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[Il Divo]

He is saying if Shireen does get burned in the books, it's not by Stannis. I sort of took from the segment that Stannis is responsible in the books as well, but it's possible that he's not, and that they were just referring to Martin's plan to have Shireen burned in general as a plot point.

As for the ep, this was absolutely not a character assassination of show Stannis. This is who he is, and one scene with Shireen isn't going to change the show establishing both a willingness to kill family members and a belief in destiny that requires sacrificing the few. It was certainly portrayed as a difficult decision, but Stannis's MO for the series has been progressively contemplating and then crossing moral lines.

 

That was my interpretation too. It's possible we don't know the full context of George's conversation with the creators, but just based on how they're describing the plot's lay out and their shock, I got the impression it is ultimately Stannis who makes the decision. 

[KaiserShep]

Not sure what they gained from the sacrifice, either. Its not as if his army is suddenly going to get lots of food and the like.

 

Yeah, this is something I'm unclear about as well. At the most I would expect something to conjure itself out of thin air and kill the Boltons and leave Winterfel ripe for the picking, but I don't see how that helps the troops, unless the magic is powerful enough to make the weather fairer and their appetites smaller.

[Rawgrim]

Stannis can't make this desicion at this point in the books though. And he is just about to attack the Boltons. I am guessing he wins that battle now, and somehow needs a sacrifice later. But he definately doesn't have time to make  decision about any sacrifice before the Winterfell battle.

[Malanek]

Melisandre probably kills Shireen to... 

You should probably spoiler hide that.

[Rawgrim]

Yeah, this is something I'm unclear about as well. At the most I would expect something to conjure itself out of thin air and kill the Boltons and leave Winterfel ripe for the picking, but I don't see how that helps the troops, unless the magic is powerful enough to make the weather fairer and their appetites smaller.

 

Yeah it just seemed odd. I am guessing a shadow baby might be what they are going for, but still. I can't see that helping the army much.

[CronoDragoon]

They better be shadow siege weapons, at this point. Open wide, Melisandre.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah, this is something I'm unclear about as well. At the most I would expect something to conjure itself out of thin air and kill the Boltons and leave Winterfel ripe for the picking, but I don't see how that helps the troops, unless the magic is powerful enough to make the weather fairer and their appetites smaller.

 

The promo for the next episode seems to the snow melting is what he gained. 

 

I never really understood the need to sacrifice people. The arbitrary distinction of having royal blood aside, we saw from the leeches and Gendry that only a small amount is needed to cause the death of somebody. Burning a victim alive means you can only make use of royal blood once. It might not be an instant win power, but with a potentially unlimited ability to conducted assassinations upon anyone he wants, eventually things should work out in his favor. 

[Rawgrim]

You should probably spoiler hide that.

 

Can't figure out how.

[dreamgazer]

I simply don't agree with that. So easy to get wires crossed.
 
George : And then Melisandre will burn Shireen in an attempt to advance Stannis's cause
D&D : Cool!!!

I sincerely doubt that's how the conversation about something as sensitive as future plot points in Martin's highly-anticipated books played out. Either way, it's clear where this idea stems from.

[Malanek]

That's not an option. Stannis admits it. It's no longer possible at this point, even if he wanted to. 

 

Melisandre's magic and the Red God have been proven to work. Repeatedly. 

 

No it hasn't.

 

She looks into the fires and has made mistakes. She saw Renly defeating Stannis at Kingslanding, but it was actually Ser Loras wearing Renly's armor.

 

She has given Stannis a magic sword that is supposed to be Lightbringer but it is almost certainly not.

 

She believes Stannis is Azor Ahai and she is almost certainly wrong.

 

Did she cause the deaths of the three kings with the leeches or rather saw their deaths in the flames and trick Stannis to win his trust? I think the latter.

 

There are big question marks over Melisandre.

[God]

Can't figure out how.

 

Spoiler

put spoiler in between [] and [/]

[Rawgrim]

The promo for the next episode seems to the snow melting is what he gained. 

 

I never really understood the need to sacrifice people. The arbitrary distinction of having royal blood aside, we saw from the leeches and Gendry that only a small amount is needed to cause the death of somebody. Burning a victim alive means you can only make use of royal blood once. It might not be an instant win power, but with a potentially unlimited ability to conducted assassinations upon anyone he wants, eventually things should work out in his favor. 

 

I think King's Blood actually means Targaryen blood. The Baratheons have some in them. I suspect Varys has too, given what happened to him.

[KaiserShep]

They better be shadow siege weapons, at this point. Open wide, Melisandre.

 

[labored screams]

 

"I…I can see a…beam?"

 

[12 hours later]

 

Stannis: You never cease to amaze me.

 

Melisandre: SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH [waddles away]

[Rawgrim]

Spoiler

put spoiler in between [] and [/]

 

Uhm what?

[Il Divo]

The promo for the next episode seems to the snow melting is what he gained. 

