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[dreamgazer]

Here's the behind-the-scenes video. The Shireen discussion is at the very beginning, and it unequivocally sounds like this is Martin's plan:

Spoiler

[God]

I'd sooner just set myself on fire, that's for damn sure. 

 

Maybe. 

 

I put my duty above my family. Every time.

[KaiserShep]

I couldn't. F*ck it. 

 

Granted, there's always some sort of extraordinary circumstances that I couldn't possibly predict, but they'd have to be pretty g*ddamn extraordinary. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't see what you're getting at here.

The Battle for Winterfell will be decided long before Stannis next has the opportunity to see Shireen. If victorious he has no need to burn her (at least for a time). If defeated he will be dead, yet in that event the orders given to Ser Justin Massey are to use his newly acquired sellsword army to put Shireen on the iron throne.

 

It's possible Melisandre could sacrifice her up at Castle Black, but if that were to occur I doubt Stannis would have ordered it. It would seem rather out of character for him to write a letter saying "Dear Mel - Burn my only daughter to death to clear up the weather" especially after he had just previously rejected the advice to burn innocent individuals while bogged down in the poor weather.

 

It's possible he could burn Shireen later but it would involve a scenario other than Stannis' army being stuck in the snow outside of Winterfell.

[God]

I figure I'm going to get burned if I keep promoting this. 

[Iakus]

I don't see what you're getting at here.

As of the last book Stannis and Shireen are nowhere near each other, making sacrificing her problematic.

Though given the size of each book I suppose there's plenty of time to bring them back together.

But if characters are gonna start holding jumping off slippery slopes and start degenerating into cariactures of themselves in the books too, we'll, why bother continuing with those as well?

[Il Divo]

I figure I'm going to get burned if I keep promoting this. 

 

I see we're going with the dark humor today, eh? 

[God]

I couldn't. F*ck it. 

 

Granted, there's always some sort of extraordinary circumstances that I couldn't possibly predict, but they'd have to be pretty g*ddamn extraordinary. 

 

Fair enough. I don't hold it against you.

 

I mean, are people really surprised at my opinion? I'm the guy who thinks Sanctuary in ME3 was a valid idea (if in concept rather than practice).

[AlanC9]

The Battle for Winterfell would be decided long before Stannis next has the opportunity to see Shireen. If victorious he has no need to burn (at least for a time). If defeated he is dead. It's possible Melisandre could sacrifice her up at Castle Black, but if that were to occur I doubt Stannis would have ordered it. It would seem rather out of character for him to write a letter saying "Dear Mel - Please burn my only daughter to death to clear up the weather" especially after he rejects the advice to burn innocent individuals while trapped in the snow.

I don't see what this hypothetical has do do with my post.

[KaiserShep]

Fair enough. I don't hold it against you.

 

I mean, are people really surprised at my opinion? I'm the guy who thinks Sanctuary in ME3 was a valid idea (if in concept rather than practice).

 

Only Sanctuary only came about because of an extraordinary circumstance. Before that, Cerberus was just testing on the weird wilds of the galaxy in remote locations, and even abandoned the rachni once they knew more about them. 

[God]

I couldn't trust a person that would. If a man could give up something that close for the sake of a cause, I would always watch my back. It gives a perspective on his judgement and decision making

 

It's one cause for another. Your family is as much a cause as another.

 

I'm not saying such a decision is to be made lightly. But I think duty to the realm is far more important than duty to family. 

 

Then again, I guarantee I had a much different upbringing than all of you. I grew up in a family where adherence to something greater than the family was the norm. Myself, my mother, and my father were all sworn to the military first, and the family second. For each of us, if it was for the right cause, it's a no brainer. No choice. We do what we need to do. 

 

For me, that oath will end on December 31, 2015. But it's still one I will beholden to for the remainder of the time and my life until that date arrives.

[God]

Only Sanctuary only came about because of an extraordinary circumstance. Before that, Cerberus was just testing on the weird wilds of the galaxy in remote locations, and even abandoned the rachni once they knew more about them. 

 

I would say that Stannis is in an extraordinary survival circumstance.

 

He has two other choices: Freeze, or starve. Nothing else.

 

In all honesty, what else was he supposed to do?

[Inquisitor Recon]

I don't see what this hypothetical has do do with my post.

