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[CronoDragoon]

See, I completely disagree. They mentioned the line from Melisandre saying that "the real threat was beyond the wall" or whatever back from Season 2, something I as a show watched had completely forgot about. You can say do a two sentence recap in the intro to the show and BOOM - instantly you can talk about things you haven't mentioned in two dozen episodes. It's not complicated - Tyrion married a woman he loved, he found she was a prostitute paid by his brother and upon finding out, his father had her brutally raped. That's easy and then not at all an issue when forty minutes later, you refer to that very same event in the past.

I think, as a show watcher, it was inexcusable to cut that out. We knew who she was, we knew her importance to Tyrion and we knew Jaime bought her and that Tywin cruelly punished her and Tyrion for getting married. This wasn't simplicity, it was just unnecessary removal of vital plot points. I felt the episode fell flat when I watched it and the scene with Tyrion and Tywin felt half of the reason why. That one piece of dialogue would have changed the entire dynamic for the better.

 

Fair point about the intro recap, but what was necessary or vital about the Tysha revelation?

 

If I had to guess why it was removed, I'd say that besides what I said before, they wanted the Jaime/Tyrion friendship to continue, and they didn't feel it was necessary for the Shae/Tywin scenes. I disagree that the Tyrion/Tywin scene fell flat, mostly because of how vicious and devastating the Shae strangling scene was. By the time Tyrion is carrying the crossbow to the privy, I'm fully on board with him.

[Mr.House]

Fair point about the intro recap, but what was necessary or vital about the Tysha revelation?

Tyrion had a real genuine reason to throw logic out the window?

[Fast Jimmy]

Tyrion had a real genuine reason to throw logic out the window?

Exactly. Tyrion had no reason at all to sneak into his father's (who was twice his size and an expert swordsman) bedroom unarmed. There was no way Tyrion could have known he would be disposed on the toilet, or that there would be a weapon right at hand conveniently. A Tyrion in a rage would have considered none of this, but normal Tyrion? He would have been smart, he would have weighed his options and he would have escaped with his life. Going to Tywin's room meant none of those things except in a truly unforeseeable series of events.

Poor choice. Very poor choice.

[CronoDragoon]

Tyrion had a real genuine reason to throw logic out the window?

 

Logic went out the window when Tyrion demanded trial by combat instead of going to the Wall. It's already well-established at that point that he's seeing red and would like nothing more than to see all the schemers die, including and especially Tywin.

 

Lest we forget:

 

[AresKeith]

Logic went out the window when Tyrion demanded trial by combat instead of going to the Wall. It's already well-established at that point that he's seeing red and would like nothing more than to see all the schemers die, including and especially Tywin.

 

Lest we forget:

 

 

Give that man ALL the emmys 

[slimgrin]

Exactly. Tyrion had no reason at all to sneak into his father's (who was twice his size and an expert swordsman) bedroom unarmed. There was no way Tyrion could have known he would be disposed on the toilet, or that there would be a weapon right at hand conveniently. A Tyrion in a rage would have considered none of this, but normal Tyrion? He would have been smart, he would have weighed his options and he would have escaped with his life. Going to Tywin's room meant none of those things except in a truly unforeseeable series of events.

Poor choice. Very poor choice.

 

I thought the same, a stupid move by an otherwise brilliant character. Seemed out of place. And oh look, Arya's a ruthless little sh*t now. Lost all interest in her, frankly. I can only take so many bastards in one show. Then I cease to care. But that fight between Brienne and the Hound was great.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I thought the same, a stupid move by an otherwise brilliant character. Seemed out of place. And oh look, Arya's a ruthless little sh*t now. Lost all interest in her, frankly. I can only take so many bastards in one show. Then I cease to care. But that fight between Brienne and the Hound was great.

What cause would she have to not be ruthless? Everyone she loves or was related to is dead or out of her reach. The only people she sees who survive are manipulators or murderers who kill or outwit others. The Hound she only followed out of convenience, and inability to kill. Heroes don't live, and justice is doled out by kings, something she'll never be- but vengeance? Vengeance isn't fair. Vengeance isn't right.

She's never been the hero- she's the anti-hero.

She's not the hero these nations deserve, but the one they need right now.

She's Batman.

[mybudgee]

Awesome! I loved every minute! Especially Brienne vs Hound, Tyrion vs Tywin and Hodor vs Dragur platoon!!

[Dutchess]

It was the middle of the night when Tyrion was let out of his cell. He probably assumed Tywin was asleep, hence why he stalked toward the bed.

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

You know, I think that is the biggest failing on this show; how it loses all those phropecies s. Who is the third dragon? Who is Azor Ahai? Is the rusted dragon meant to represent this new Aegon?

You just don't hear these questions asked amidst those who watch the show.

 

I've personally discovered an answer to all these. It is same for each;(warning, spoilers!) I don't give a flying ****. Phropecies in worlds real and ficitonal both share same odor of BS. about them. Author can change and stealthily retcon them as he pleases. There is no great riddle for readers  to solve in them.

[Il Divo]

Question: Where is everybody hearing this "Tywin is an expert swordsman" bit? I honestly can't remember where that's from. 

