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[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Without Tywin's competence or pragmatism. 
 
If anyone would have made a good ruler, it was Tywin. Hell, he basically was the ruler of Westeros for years.

Word of God.

/argument

[Dermain]

Without Tywin's competence or pragmatism. 

 

If anyone would have made a good ruler, it was Tywin. Hell, he basically was the ruler of Westeros for years. 

 

I can't believe I'm agreeing with God on this matter.

 

Competence is always better than idealism. 

[God]

"But yes, is slavery really all that bad? There is a certain order to not having freedom. A freedom from freedom. Sure slavery in many ways stifles the individual, but it does show you your place in the world, and it allows you to fulfill a purpose."

 

Yes, yes it is really that bad. I bet you wouldn't volunteer to be a slave. A slave, by defintion, isn't considered human. Just a tool. Just property. That is evil.

 

No, no it is really not that bad. I wouldn't, but that's because I have far greater use and power than a slave. 

 

By definition, you're correct. That isn't evil however. What is evil is a distinct lack of definition and utility for someone or something that has a potential usage vector and is being squandered due to the idea that some abstract and unattainable good is somehow better than physical, tangible produce. As well, is it really better to be a free idiot with nothing in life than to be a tool that is taken care of and maintained? As I said, most slaves are not really treated all that terribly, mainly because they are just that: tools. And a tool only works when it's not broken and taken care of. 

[God]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with God on this matter.

 

Competence is always better than idealism. 

 

With Tywin gone, Stannis is the next best thing, though granted, I was always in the Stannis camp to begin with. 

 

Stannis is much more practical and level-headed than people give him credit for. He is the only surviving king from the War of the 5 Kings for a reason. He is also the only King that puts the needs of the realm above his own wants. He doesn't claim Kingship because he wants it. He claims it because its his duty. Which is why he goes to the Wall. It's his duty to protect the realm from the threat of the Wildlings, and from the threat of the Others.

[God]

I think it was more about the hundred and fifty plus children those men crucified simply to taunt her.

Crucifixion is horrendous way to die and she overreacted but I can understand how she arrived there.

I don't have the stomach for that level of human suffering.

 

As Steelcan said, she didn't even bother to discriminate if people were guilty or not. She just nailed them to a crucifix and let them die, guilt be damned.

 

She's a very petulant and impulsive ruler. She refuses to actually settle things lawfully, only concluding a matter on a whim and based on her judgement right then and there, and basing that judgement on how she feels.

 

How awesome would it be if a judge decided you were guilty solely on hearing one side of the story from someone else based on nothing more than the judge's emotional outrage? Because that's what you get with Dany. 

 

She refuses to have justice for the daughter of a Meereenese noble whose daughter was raped by some of the freed slaves, yet she demands blood when her favorite singing girl is murdered by the Sons of the Harpy.

 

To top it all off, she then reneges on her word and marries a local noble (who may or may not actually be one of the leaders of the resistance against her regime) for the sake of peace, while promising to not disrupt the slave trade further (with evidence that she does not intend to uphold this) to keep Meereen free.

[God]

MY QUEEN

 

If all else fails, I can get behind this. 

 

She's actually a semi-decent person with intelligence, and someone who knows how to rule pulling her strings (for the time being).

[Alan Rickman]

If all else fails, I can get behind this. 

 

She's actually a semi-decent person with intelligence, and someone who knows how to rule pulling her strings (for the time being).

 

You're forgetting the most important part: she's really, really attractive.

[God]

As everyone else. Nothing is paid by "flowers and peace". There has to be blood.

None of these so called rulers were any better than Dany.

 

Except for all of them. 

 

I'd take Balon ****** Greyjoy over Daenerys Targaryen. 

 

It's sad. The Targs used to be so great. And this is what they've been reduced to. Rhaegar could have been a good king. But Viserys or Daenerys? No chance.

 

Daenerys is in the same pot as Joff and Ramsay Bolton. She's just as bad as them.

