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[Fast Jimmy]

*sigh*wtf HBO.

I just did a Google search to see what confession from Jaime you were talking about.

I agree - WTF HBO. The entire scene just flat out didn't make sense to me. With that one confession it would have finally made perfect sense.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I just did a Google search to see what confession from Jaime you were talking about.

I agree - WTF HBO. The entire scene just flat out didn't make sense to me. With that one confession it would have finally made perfect sense.

They replaced that break down with the courtroom break down- I think they thought having Tyrion turn on Jamie or Jamie telling Tyrion the truth would somehow make the audience lose sympathy for both of them. Also, do we really need another rape reference this season?

[Fast Jimmy]

They replaced that break down with the courtroom break down- I think they thought having Tyrion turn on Jamie or Jamie telling Tyrion the truth would somehow make the audience lose sympathy for both of them. Also, do we really need another rape reference this season?

It honestly made me lose sympathy for Tyrion as an intelligent person. He risked running across one of the most heavily guarded fortresses in Westeros, where being caught was instant death, to meet up with his father who was a renowned swordsman while Tyrion didn't even have a knife going into the room. And for what? Tyrion has always been logical to a fault, where he knew the risk of going to his father, even without the intent to kill him, would have cost him his life, something be desperately is glad to have back.

None of it made sense. Now... if you suddenly have a Tyrion that is angry beyond all reasoning, who finds that the father who has tormented him all of his life actually destroyed the one thing good and happy he ever truly experienced, THEN the idea of a Tyrion in a blind rage, oblivious to all threats, makes sense. As is, it just seems highly out of character to say "well, I've got a chance at freedom and life away from the constant interference by my family... but I'm going to risk messing that up to go chat with daddy."

[Khayness]

I've just finished reading a recap about the finale, what the ****?

 

Please tell me Stannis didn't really go to the Wall to play the Chosen One, because a hot sorceress told him to? His reasoning in the books is one of my favourite lines ever.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

It honestly made me lose sympathy for Tyrion as an intelligent person. He risked running across one of the most heavily guarded fortresses in Westeros, where being caught was instant death, to meet up with his father who was a renowned swordsman while Tyrion didn't even have a knife going into the room. And for what? Tyrion has always been logical to a fault, where he knew the risk of going to his father, even without the intent to kill him, would have cost him his life, something be desperately is glad to have back.

None of it made sense. Now... if you suddenly have a Tyrion that is angry beyond all reasoning, who finds that the father who has tormented him all of his life actually destroyed the one thing good and happy he ever truly experienced, THEN the idea of a Tyrion in a blind rage, oblivious to all threats, makes sense. As is, it just seems highly out of character to say "well, I've got a chance at freedom and life away from the constant interference by my family... but I'm going to risk messing that up to go chat with daddy."

Did he know where he was? He had no prior knowledge of the tunnel lay outs, and I don't believe had been in Tywin's renovated Tower of the Hand. So, when he came out in it, I don't think he had a "plan."

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I've just finished reading a recap about the finale, what the ****?

 

Please tell me Stannis didn't really go to the Wall to play the Chosen One, because a hot sorceress told him to? His reasoning in the books is one of my favourite lines ever.

Tactically, going to the Wall makes sense. He can rally Ned/Robb's forces by playing on the fact that Ned died to give power to Stannis, and make sure he's not fighting the Tyrells and the Lannisters all at once. By coming at them from the North and killing Bolton, he could slam down hard, freeing one opponent of the Lannisters after the other. Also, saving the wall (even if he thinks its just from wildlings) will garner sympathy. Any other boons are just an advantage.

[Khayness]

Tactically, going to the Wall makes sense. He can rally Ned/Robb's forces by playing on the fact that Ned died to give power to Stannis, and make sure he's not fighting the Tyrells and the Lannisters all at once. By coming at them from the North and killing Bolton, he could slam down hard, freeing one opponent of the Lannisters after the other. Also, saving the wall (even if he thinks its just from wildlings) will garner sympathy. Any other boons are just an advantage.

 

The North remembers.

 

My issue is with the portrayal of Stannis.

 

From what I've gathered reading recaps and speaking to friends who haven't read the books, Stannis is just a stubborn dude who got suckered into Melisandre's charms, and prancing on The Wall because he is R'hllor's chosen and he must fight against the Great Other. According to the recap, his decision to go to The Wall wasn't made because he wanted to save the kingdom to win the throne (as said in his badass quote from the books), but because he's supposed to do that as the chosen one.

 

I just hope it isn't the case and Kotaku's recap sessions suck.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

The North remembers.

 

My issue is with the portrayal of Stannis.