 

I never really understood the need to sacrifice people. The arbitrary distinction of having royal blood aside, we saw from the leeches and Gendry that only a small amount is needed to assassinate anyone. Burning someone alive means you can only make use of royal blood once. It might not be an instant win power, but with a potentially unlimited ability to assainate anyone he wants, eventually things should work out in his favor. 

 

Keep in mind: Melisandre points out to Stannis that the leech method is not known to work as well as an actual sacrifice (Balon for example is still alive). It's also been theorized (by some) that the leech method does not actually work at all and Melisandre essentially uses it to keep Stannis' support. 

 

In regard to the current situation: Stannis' army is completely immobilized and basically dying in the Winter, unable to reach Castle Black by his own admission. They don't really have all the time in the world, although I am curious what practical effect this has. 

[God]

No it hasn't.

 

She looks into the fires and has made mistakes. She saw Renly defeating Stannis at Kingslanding, but it was actually Ser Loras wearing Renly's armor.

 

She has given Stannis a magic sword that is supposed to be Lightbringer but it is almost certainly not.

 

She believes Stannis is Azor Ahai and she is almost certainly wrong.

 

Did she cause the deaths of the three kings with the leeches or rather saw their deaths in the flames and trick Stannis to win his trust? I think the latter.

 

There are big question marks over Melisandre.

 

She looked into the fires and saw a person wearing Renly's armor. It makes sense to imagine that the person wearing Renly's armor is... Renly.

 

She never proclaimed that Stannis' sword was either magic or Lightbringer.

 

This point is still unverified and a matter of opinion.

 

If that is the case, then why are you distrusting her looking into the visions? You just said she misinterpreted them. As well, Shadow Baby proves you wrong.

 

Along with Thoros of Myr's powers, this is a pretty clear indication that Mel is onto something. 

[AlanC9]

As of the last book Stannis and Shireen are nowhere near each other, making sacrificing her problematic.
Though given the size of each book I suppose there's plenty of time to bring them back together.
But if characters are gonna start holding jumping off slippery slopes and start degenerating into cariactures of themselves in the books too, we'll, why bother continuing with those as well?

So that particular situation didn't come up in the book. OK, sure. But that's got nothing to do with character. Book-Stannis hasn't been put in the situation that TV-Stannis was in. Yet. When he is, he'll handle it the same way TV-Stannis did. That's who Stannis is, who Stannis has always been.

[Malanek]

I sincerely doubt that's how the conversation about something as sensitive as future plot points in Martin's highly-anticipated books played out. Either way, it's clear where this idea stems from.

The idea of what though? That Shireen is burnt? Sure. That Stannis is complicit in burning her? I doubt it. Certainly not before the battle of winterfell. It will be what Rawgrim said above in my opinion but possibly unintentionally, trying to save Stannis in response to the pink letter.

[CronoDragoon]

There are big question marks over Melisandre.

Much less so in the show, especially from Stannis's perspective.

[Rawgrim]

Keep in mind: Melisandre points out to Stannis that the leech method is not known to work as well as an actual sacrifice (Balon for example is still alive). It's also been theorized (by some) that the leech method does not actually work at all and Melisandre essentially uses it to keep Stannis' support. 

 

In regard to the current situation: Stannis' army is completely immobilized and basically dying in the Winter, unable to reach Castle Black by his own admission. They don't really have all the time in the world, although I am curious what practical effect this has. 

 

And Castle Black is just a couple of days away, according to Davos.

[God]

Uhm what?

 

Spoiler

Like this [ -> spoiler -> ] See? [ -> / -> spoiler ->]

[Rawgrim]

Spoiler

Like this [ -> spoiler -> ] See? [ -> / -> spoiler ->]

 

I type that in with the post? Sorry, but I am completely green at internet stuff.

[Il Divo]

And Castle Black is just a couple of days away, according to Davos.

 

A couple days away with no food stores in the middle of Winter? Again, death, in a nut shell. Sure, Stannis wants to get rid of Davos to make all this easier, but the whole issue is that Shireen's death is a turning point, the last resort. 

 

If it was as simple as sitting tight and waiting for the Riders of Rohan to back him up, I'm sure Stannis would. But his army is fragmented as it is (he and Davos have a conversation about deserters earlier on) and nothing short of a miracle will save his troops at this point. 

[God]

I type that in with the post? Sorry, but I am completely green at internet stuff.

 

You type [ spoiler ] with no spaces between the brackets and the word. After [ spoiler ], you put your response.

 

At the end of your response, you put [ / spoiler ], again with no spaces.

 

It would look like this [spoilertutorial] whatever your post is [/spoilertutorial]

[God]

A couple days away with no food stores in the middle of Winter? Again, death, in a nut shell. Sure, Stannis wants to get rid of Davos to make all this easier, but the whole point is that Shireen's death is a turning point. 

 

If it was as simple as sitting tight and waiting for the Riders of Rohan to back him up, I'm sure Stannis would. But his army is fragmented as it is and nothing short of a miracle will save his troops. 

 

Like it or not, sacrificing Shireen is that miracle. Her death may bring not only fair weather (and victory) to Stannis, but also survival for his men. 

 

One life, even that of the princess, is hardly worth those men. Especially since Stannis needs that army.