipulative, willing to do anything to meet her goals.  Very strong willed.  *spoiler alert - there is some advanced book info at the end of this post related to her.

Robb, I never really warmed up to, in the books.  Not really warming to him in the series - in fact, I'm cooler on him in the series.  Not sure why, really, on either count.

Dany - As someone mentioned, I think hearing her thoughts in the book helped my good impression of her.  Yes, she can be ruthless, but I got the sense she didn't LIKE to be so.   She's well done in the series, we're just missing that glimpse of her thought process. 





Spoiler here - be warned:

I do look forward to how they'll play the Melisandre scenes related to the shadow births.  That said, I found her to be more human when she was at the Wall with Jon and Stanos.  More concerned about others.  Still had her ruthless streak, sure - but she seemed a little more . . . human is really the only word I can find for this.

[casedawgz]

Seagloom wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I really disliked Viserys from word one in the book.  In the series, I really saw him as a tragic figure.  Well done by the actor to pull that off without a lot of screen time (compared to others).  Leaves me wondering which should be the "real" Viserys.

Oddly, I'm not liking Dany as much in the series as in the books.  Then, I loved her in the books, so she's still up there.  She just seems - harder - in the series.  Again, makes me wonder which was intended.

Your post helped me open my eyes. That is, why I felt so unsympathetic toward Viserys here despite Harry Lloyd's performance injecting some humanity into him. I am not seeing "Game of Thrones" as its own series. I am seeing it as an extension of the books. Instead of letting every character stand on what they do in the show, I bring all their collected baggage from the novels into it. I remember everything Viserys or whoever else has said, done, and will do in the novels; and that affects my perception of them. Tyrion has been the only exception so far for reasons I can only guess at.

I've got the reason for you. It's Peter Dinklage. He's incredible.

[naughty99]

Seagloom wrote...

TJPags wrote...

I really disliked Viserys from word one in the book.  In the series, I really saw him as a tragic figure.  Well done by the actor to pull that off without a lot of screen time (compared to others).  Leaves me wondering which should be the "real" Viserys.

Oddly, I'm not liking Dany as much in the series as in the books.  Then, I loved her in the books, so she's still up there.  She just seems - harder - in the series.  Again, makes me wonder which was intended.

Your post helped me open my eyes. That is, why I felt so unsympathetic toward Viserys here despite Harry Lloyd's performance injecting some humanity into him. I am not seeing "Game of Thrones" as its own series. I am seeing it as an extension of the books. Instead of letting every character stand on what they do in the show, I bring all their collected baggage from the novels into it. I remember everything Viserys or whoever else has said, done, and will do in the novels; and that affects my perception of them. Tyrion has been the only exception so far for reasons I can only guess at.

So you DIDN'T like Tyrion in the novels?

He was by far my favorite character.

Addai67 wrote...

It's torture to me that I like Jaime. He's the one I hate to love. I don't think I really have anyone I love to hate- all the characters are too complex. I think the thing I don't like about Melisandre is that she's the books' closest thing to a wizard, and thus she gets "outs" that no one else does. Maybe there's an explanation coming for how she can do what she can do, but her interventions always feel contrived to me.

IMO Jaime became a lot more likeable....

SPOILER.......






....later in the series

Modifié par naughty99, 25 mai 2011 - 03:24 .

[LTD]

Spoilers for those who haven't read the books.


Somewhere during Feast for Crows, I kinda got the feeling GRRM is forcing reader to like Jaime. Earlier on in the books, he was up there among characters you mostly love to hate. That's right where I want him!:l His immense charisma and anti-hero qualioties brought enjoyable mind**** undertone to this whole love/hate biz.  During Feast, he began morphing into this I dunno..Han Solo type, always doing the right thing in the end:l Rooting for him became too easy.

Modifié par LTD, 25 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[Addai]

Oh I definitely think GRRM intended to redeem Jaime. It's the way he rolls. Good characters aren't all that good, bad characters aren't all that bad, and sometimes **** just happens. It's part of the fun of his books. For me it happened with Tyrion, too- I didn't like him early on, then you get these, "wait, I like WHO now?!" moments.

[Bryzon]

I love this series and I hope to have time to start the series (books) when my Summer semester ends.

[LTD]

Addai67 wrote...

Oh I definitely think GRRM intended to
redeem Jaime. It's the way he rolls. Good characters aren't all that
good, bad characters aren't all that bad, and sometimes **** just
happens. It's part of the fun of his books. For me it happened with
Tyrion, too- I didn't like him early on, then you get these, "wait, I
like WHO now?!" moments.

Ay you say true.
....I just thought he went too far this time:l Like he is trying too hard with Jaime:( 

Modifié par LTD, 25 mai 2011 - 03:47 .

[panzerwzh]

Jaime lost one hand but he find his heart of a true knight.

BTW, Little Finger RULES!

[WeRtheBrox]

TJPags wrote...
I wouldn't say she's stupid - I'd say she's extremely naive.  Sheltered and silly.  It makes more sense when you consider she's younger in the books . . 13 I think?

I just started reading GoT, and it appears that they aged all the children a bit - Jon & Robb are 14 in the book, Jeoffrey 12, Sansa 11, Arya 8 I think, Bran 7, Rickon 3, Robert Arryn 6, etc.  It was probably easier from a casting standpoint to age them all by a few years.  Plus, it may ease some people's modern sensibilities not to see prepubescents being married off - while I understand intellectually that the child/adult lines vary across cultures and eras, it would still skeeve me a little bit if Daenaerys was portrayed in her early teens as she is in the book.

[Addai]

Yes, they deliberately aged up the children, because of the practicalities of filming difficult material with young kids.