 

From what I've gathered reading recaps and speaking to friends who haven't read the books, Stannis is just a stubborn dude who got suckered into Melisandre's charms, and prancing on The Wall because he is R'hllor's chosen and he must fight against the Great Other. According to the recap, his decision to go to The Wall wasn't made because he wanted to save the kingdom to win the throne (as said in his badass quote from the books), but because he's supposed to do that as the chosen one.

Stannis isn't likeable. He's the King you want when monsters are at the gate, but he doesn't have the common touch that Ned had or the skill at associating with nobles that Renly had. He's good at being just and largely unbiased; Melisandre is his weak point, but to him she's a tool to protect the kingdom with.

[Fast Jimmy]

Did he know where he was? He had no prior knowledge of the tunnel lay outs, and I don't believe had been in Tywin's renovated Tower of the Hand. So, when he came out in it, I don't think he had a "plan."

I guess I was confused on that part, about where the secret passage left off and where it was Tyrion just walking around.

Did the secret passage lead him right into Tywin's room? Who puts a secret passage from the prisons directly to the room of the king?

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Inbred Targaryens, that's who.

The passage ways go anywhere you would want to go in King's Landing- it's how Varys stays in the know and travels so quickly.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I've just finished reading a recap about the finale, what the ****?

 

Please tell me Stannis didn't really go to the Wall to play the Chosen One, because a hot sorceress told him to? His reasoning in the books is one of my favourite lines ever.

Haven't you noticed David and Dan's blatant bias against Stannis at all during the past few seasons? He's hardly the same (awesome) character that he is in the books. The show really doesn't do him justice. Turning him into this zealous and seemingly villainous character is really disappointing.

 

The first half of the finale was not that bad, in my opinion. But turning tyrion and jaime into basically two-dimensional characters ruined the second half of the show. I would have liked to see tyrion going psychopathic at Jaime's reveal. But I guess at this point you can't expect that kind of in depth storytelling from dan and dave.

[Khayness]

Haven't you noticed David and Dan's blatant bias against Stannis at all during the past few seasons? He's hardly the same (awesome) character that he is in the books.

 

I don't watch the show, I just try to keep up with it, so I can see my friends squirm. I usually don't follow unfinished TV shows, because of drop of quality thanks to milking them past their prime, and the trend of massive ending copouts surfacing lately.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Haven't you noticed David and Dan's blatant bias against Stannis at all during the past few seasons? He's hardly the same (awesome) character that he is in the books. The show really doesn't do him justice. Turning him into this zealous and seemingly villainous character is really disappointing.

 

The first half of the finale was not that bad, in my opinion. But turning tyrion and jaime into basically two-dimensional characters ruined the second half of the show. I would have liked to
see tyrion going psychopathic at Jaime's reveal. But I guess at this point you can't expect that kind of in depth storytelling from dan and dave.

Stannis, however, *is* villainous in the books. He just blindly enforces laws. The exception to this is Melisandre, and the main reason he comes off as a villain- he allows her to burn his followers. He allowed her to destroy his followers religious symbols. She performs live sacrifices, blood magic, and killed his brother with a vaginal smoke monster. Without her, Stannis would be a good choice. With her, he allows chaos.

That's kind of judgmental. It doesn't mean we won't see the reveal later, they may have thought it didn't match the rhythm of the episode. Maybe, we'll meet Tysha in the east, and get it straight from her.
 

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Stannis, however, *is* villainous in the books. He just blindly enforces laws. The exception to this is Melisandre, and the main reason he comes off as a villain- he allows her to burn his followers. He allowed her to destroy his followers religious symbols. She performs live sacrifices, blood magic, and killed his brother with a vaginal smoke monster. Without her, Stannis would be a good choice. With her, he allows chaos.

That's kind of judgmental. It doesn't mean we won't see the reveal later, they may have thought it didn't match the rhythm of the episode. Maybe, we'll meet Tysha in the east, and get it straight from her.

It sounds like your main issue with Stannis is not really Stannis, but Melisandre.

 

I can agree that Melisandre has been a catalyst for those villainous events to take place, and that Stannis is hardly a saint for allowing those things to happen. But out of all the pretenders I've seen, he's the only one that cares about having the iron throne to save the kingdom, rather than just having it for the sake of power or birthright. I think his more virtuous aspects, in addition to Davos's good counsel, both act as a counterbalance to Melisandre's more villainous influence.

 

And I doubt they are going to bring up Tysha ever again in the show. Bringing her into the plot down the road without Jaime's reveal just doesn't make any sense at this point.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

It sounds like your main issue with Stannis is not really Stannis, but Melisandre.

 

I can agree that Melisandre has been a catalyst for those villainous events to take place, and that Stannis is hardly a saint for allowing those things to happen. But out of all the pretenders I've seen, he's the only one that cares about having the iron throne to save the kingdom, rather than just having it for the sake of power or birthright. I think his more virtuous aspects, in addition to Davos's good counsel, both act as a counterbalance to Melisandre's more villainous influence.