[smoke and mirrors]

I wish they did the line Tyrion used when he killed Tywin . The line about Lannister not pooping gold .

[Ozzy]

I wish they did the line Tyrion used when he killed Tywin . The line about Lannister not pooping gold .

Didn't he say it in his head in the books? 

 

It would have just sounded cheesy had it been vocalised anyway. The look he gave him spoke volumes in any case. 

[Dreadstruck]

So, are the writers trying to make Brienne into some sort of a Girl power trope of the series?

 

She beats:

Loras (who is great at jousting, but not so much in real fights)

Jaime (who was bound, tired and hungry)

Sandor (poisoned, exhausted)

 

No, my masculinity is not threatened. But man... that kick in the ovaries and headbutt was nasty. One would expect it would knock her out cold..

[Mr.House]

So, are the writers trying to make Brienne into some sort of a Girl power trope of the series?

 

She beats:

Loras (who is great at jousting, but not so much in real fights)

Jaime (who was bound, tired and hungry)

Sandor (poisoned, exhausted)

 

No, my masculinity is not threatened. But man... that kick in the ovaries and headbutt was nasty. One would expect it would knock her out cold..

To be fair, in the books, Jaime did say she was as strong as Gregor and was impressed by her strength. She's one of the best "swordsman" in Westeros.

[Fast Jimmy]

To be fair, in the books, Jaime did say she was as strong as Gregor and was impressed by her strength. She's one of the best "swordsman" in Westeros.

She can't be the best swordsman in Westeros...

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

She can't be the best swordsman in Westeros...

Jamie's blonde too, though.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jamie's blonde too, though.

Well, I think the analogy is getting out of HAND now, don't you think?

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Well, I think the analogy is getting out of HAND now, don't you think?

Jamie would clap at that joke, but, well, you know.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jamie would clap at that joke, but, well, you know.

He'd have to settle for patting me on the back?

[TheChris92]

Think I'll write a longer review for this Season Finale later -- But to sum up. It was disappointing. The seemingly lack of motivation in Tyrion's escape by vastly changing the dialogue exchanges and feelings between him, Jaime & Tywin. Not even a mention of Tysha at all, not to mention how it felt rather forced within 3 minutes of it happening. As that wasn't enough I wasn't a big fan of how Brienne conviniently showed up to off The Hound, only for Arya to slip away anyway.

Otherwise, as a television drama and not a faithful adaptation, it did its job well in that regard.

[Fast Jimmy]

Think I'll write a longer review for this Season Finale later -- But to sum up. It was disappointing. The seemingly lack of motivation in Tyrion's escape by vastly changing the dialogue exchanges and feelings between him, Jaime & Tywin. Not even a mention of Tysha at all, not to mention how it felt rather forced within 3 minutes of it happening. As that wasn't enough I wasn't a big fan of how Brienne conviniently showed up to off The Hound, only for Arya to slip away anyway.
Otherwise, as a television drama and not a faithful adaptation, it did its job well in that regard.

Although I agree about Tyrion and disagree about Brienne, I'm still counting down the days until Spring 2015.

[TheChris92]

I preferred the concept of her not finding her like in the books, and instead meeting Lady Stoneheart, another character I felt was important to implement, given how her appearance only amplifies the atrocity that is the Red Wedding --  I ultimately feel that makes more sense in the context of how the books wants to portray a more realistic approac on modern fantasy or at the very least -- An approach that preaches about nothing has a happy ever after in traditional fashion to that of old fairy tales at least. Although Arya didn't go with Brienne, the way it was edited and put together in this episode felt jarring and clumsy, on par with fanfiction to be frank. Like an old-relative showing up after years of no-contact to drink all the Fanta then immediately leave. 

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Think I'll write a longer review for this Season Finale later -- But to sum up. It was disappointing. The seemingly lack of motivation in Tyrion's escape by vastly changing the dialogue exchanges and feelings between him, Jaime & Tywin. Not even a mention of Tysha at all, not to mention how it felt rather forced within 3 minutes of it happening. As that wasn't enough I wasn't a big fan of how Brienne conviniently showed up to off The Hound, only for Arya to slip away anyway.

Otherwise, as a television drama and not a faithful adaptation, it did its job well in that regard.

Brienne fighting and beating the Hound is much more impactful than the story in the books, because it sets Arya's resolve- not only is it possible for her to be a warrior, but it's possible for a woman to be a better warrior than the Hound. It makes more sense for what comes next.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

I preferred the concept of her not finding her like in the books, and instead meeting Lady Stoneheart, another character I felt was important to implement, given how her appearance only amplifies the atrocity that is the Red Wedding --  I ultimately feel that makes more sense in the context of how the books wants to portray a more realistic approac on modern fantasy or at the very least -- An approach that preaches about nothing has a happy ever after in traditional fashion to that of old fairy tales at least. Although Arya didn't go with Brienne, the way it was edited and put together in this episode felt jarring and clumsy, on par with fanfiction to be frank. Like an old-relative showing up after years of no-contact to drink all the Fanta then immediately leave. 

I liked it. What reason would Arya have to go with Brienne? A Knight with a sword with a lion on the pommel and a squire in Lannister colors isn't someone she'd ever go with willingly. The other developments are likely to happen next season.