What is not to understand? We do not know the conditions of Stannis hypothetically burning Shireen in the books. But if it involves the battle for Winterfell then Stannis is unlikely to be involved. It would be an action taken upon Melisande's own initiative.

[Rawgrim]

Here's the behind-the-scenes video. The Shireen discussion is at the very beginning, and it unequivocally sounds like this is Martin's plan:

Spoiler

 

I fail to see how this could be Martin's plan, though. Melisandre, Shireen and Selyse are nowhere near Stannis in the books now.

[KaiserShep]

Most of my family was in the military. My uncle went into the navy when he was 18, mainly because he wanted to travel the world, but also because he said it was a great way to meet lots of women around the world on the government's dime. 

[KaiserShep]

I would say that Stannis is in an extraordinary survival circumstance.

 

He has two other choices: Freeze, or starve. Nothing else.

 

In all honesty, what else was he supposed to do?

 

But simple survival is not the goal here. If it was, then returning to castle black would be another option, one that Davos did suggest to him. Nothing but his own stubbornness is really preventing him from retreating. 

[dreamgazer]

I fail to see how this could be Martin's plan, though. Melisandre, Shireen and Selyse are nowhere near Stannis in the books now.

That's something you'd have to ask Martin. Obviously the circumstances of the event itself would be different.

[God]

Most of my family was in the military. My uncle went into the navy when he was 18, mainly because he wanted to travel the world, but also because he said it was a great way to meet lots of women around the world on the government's dime. 

 

It is (and believe me, did I take advantage of both). But at the end of the day, that's not why I joined.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't see what this hypothetical has do do with my post.

He is saying if Shireen does get burned in the books, it's not by Stannis. I sort of took from the segment that Stannis is responsible in the books as well, but it's possible that he's not, and that they were just referring to Martin's plan to have Shireen burned in general as a plot point.

As for the ep, this was absolutely not a character assassination of show Stannis. This is who he is, and one scene with Shireen isn't going to change the show establishing both a willingness to kill family members and a belief in destiny that requires sacrificing the few. It was certainly portrayed as a difficult decision, but Stannis's MO for the series has been progressively contemplating and then crossing moral lines.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Speaking as someone who had only seen the show, I thought it was both very out of character for Stannis and totally obvious that it was going to happen. But I thought that was supposed to be the point or something? Is the scene from the Season 2 finale where Melisandre tells Stannis that he would become king by giving up everything he believed in, in the books? Because that scene pretty much spells out that even though there are lines that Stannis would not cross, he was still going to cross them to be king.

[God]

Returning to castle black. It's obviously far from ideal, but nothing but his own stubbornness is really preventing it. For all he knows, he could have set his daughter on fire and still succumb to the winter wonderland between his army and the Boltons. 

 

That's not an option. Stannis admits it. It's no longer possible at this point, even if he wanted to. 

 

Melisandre's magic and the Red God have been proven to work. Repeatedly. 

[Rawgrim]

That's something you'd have to ask Martin. Obviously the circumstances of the event itself would be different.

 

Melisandre probably kills Shireen to save Jon in the books, I guess. But it is still odd since Melisandre was told how to Resurrect people by Thoros in season 3. And that required zero sacrifice.

[Rawgrim]

Not sure what they gained from the sacrifice, either. Its not as if his army is suddenly going to get lots of food and the like.

[Malanek]

Here's the behind-the-scenes video. The Shireen discussion is at the very beginning, and it unequivocally sounds like this is Martin's plan:
 

I simply don't agree with that. So easy to get wires crossed.

 

George : And then Melisandre will burn Shireen in an attempt to advance Stannis's cause

D&D : Cool!!!

 

2 months later

 

D : We don't have the Manderlys or the Karstarks, nor the Freys nor Mance. HTF is Stannis going to take Winterfell? 

D : We could move Shireens burning up to this point.

D : And make Stannis complicit. SHOCK VALUE!!!

 

D&D have already altered Jaimes character in such a significant manner with small changes they are seemingly unaware of. I guess we will have to wait and see but I doubt it will go down like this in the books. Certainly not because Stannis is stuck in the snow and cold. It will probably be all Melisandre's idea.

 

 

edit : also lol at "Once Stannis makes a decision he never changes his mind". He just made a decision not to burn Shireen a couple of episodes ago.