 

And I doubt they are going to bring up Tysha ever again in the show. Bringing her into the plot down the road without Jaime's reveal just doesn't make any sense at this point.

Robb was a noble pretender, and only wanted the North. Also, Dany could make a good Queen, but needs more experience ruling.

If Tyrion ends up fighting (well, more likely advising a leader) against his siblings/ nephew in the future, the reveal from Tysha about what happened could be a major catalyst.

[Mr.House]

They replaced that break down with the courtroom break down- I think they thought having Tyrion turn on Jamie or Jamie telling Tyrion the truth would somehow make the audience lose sympathy for both of them. Also, do we really need another rape reference this season?

Which is typical HBO, changing things for no reason at all. The same thing happen with the Red Wedding and other big scenes too, they also love to pull the same stuff with TWD too...

[Lorien19]

Ok many things I didn't expect happened in this episode and those I expected, I didn't see...Still liking the show however it ill be a long wait until april 2015.
At least I'll have DAI to pass the time.

[Fishy]

I don't know- she could take down Loras, who most seem to agree is one of the best Knights. He usually wins in any competition he's in; now, Brienne would have had a clean victory, but the Hound fights dirty, and Brienne has now proven that she can too. I think the Hound was ready to die.

 

Spoiler

A real fight and a competition is quite different. Like I said. She was more of a showoff until that point. The hound had life threatening battle experience. There's no ''fighting'' dirty when your life is at stake. That something the hound teached Arya. Not everything will go your way when you're in a real fight. It's not a game or a teaching lessons. It's like school really. Somebody fresh from school who think they he everything because they learned it in a class. Reality will hit him in the face when they start working.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Spoiler

A real fight and a competition is quite different. Like I said. She was more of a showoff until that point. The hound had life threatening battle experience. There's no ''fighting'' dirty when your life is at stake. That something the hound teached Arya. Not everything will go your way when you're in a real fight. It's not a game or a teaching lessons.

True, but many of the skills learned in a melee or jousting help bolster fighting skills. Brienne has those, as well as a willingness to eat someone's face meat to escape.

[Fishy]

True, but many of the skills learned in a melee or jousting help bolster fighting skills. Brienne has those, as well as a willingness to eat someone's face meat to escape.

 

Of course. But no practice beat real experience. She defnitly got it with that fight. Which is why I enjoyed the fight. Showing us that Brienne is more than just competition and shiny valerian sword. She got out of her comfort zone fighting the hound lol.

 

edit

 

It added depth to her character.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Also, The Hound prove Valyrian steel only has an advantage if you can keep a grip on it.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Spoiler

Is Tywin really dead?  I like him, the man is an awesome leader. Read about Tywin's history, his father Tytos was a kind but spineless man, who became a joke among his own bannermen and lords, the position of the Lannisters was worthless under Tytos, Tywin had to grow up seeing his father and family become a laughing stock and be taken advantage of by those who should have been giving them respect. This caused him to never laugh because he had learned to distrust laughter, and he also never smiled becasue of this. When the Reynes rebelled he took command and exterminated them all as a warning to those who would oppose them. Tywin was the one who ruthlessly and cruelly brought honor and order back to his family, doing some evil and degrading things to restore his families honor and build his status as the greatest house. The only time he smiled was with his wife, when she died giving birth to Tyrion, the best part of Tywin died with her and he never smiled again, and held a deep dislike and disgust for his deformed son.

Ah well... In the books almost everyone dies by the end of DOTD... But the story goes on...

Big loss for the Westerlands, I can't see the Tyrells ruling it without a few battles with Stannis, Balon and some Lannister bannermen, they have too many enemies.

[WildOrchid]

Spoiler

I loved the battle between Brienne and the hound so much. You go, my girl.

[Milan92]

 

What has been seen... XD

[Il Divo]

There was also more room in the books for Tyrion to doubt killing Shae was justified-it was more self defense on the show than crime of passion, it seemed like.

 

I actually thought the books gave him more justification. In the show, they portray Shae as frustrated with how Tyrion tries to get rid of her and ships her off. In the books, she straight up double crosses him, if I remember right.

 

Brienne is one of the best warriors in the Kingdom's, though- why do you say she wouldn't have been able to fight the Hound and win?

 

That's a hard one to say, but from a books perspective I think Jaime at one point makes the argument that Brienne is almost as good as he was in his prime and that he only considered himself surpassed by Sandor/Gregor.

 

Of course, it's important to keep in mind that one fight really can't determine overall ability. Who's to say that the two weren't so evenly matched that, in different circumstances, Sandor might come out on top? I feel like that could be said for many fights. Oberyn and Gregor, as another example.