 

Though if R+L=J, We may have another Targaryen who is actually good. 

 

Granted, the Targs have no legal claim to the throne any longer. An ancestral one perhaps, but not a legal one. Stannis is the rightful heir, and he has proven to be a stronger ruler than most others.

 

[God]

You're forgetting the most important part: she's really, really attractive.

 

Of course; It's Natalie Dormer!

 

Queen of the weird, yet really hot faces.

[Volourn]

"If anyone would have made a good ruler, it was Tywin. Hell, he basically was the ruler of Westeros for years."

 

The guy was killed on the toilet. That is not a good leader. If your won children loath you because you can't even elad them how cna you be exopected to elad anyone? I like Tywin but EPIC FAIL should be tattooed on his forehead.

 

 

"Granted, the Targs have no legal claim to the throne any longer. An ancestral one perhaps, but not a legal one. Stannis is the rightful heir, and he has proven to be a stronger ruler than most others."

\

\I love how Stannis fanboys  go straight to 'legal claim'. His claim is no stronger than anybody else's. The winner will sit on the throne.. until they become the next loser. Power gets you the throne not `'legalities'. 'Blood' just gets you in the door.

 

I agree Marg would make a solid queen though I don't know if she is bloothirsty enough for you guys whoa re so  pro slavery and mass murder. That's not really her style.

[DrBlingzle]

While I'm certainly not a fan of Daenerys, I think she does get a lot of undeserved ****. She is only 16, I'd like to see the people complaining about her try and do better at her age.

 

I know I'd probably get myself killed in around 2 days.

[Volourn]

 They had the power to back it up. That's why Viscerys was never king. He didn't have the power. It's why his father lost the throne - he lost power. It's why Dany has tot ake the time to gain power because she just can't waltz into Westeros and bring legal dcouments to take it back (like you could in modern times  for property). It's why Stannis isn't king now- he doesn't have power to back up his claim hence his trip to the north which is to get more power. He couldn't beat his brother on the field so he used the power of blood magic to do it.

 

Power is what rules Westeros.

[DrBlingzle]

Power is what rules Westeros.

Gotta love those shadows on a wall.

[FraQ]

Gotta love those shadows on a wall.

 

Chaos is a ladder... Whatever that means. @.@

 

He killed Ros!

 

Damn him!

[God]

"If anyone would have made a good ruler, it was Tywin. Hell, he basically was the ruler of Westeros for years."

 

The guy was killed on the toilet. That is not a good leader. If your won children loath you because you can't even elad them how cna you be exopected to elad anyone? I like Tywin but EPIC FAIL should be tattooed on his forehead.

 

 

 

Circumstances of death do not equate leadership capability at all. There was a Captain who was killed by a mortar while walking to what passed for the PX in the Korangal Valley back in 2007. He was a damned fine officer. And his leadership skills were in no way reflected by the manner of his death. 

 

It's the same with Tywin. He may be a terrible father, but he is a tremendously effective ruler. And your premise is untrue. Tywin may not have tried to be an effective father, but his leadership and rule is widely regarded as being one of the best. He is considered the best Hand of the King in recent memory.

 

Your statement is false. It has no substance. And your spelling is atrocious.

[Volourn]

 It's who killed him that is an issue.  If your own child kills you (and that child isn't completely insane) it's your parenting - which is about leadership - failed. He was a horrible Hand of the Kind. Did he not betray the king he was Hand of? Sorry, Tywin is a skilled leader but he's far from perfect. I'd say he was 2nd best. Jon Arryn was better.

[God]

 It's who killed him that is an issue.  If your own child kills you (and that child isn't completely insane) it's your parenting - which is about leadership - failed. He was a horrible Hand of the Kind. Did he not betray the king he was Hand of? Sorry, Tywin is a skilled leader but he's far from perfect. I'd say he was 2nd best. Jon Arryn was better.

 

Yes, he did. Jon Arryn also betrayed his king as well. If that's the card you want to play. It's hypocrisy and a double standard on your part, and invalidates your argument. 

