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[DrBlingzle]

You know what pissed me off the most of that duel? The fact that Gregor apperantly isn't that much in pain in the end. I bet HBO is gonna retcon it and keep him alive for another season because reasons.

So... hard... to... resist... giving... spoilers...

[KingTony]

You know what pissed me off the most of that duel? The fact that Gregor apperantly isn't that much in pain in the end. I bet HBO is gonna retcon it and keep him alive for another season because reasons.

Whether or not Clegaine survives the Viper's poison is easily the thing I'm most tempted to spoil myself on by asking a book person.

[SNascimento]

Jesus Christ this thread is like the DAI forums ! 

[Sylvianus]

They really have to stop thinking that way about characters in game of throne for the serie tv : they must be all badass.

 

Sansa has a very good character development in the books, ( like Jaime Lannister ) she slowly learns and slowly change, there was no need to do what they did just to show how she can become badass too. Seriously, what she did wasn't badass, it was stupid. The game was badly played unlike what the developpers  wanted to make think people watching. 

 

THE THRONE AND ALL THE LANNISTER, AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TOO SEE WHERE IS HIDDEN THE WIFE OF THE TRAITOR TYRION, suspected of murder too on the king Joffrey, everyone is looking for her but,hey, you know what ? I'm gonna cry to the world that I'M NOT ELAYNE, I'M SANSA STARK, DAUGTHER OF THE TRAITOR EDDARD STARK AND SISTER OF THE OTHER TRAITOR ROBB. 

 

Geez ! Now, I leave it at that, there are just no words to describe how stupid this is. Yeah, I'm gonna keep my lovely Sansa from the books and that's it.

 

 

[Steelcan]

Whether or not Clegaine survives the Viper's poison is easily the thing I'm most tempted to spoil myself on by asking a book person.

its more complicated than that

[KingTony]

its more complicated than that

F*ck, I knew he would become a super powered zombie.

[Volourn]

"That was breaking immersion because that was stupid as hell, there's absolutely no good reasons to reveal her name ! I just can't there. "

 

"THE THRONE AND ALL THE LANNISTER, AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TOO SEE WHERE IS HIDDEN THE WIFE OF THE TRAITOR TYRION, suspected of murder too on the king Joffrey, everyone is looking for her but,hey, you know what ? I'm gonna cry to the world that I'M NOT ELAYNE, I'M SANSA STARK, DAUGTHER OF THE TRAITOR EDDARD STARK AND SISTER OF THE OTHER TRAITOR ROBB."

 

\You do realize the people she revealed herself too are more loyalt to the Starks than the Crown right? They aren't simply gonna turn her over to the Lannisters for giggles.

 

 

." Yeah, I'm gonna keep my lovely Sansa from the books and that's it."

 

She's great on the tv show as well. Certainly better than being a lame 11 year old desired by all including her 'half brother'.

 

R00fles!

[Sylvianus]

"That was breaking immersion because that was stupid as hell, there's absolutely no good reasons to reveal her name ! I just can't there. "

 

"THE THRONE AND ALL THE LANNISTER, AND EVERYONE IS TRYING TOO SEE WHERE IS HIDDEN THE WIFE OF THE TRAITOR TYRION, suspected of murder too on the king Joffrey, everyone is looking for her but,hey, you know what ? I'm gonna cry to the world that I'M NOT ELAYNE, I'M SANSA STARK, DAUGTHER OF THE TRAITOR EDDARD STARK AND SISTER OF THE OTHER TRAITOR ROBB."

 

\You do realize the people she revealed herself too are more loyalt to the Starks than the Crown right? They aren't simply gonna turn her over to the Lannisters for giggles.

 

 

." Yeah, I'm gonna keep my lovely Sansa from the books and that's it."

 

She's great on the tv show as well. Certainly better than being a lame 11 year old desired by all including her 'half brother'.

 

R00fles!

 

Really ? Who is loyal to the Stark exactly ? Did you even read the books ? 

 

Lysa is dead, Winterfell has fallen, the Lannisters are considered as the current winners, all the legetimate stark are supposed to be dead,  the iron pirates control half of the North, Sansa is without any protection except from Baelish and her hidden identity. ( which is her best protection in the books ) Nobody is loyal to the Stark, those who ask her some questions are mostly ambitious nobles who'd rather not see Peter Balish as the protector of the Val.

