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[TheClonesLegacy]

That's not an option. Stannis admits it. It's no longer possible at this point, even if he wanted to. 

 

Melisandre's magic and the Red God have been proven to work. Repeatedly. 

One time counts as repeatedly now?

 

Her claims about Gendrys blood taking out the Usurpers is a load of crap. It's 100% coincidental. Not to mention Greyjoy's still alive, ranting about Dagon, or the iron price, or whatever they do for fun on the Iron Islands.

And don't give me the "Mysterious ways" stuff. After you make someone give birth to a smoke assassin, and brought a guy back from the dead multiple times, you have no reason to be subtle anymore.

 

Especially when your mortal enemy, The Great Other has that whole army of Necromancer Ice creatures, the dead, and Ice Dragons, while your champion, Stannis, has a shiny sword.

Lightbringer isn't even Valyarian steel, he might as well be holding a big glow-stick.

 

Melisandre is incompetent.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, this is something I'm unclear about as well. At the most I would expect something to conjure itself out of thin air and kill the Boltons and leave Winterfel ripe for the picking, but I don't see how that helps the troops, unless the magic is powerful enough to make the weather fairer and their appetites smaller.

I believe the promo for the next ep shows the weather clearing.

[Iakus]

So that particular situation didn't come up in the book. OK, sure. But that's got nothing to do with character. Book-Stannis hasn't been put in the situation that TV-Stannis was in. Yet. When he is, he'll handle it the same way TV-Stannis did. That's who Stannis is, who Stannis has always been.

Not that precise situation, no. But he was in a similar predicament where his forces were caught in a storm and low on supplies. He was encouraged to kill random unbelievers (not even family) to appease the Lord of Light. He flatly refused and said "pray harder"

[God]

One time counts as repeatedly now?

 

Her claims about Gendrys blood taking out the Usurpers is a load of crap. It's 100% coincidental. Not to mention Greyjoy's still alive, ranting about Dagon, or the iron price, or whatever they do for fun on the Iron Islands.

And don't give me the "Mysterious ways" stuff. After you make someone give birth to a smoke assassin, and brought a guy back from the dead multiple times, you have no reason to be subtle anymore.

 

Especially when your mortal enemy, The Great Other has that whole army of Necromancer Ice creatures, the dead, and Ice Dragons, while your champion, Stannis, has a shiny sword.

Lightbringer isn't even Valyarian steel, he might as well be holding a big glow-stick.

 

Mellisandre is incompetent.

 

As it is, the show says otherwise. Will you still be dancing to this tune in a week or so? 

 

It sounds more like denial on your end. Balon Greyjoy isn't quite dead yet, yes, but then again, he's hardly a player. Plus, there is always the possibility that he will die (especially considering that casting for next season is looking for someone who seems particularly like Euron Greyjoy. Which probably means that Balon is going to bite the big one. 

[Iakus]

I type that in with the post? Sorry, but I am completely green at internet stuff.

Yeah type spoiler inbrackets [ ] to start the spoiler and /spoiler also in brackets at the end of it

[Malanek]

She looked into the fires and saw a person wearing Renly's armor. It makes sense to imagine that the person wearing Renly's armor is... Renly.

 

She never proclaimed that Stannis' sword was either magic or Lightbringer.

 

This point is still unverified and a matter of opinion.

 

If that is the case, then why are you distrusting her looking into the visions? You just said she misinterpreted them. As well, Shadow Baby proves you wrong.

 

Along with Thoros of Myr's powers, this is a pretty clear indication that Mel is onto something. 

Yes, she made a mistake. She saw something happen and it was completely different to how she thought it would happen.

 

She did. And it is magic, but it is simply an empty glamour as Aemon says. Are you implying that she told Stannis the truth behind the scenes? It was what got him to trust her in the first place.

 

What is a matter of opinion? That Stannis isn't Azor Ahai or that Mel didn't ever believe he was? The latter is definitely not a matter of opinion, we had a point of view chapter from her and see her thoughts. As for Stannis actually being the prince that was promised, well no it hasn't been confirmed but there have been hundreds of hints that he isn't. I can't really believe anyone reading the books would think that he is.

 

I didn't say she had no power. She has power. The shadow babies are clear signs she has power. But repeatedly? She has been wrong repeatedly, or pretending with empty glamours and is much less powerful than she makes out. If she really did kill the 3 kings rather than just seeing their deaths, why did she need to be so close to kill Renly and the Castellan at Storms end?

[dreamgazer]

The idea of what though? That Shireen is burnt? Sure. That Stannis is complicit in burning her? I doubt it. Certainly not before the battle of winterfell. It will be what Rawgrim said above in my opinion but possibly unintentionally, trying to save Stannis in response to the pink letter.