 

Parenting is not about leadership. Parenting is about parenting. Tywin was a terrible father. He was an effective leader and ruler. And even if that's the case, you're using one example, one failure, to justify condemning Tywin as a leader. And calling another person, who we have little information on as a hand, as a better one than Tywin. 

 

Listen closely: Jon Arryn was not a better hand because you don't like Tywin. Jon Arryn was not a better hand because you like him better. Personal feelings do not equate into an effective opinion or stance.

 

Then you're turning your argument around to say that Tywin was a good leader. You have no consistency to your argument. Your posts have no credibility. What feedback you have is now irrelevant and ineffectual. There's no merit behind it. You've failed at a discussion. 

[Steelcan]

technically Dany doesn't even have a claim on the throne other than being a Targaryne member, female claimants were always passed up no matter their succession order or how favored.

 

making Viserys and fAegon the only legitimate Targaryens who can claim the throne, Stannis as well since Robert sat it and left no trueborn children

[God]

technically Dany doesn't even have a claim on the throne other than being a Targaryne member, female claimants were always passed up no matter their succession order or how favored.

 

making Viserys and fAegon the only legitimate Targaryens who can claim the throne, Stannis as well since Robert sat it and left no trueborn children

 

True. Stannis is 1/4 Targaryen anyway. 

 

If fAegon is what I think he is, Stannis, even going by the old system, is still the most legitimate. 

 

Unless Rhaegar married Lyanna Stark (which is possible). In which case, Jon Snow is the true 'heir', as it were.

[Han Shot First]

Spoiler

Aegon is probably the Mummer's dragon. My bet is that he is Illyrio's son by Serra, the Lysene woman he wed. Aegon's Targaryen appearance is probably due to Lysene ancestry, since Lys was settled by Valyria and many of the people have partial Valyrian ancestry. White-blonde hair and purple eyes are not uncommon there. Or Serra could turn out to be a Blackfyre descendant. Tyrion sees a cameo of Serra IIRC, and her physical description could pass for Valyrian.

 

In any case is Aegon even making the series? I had heard a rumor that he was cut. 

[Seraphim24]

It's the same with Tywin. He may be a terrible father, but he is a tremendously effective ruler. And your premise is untrue. Tywin may not have tried to be an effective father, but his leadership and rule is widely regarded as being one of the best. He is considered the best Hand of the King in recent memory.

 

Your statement is false. It has no substance. And your spelling is atrocious.

 

Yay for Tywin! I've been becoming a bigger and bigger fan over time I noticed.

 

[Malanek]

With Tywin gone, Stannis is the next best thing, though granted, I was always in the Stannis camp to begin with. 

 

Stannis is much more practical and level-headed than people give him credit for. He is the only surviving king from the War of the 5 Kings for a reason. He is also the only King that puts the needs of the realm above his own wants. He doesn't claim Kingship because he wants it. He claims it because its his duty. Which is why he goes to the Wall. It's his duty to protect the realm from the threat of the Wildlings, and from the threat of the Others.

Lol, Stannis isn't practical. Quite the opposite he is exceedingly inflexible expecting everyone to adhere to his own moral standard. When he was on the council he wanted to outlaw prostitution despite the economic absurdity of it and the hypocrisy given what he gets up to with Melesandre. He is completely unprepared to negotiate, it's his way or he will fight you. He is easily manipulated into believing he is Azor Ahai (which he is almost certainly not) even to the extent of conspiring to kill his brother using dark magic. He knew about Joffery's (and Myrcella and Tommen's) parentage and could probably have prevented the war but instead he fled to Dragonstone. He likely would have sacrificed Edric Storm if Davos hadn't smuggled him away. Renly had the right of it. Stannis would make a terrible king.

 

He is an interesting character. There are shreds of decency in him, especially his love for his daughter and of Davos, which try and push through the thick layer of enthrallment Melisandre has placed over him. In the story he is basically battling to become his own person again but he is anything but practical.