 

The point anyway it that in her situation, she could trust nobody. And why would they'd be loyal to a worthless child that had nothing to do with Lysa or Lord Robert or The Val. Winterfell meant nothing to them and they aren't going to play the the game to claim the North. So ? Why would they hide this truth to the Lannister and the throne ? Why would you consider totally safe revealing like that your identity without even knowing them  first ?

 

Jut because she is named Sansa Stark ? Lol, no that's too funny. If Peter Baelish insists in the book that she must NOT reveal her identity to anyone that's because he is too aware what could happen. And Sansa too. 

 

And really if I need to point out all what could happen with such a ridiculous mistake, then I can't do anything for you, you clearly can't grap the basics of human appetite and human treachery. With such examples as Bolton or Frey, or many other folks, it should have been clear. I just can't believe actually that I had to write this post, that was just obvious to me. 

 

As for the lame child, she is actually 13 years old at this moment and not 11, and yeah, she is actually a child, ( LOL, really ? What did you expect ? ) that's why what she is in the book is actually very good and not at all lame to me, much more realistic, which make her look better than what has been showed lately. ( It was good before that scene though ) 

[MisterJB]

I don't disagree on principle with what you are saying but you forget that, in the very books, Petyr fully intends to reveal Sansa's heritage and to have the armies of the Vale reclaim Winterfell and the North...as soon as she has married a strong heir to the Eyrie that all the Vale loves.

[Sylvianus]

Oh, I didn't forget. Sansa is indeed very precious ( for those who are able to see it, ) and Lord Baelish has probably smart plans, but considering her current situation at this moment, there was no good reasons to do what she did alone in the show. It's just that it didn't make sense that she didn't obey to Lord Baelish , ( revealing her name to people she doesn't even know ), as it happened in the book. Sansa has no friends in the Eyrie, no one could protect her better than hiding her identity until new elements that could be good for her. Unlike littlefinger, the nobles hardly care about the Stark or the north. The Stark are probably seen almost everywhere in the South as dead, losers, or traitors. 

 

Sansa is only 13 years old, her situation is precarious, she has to listen to the cunning man, and to learn at his side. She was very aware that she couldn't trust anyone after what she suffered in the capital and after what happened with Joffrey. No need to play the " strong independent woman that doesn't listen to her protector ", at least not right now. 

 

She might not be a badass female character but she never was meant to be badass anyway, so not sure what happened in the minds of the producers, why they couldn't stay true to the character in the book. They couldn't be satisfied with Aria, Danaerys or someone else that could show its strenght lol. 

[Sylvianus]

* snip *

 

 

I totally understand that for a show tv, you have to do things differently from a book for pratical reasons. Danaerys for example appears to be more " badass " in the show tv than in the books for example, but at least it stayed true to what she was basically. 

 

If for Sansa, they wanted to show how she will eventually go from pawn to player, how about just showing how she is a good actress when she lies ? That would have been good and fine instead of this wtf confession that makes no sense. 

[MisterJB]

Sansa doesn't bother me as much as this Littlefinger does.

Just compare that scene to the one in the book. The lords had thousands of men ready to storm the Eyrie, Petyr had a few dozen loyal one and yet, he was in complete control of the situation and managed it to make it work so much in his favour that he convinced the lords to allow him to be the regent and even won the loyalty of one of them.

In the show, he is completely at Sansa's mercy. He didn't even bother to tell her what to say when she would be called for. That is the most basic tactic of all.

[MisterJB]

 

"A Dance with Dragons" all up in this b*tch.

I'm going to take a guess here and say Ellaria is going to take Arianne's role.

[B.A. Broska]

I think Jon Snow is going to be the final person in the series to end up on the Iron Throne.

 

Currently I am not certain Snow will even make it into Winds of Winter let alone to the Iron Throne.

[B.A. Broska]

I disliked how Tyrion's escape played out too. Especially after his awesome trial. That scene in GoT dropkicked the book version into another dimension.

 

How so?

 

Spoiler

the omission of Tysha? Or Tywin not evacuating his bowels as he dies?

[Sylvianus]

Sansa doesn't bother me as much as this Littlefinger does.

Just compare that scene to the one in the book. The lords had thousands of men ready to storm the Eyrie, Petyr had a few dozen loyal one and yet, he was in complete control of the situation and managed it to make it work so much in his favour that he convinced the lords to allow him to be the regent and even won the loyalty of one of them.

In the show, he is completely at Sansa's mercy. He didn't even bother to tell her what to say when she would be called for. That is the most basic tactic of all.