That's not really the tone conveyed in D&D's discussion, though, and I doubt Martin would "allow" the show to alter Stannis' future attitude in such a reversed way from what he's intending.

[AlanC9]

Not that precise situation, no. But he was in a similar predicament where his forces were caught in a storm and low on supplies. He was encouraged to kill random unbelievers (not even family) to appease the Lord of Light. He flatly refused and said "pray harder"

Good point. Let me amend my earlier point, then. TV-Stannis and Book-Stannis are following the same path. TV-Stannis just happens to be a bit further along it.

[Malanek]

That's not really the tone conveyed in D&D's discussion, though, and I doubt Martin would "allow" the show to alter Stannis' future attitude in such a reversed way from what he's intending.

Out of interest do you read the books? D&D have changed A LOT. GRRM doesn't have much say over what they do. The show has been very good to him, he has earned a lot of money and gained a huge number of fans from it. But he has reacted with surprise to what they have done in the past. I guess we will see once WoW is out.

[Il Divo]

One time counts as repeatedly now?

 

Her claims about Gendrys blood taking out the Usurpers is a load of crap. It's 100% coincidental. Not to mention Greyjoy's still alive, ranting about Dagon, or the iron price, or whatever they do for fun on the Iron Islands.

And don't give me the "Mysterious ways" stuff. After you make someone give birth to a smoke assassin, and brought a guy back from the dead multiple times, you have no reason to be subtle anymore.

 

Especially when your mortal enemy, The Great Other has that whole army of Necromancer Ice creatures, the dead, and Ice Dragons, while your champion, Stannis, has a shiny sword.

Lightbringer isn't even Valyarian steel, he might as well be holding a big glow-stick.

 

Melisandre is incompetent.

 

At the least, it's happened enough for Stannis to have brought her into the fold. Obviously, I think Melisandre is full of crap in a lot of ways, but from Stannis' POV, I can't say he's wrong to trust her power. Renly was a pretty damn solid murder. And while the leeches do have questionable results, Melisandre herself concedes in that case the leeches are less effective in their purpose than an actual sacrifice. Add on top of that, Stannis' one defeat at the Blackwater occurred while Davos had Melisandre restricted to Dragon Stone.

 

I think the show has, to an extent, downplayed Melisandre's own doubts regarding her abilities, but I also don't see Melisandre in this instance telling Stannis to sacrifice Shireen if it was not guaranteed to work. What do you think Stannis would do to her if he found out this was all for nothing? 

[AlanC9]

That's not really the tone conveyed in D&D's discussion, though, and I doubt Martin would "allow" the show to alter Stannis' future attitude in such a reversed way from what he's intending.

Yeah, I can't imagine GRRM telling them that Melisandre's gonna burn Shireen and then everyone forgetting to talk about Stannis' role in it.

[AlanC9]

Out of interest do you read the books? D&D have changed A LOT. GRRM doesn't have much say over what they do. The show has been very good to him, he has earned a lot of money and gained a huge number of fans from it. But he has reacted with surprise to what they have done in the past. I guess we will see once WoW is out.

Is anyone else starting to see "EA" and "Bioware" superimposed on this line of argument?

[TheClonesLegacy]

As it is, the show says otherwise. Will you still be dancing to this tune in a week or so? 

 

It sounds more like denial on your end. Balon Greyjoy isn't quite dead yet, yes, but then again, he's hardly a player. Plus, there is always the possibility that he will die (especially considering that casting for next season is looking for someone who seems particularly like Euron Greyjoy. Which probably means that Balon is going to bite the big one. 

In a week I won't care. The season'll be done and I'll be looking forward to other shows I watch to start up again after the summer...well except Constantine 

And AKA Jessica Jones to kick off next month of course.

 

Maybe if Mel did more than talk the same **** every appearance I'd have a higher opinion of her. But that's just how it goes I suppose. She's up there with High Sparrow with the more annoying characters.

 

At the least, it's happened enough for Stannis to have brought her into the fold. Obviously, I think Melisandre is full of crap in a lot of ways, but from Stannis' POV, I can't say he's wrong to trust her power. Renly was a pretty damn solid murder. And while the leeches do have questionable results, Melisandre herself concedes in that case the leeches are less effective in their purpose than an actual sacrifice. Add on top of that, Stannis' one defeat at the Blackwater occurred while Davos had Melisandre restricted to Dragon Stone.

 

I think the show has, to an extent, downplayed Melisandre's own doubts regarding her abilities. 

Her arrogance is what gets me. It was nice when Jon told her to get out of his face.

Because for once someone told her no, and unlike Davos or Arya it was someone with some actual authority. It was great.

 

She's on the "Please die already" list with Ramsay for sure.