 

Very true. Actually, it bothered me a lot too, lol. That's maybe why I felt that scene was breaking immersion for me, because it was just too much in a few minutes. Both Sansa and Petyr aren't true to what they are in the books. Hated how Baelish looked so miserable while it was totally the opposite actually. They wanted Sansa to have all the glorious moment apparently. Really they have totally changed the spirit and the meaning of what happened in the book. 

 

It's like the show tv isn't going to follow anymore the books while slightly doing things in its way, it's now taking its own direction, its own path ( I have no idea if they know where it leads  because I feel it's kinda dangerous to kill characters who are actually still alive ), even if it totally contradicts the books. 

[Seagloom]

How so?

 

Spoiler

the omission of Tysha? Or Tywin not evacuating his bowels as he dies?

 

Spoiler

The former. The latter with Tyrion's comment on said evacuation is amusing as far as callbacks go but largely irrelevant. I felt that without Tysha he had no realistic motivation to detour into Tywin's bedroom. Tyrion knew Tywin's betrayal to try him for murder was truly about manipulating Jaime. He also knew Tywin never loved him. That was not new information, and he showed no signs on wanting closure with Tywin beforehand. He just wanted to get the hell out of dodge. What drove him to seek Tywin out was Jaime's confession. It was an act fueled by pure rage. Not a calculated assassination attempt; nor a desire to clear the air. Tyrion was so furious he even lied to emotionally eviscerate Jaime before departing. GoT's handling of this scene was essentially effect without cause.

 

It also has the side effect of making Varys's role in these events seem less calculated than they were. Instead of coming across as a mastermind the way he does when he kills Kevan later, it makes him look like a bumbling fool who is reacting to an unexpected change in circumstances. Much like how Littlefinger came across in the scenes being discussed above.

 

It was the mirror opposite of Tyrion's trial which I thought was not only faithful to the source material, but also vastly superior to it in emotional impact and dialogue.

[Il Divo]

You know what pissed me off the most of that duel? The fact that Gregor apperantly isn't that much in pain in the end. I bet HBO is gonna retcon it and keep him alive for another season because reasons.

 

It's frustrating too, given that in the books, it's done in reverse where Gregor is shown in complete agony while Oberyn's death is downplayed. 

[B.A. Broska]

Spoiler

The former. The latter with Tyrion's comment on said evacuation is amusing as far as callbacks go but largely irrelevant. I felt that without Tysha he had no realistic motivation to detour into Tywin's bedroom. Tyrion knew Tywin's betrayal to try him for murder was truly about manipulating Jaime. He also knew Tywin never loved him. That was not new information, and he showed no signs on wanting closure with Tywin beforehand. He just wanted to get the hell out of dodge. What drove him to seek Tywin out was Jaime's confession. It was an act fueled by pure rage. Not a calculated assassination attempt; nor a desire to clear the air. Tyrion was so furious he even lied to emotionally eviscerate Jaime before departing. GoT's handling of this scene was essentially effect without cause.

 

It also has the side effect of making Varys's role in these events seem less calculated than they were. Instead of coming across as a mastermind the way he does when he kills Kevan later, it makes him look like a bumbling fool who is reacting to an unexpected change in circumstances. Much like how Littlefinger came across in the scenes being discussed above.

 

It was the mirror opposite of Tyrion's trial which I thought was not only faithful to the source material, but also vastly superior to it in emotional impact and dialogue.

 

Spoiler

I just assumed Tyrion was out for blood and with everything that had happened to him and everything he had endured over the years who could blame him? Being set up for a murder he did not commit, betrayed and humiliated by the woman he loved and sentenced to die and all of this was orchestrated by his father, I am pretty sure you would be harboring some strong feelings of resentment towards your father if he did this to you as well, finding Shae in his father's bed and being forced to murder her with his own hands would not have helped either.

 

As for the omission of Tysha personally I did not really miss it as I felt having Shae fill the role was the better option due to actually being able to see their relationship grow and unfold over the course of the series rather than through flashbacks, also expanding on and exploring Tyrion's relationship with Shae and Bronn had the benefit of lending their future scenes (Bronns goodbye and Shae's testimony and death) more impact.

 

As for Varys looking like a bumbling fool I am not sure why you got that impression? Even the best laid plans can go awry and personally I thought it made Varys look more human and sympathetic than just the cold calculating eggman he is in the books, there has to be some contrast between him and Littlefinger. Also I do have to wonder what you mean by "It also has the side effect of making Varys's role in these events seem less calculated than they were"? Implying that Varys was expecting Tyrion to murder Tywin? To be honest I had not really considered that (if that is indeed what you are getting at?) and while it is interesting I thought the only reason Varys helped Tyrion escape in the book is because Jamie forced him at knife point?

[Milan92]

Currently I am not certain Snow will even make it into Winds of Winter let alone to the Iron Throne.

 

I actually think he'll end up marrying Dany. Wasn't there this theory that he's the son of Rheagar and Lyanna?

[B.A. Broska]

I actually think he'll end up marrying Dany. Wasn't there this theory that he's the son of Rheagar and Lyanna?

 

If you have not read the books don't click the spoiler tag.

 

Spoiler

There is also the theory he is kind of dead with the multiple stab wounds and all, personally I am not sure what to think this as we all know G.R.R. Martin loves to kill off major characters, however since his "death" happens near the end of the book and is left as kind of a cliffhanger I suppose there is also the chance that this could be setting up the surprise plot twist that he isn't actually dead or Melisandre uses her power to resurrect him, who knows?

[Seagloom]

Spoiler

I just assumed Tyrion was out for blood and with everything that had happened to him and everything he had endured over the years who could blame him? Being set up for a murder he did not commit, betrayed and humiliated by the woman he loved and sentenced to die and all of this was orchestrated by his father, I am pretty sure you would be harboring some strong feelings of resentment towards your father if he did this to you as well, finding Shae in his father's bed and being forced to murder her with his own hands would not have helped either.

 

As for the omission of Tysha personally I did not really miss it as I felt having Shae fill the role was the better option due to actually being able to see their relationship grow and unfold over the course of the series rather than through flashbacks, also expanding on and exploring Tyrion's relationship with Shae and Bronn had the benefit of lending their future scenes (Bronns goodbye and Shae's testimony and death) more impact.

 

As for Varys looking like a bumbling fool I am not sure why you got that impression? Even the best laid plans can go awry and personally I thought it made Varys look more human and sympathetic than just the cold calculating eggman he is in the books, there has to be some contrast between him and Littlefinger. Also I do have to wonder what you mean by "It also has the side effect of making Varys's role in these events seem less calculated than they were"? Implying that Varys was expecting Tyrion to murder Tywin? To be honest I had not really considered that (if that is indeed what you are getting at?) and while it is interesting I thought the only reason Varys helped Tyrion escape in the book is because Jamie forced him at knife point?

 

Spoiler

I think this is one area where having read the novels heavily biases my opinion. All of what you listed occurred in the books. None of that was enough to push Tyrion over the edge until Jaime brings up the truth of what happened with Tysha. His development went along a near identical path on GoT save for a few minor changes along the way. It was the realization that his father's hatred ran so deep, and the brother he loved and trusted implicitly betrayed him, that pushed his buttons. The rest hurt him, but he seemed content to let it slide as more political BS. Prior to that revelation I think he had it out for Cersei more than Tywin.

 

Maybe I could accept Tysha's omission in GoT had they not made a point of referencing it in season one. Why bring it up at all just to ignore it later? Had they left it out to begin with it would have at least been internally consistent. Instead it comes across as sloppy writing.

 

In the books Varys was not too subtly encouraging Tyrion without outright stating 'please kill Tywin and destabilize the Realm for me'. When Tyrion notices a way leading into The Tower of the Hand, Varys tries to discourage Tyrion from finding Tywin while simultaneously explaining precisely where he can be found. The whole thing was a glorified setup. I doubt Jaime could have done anything to Varys seeing as he was nowhere near competent with his left hand.

 

Waaay later when Varys kills Kevan, he pretty much reveals point blank that his plan was to make things as unstable as possible. He clearly expected Cersei to ruin everything and feared Kevan was turning things around. Varys has been orchestrating events ever since the Targaryens fell. He is playing a long game alongside Littlefinger. Their rivalry is hardly coincidental. The two of them are on a whole other level compared to everyone else. Which is why I would not be remotely shocked if Littlefinger sits the throne at the end, for however brief a period that ends up being.

 

They humanize certain characters on GoT a bit, but IMO it is one thing to humanize a character and quite another to make them seem incompetent.

[Steelcan]

 

"A Dance with Dragons" all up in this b*tch.

I'm going to take a guess here and say Ellaria is going to take Arianne's role.

;_;

[Steelcan]

 

 Nobody is loyal to the Stark

"The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done. My son is home"