[dreamgazer]

Out of interest do you read the books? D&D have changed A LOT. GRRM doesn't have much say over what they do. The show has been very good to him, he has earned a lot of money and gained a huge number of fans from it. But he has reacted with surprise to what they have done in the past. I guess we will see once WoW is out.

I'm aware they've changed a bit (yes, I'm a book reader), but I'm also aware of the situation involving advancing the story beyond what's been written, and Martin's outlines. Falsely shooting Stannis' character in the kneecaps before something happens in Martin's long-delayed, widely-anticipated books, especially when they've discussed the scenario face-to-face, is another matter.

[Iakus]

Out of interest do you read the books? D&D have changed A LOT. GRRM doesn't have much say over what they do. The show has been very good to him, he has earned a lot of money and gained a huge number of fans from it. But he has reacted with surprise to what they have done in the past. I guess we will see once WoW is out.

A few weeks ago after the "Sansa Incident" which also caused a lot of outrage, GRRM commented that the show has made a lot of changes over the seasons. And these changes are causing a Butterfly Effect leading to more and more divergence from the book. The little changes are causing bigger and bigger ones further down the line.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Well, the show actually portraying Stannis in a somewhat sympathetic light was nice while it lasted.

[dreamgazer]

A few weeks ago after the "Sansa Incident" which also caused a lot of outrage, GRRM commented that the show has made a lot of changes over the seasons. And these changes are causing a Butterfly Effect leading to more and more divergence from the book. The little changes are causing bigger and bigger ones further down the line.

This one was entirely avoidable, though, and the show runners even thought it was "horrible" in a tonal sense when Martin told them about it.

[Aimi]

Well, the show actually portraying Stannis in a somewhat sympathetic light was nice while it lasted.

[Volourn]

L0L Everyone bashed and criticized me when I called Stannis out as evil. I was right. He's also a coward. Murdering your own child to please some scumbag god and his psycho priestess. EVIL.

 

This is like simply following , say Cyric or a priest of Cyric, in DR/FR simply because their power is 'real'. It's a cult and an evil one at that.

 

Stannis has proven, once and for all, that he is evil to the core. He's also a flip flopper.

\

\On top of that, his wife is a better human being and parent than he is despite being crazy. HAHAHAHA!

 

I'm gonna miss Dany's fiancee. Good character and actor.

 

No Sansa. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

L0L Ramsay was in the previews and had a role to play yet he wans't even in the episode. (also very lame thatw hole sdet up).

 

And, Aary'a voice is very annoying. And, they just had to make Trant into a pervert who prefers young girls. Had to go the extra mile yo paint him as villain. Also,  I can guess exactly how Arya will kill him....

 

Not much at the Wall tonight.

[CronoDragoon]

Is anyone else starting to see "EA" and "Bioware" superimposed on this line of argument?

If we're drawing a BioWare parallel, I'd suggest the reaction to Inquisition's Grey Warden plot. Some claimed the Grey Wardens were character assassinated, whereas I always saw it as a consequentialist, cultish group revealing themselves to be as consequentialist and cultish as they've always been.

[Inquisitor Recon]

L0L Everyone bashed and criticized me when I called Stannis out as evil. I was right. He's also a coward. Murdering your own child to please some scumbag god and his psycho priestess. EVIL.

 

This is like simply following , say Cyric or a priest of Cyric, in DR/FR simply because their power is 'real'. It's a cult and an evil one at that.

 

Stannis has proven, once and for all, that he is evil to the core. He's also a flip flopper.

 

On top of that, his wife is a better human being and parent than he is despite being crazy. HAHAHAHA!

 

I'm gonna miss Dany's fiancee. Good character and actor.

People like you deserve Red Weddings. The show writers went out of their way to portray Stannis in the worst light possible for whatever reasons.

[Cainhurst Crow]

So now that this has dropped a lot of the pre-season 1 doubts are creeping back in. Questions of "Should the people who wrote Troy and X-men origin: Wolverine" really be trusted at the helm?" and "When Benioff said "Themes are for eighth-grade book reports" does that mean he doesn't understand how ASOIAF works?"

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I'm just gonna give a shout out to Doran Martell. Probably the last reasonable ruler in Westeros.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm just gonna give a shout out to Doran Martell. Probably the last reasonable ruler in Westeros.

 

Just wait. They'll make him Rape Myrcella for the shock values, before he then slits Trystane's throat with a big toothy grin.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Just wait. They'll make him Rape Myrcella for the shock values, before he then slits Trystane's throat with a big toothy grin.

Probably. Can't have one somewhat decent guy.

But then he'll reveal his master plan was to replace his wheelchair with a mech suit that shoots wildfire and is powered by Myrcella's lifeforce because inbred blood or something, and he'll conquer Westeros and all will be well.