So here we are two fanboys: one is generally acknowledged to be more logical and rational (to a point where he is seen to be a cold-hearted bastard) and utilizes information. The other is seen as a bleeding heart who argues from emotion and feeling. Who's considered more 'right' here?
Is the correct answer, neither? I'm pretty sure it's neither.
Tywin and the Lannisters would have lost if just by the sheer power of all the Great Houses arrayed against them, but I wonder if Robert would be as ruthless in eliminating that royal family as he was with the Targaryens? I'm guessing he wouldn't, because Targaryens aside, Robert tended to be fairly magnanimous. Jaime, as the new king, would need to die. Robert couldn't suffer a rival king to survive. But woulld Tywin share the same fate? Robert's unrelenting mercilessness towards the Targaryens always struck me as being as personal as it was pragmatic, and was fueled in part by the rage he still felt over what he viewed as Lyanna's abduction and rape. I think with the Lannisters it would be less personal, and so long as Tywin doesn't fall in battle, he may be allowed to take the black.
The Night's King might have had to face Lord Commander Tywin Lannister.
True. And the last two kings of the Iron Throne have been Baratheon in name only, so it probably worked out best. If only Littlefinger hadn't killed Jon Arryn...
CHAOSH ISH A LADDER.
To be fair, I don't see a problem with making Rhllor worship official. After all, he has more demonstrated power than the Seven. The Seven are absent or totally fake gods... at least worship a God that can grant miracles if you perform human sacrifice to them. That's just religious pragmatism 101.
Honestly, the 'proof' of R'hllor's existence is only a fairly recent phenomenon that coincides with the reemergence of dragons and magic in general. Thoros implies as much. I think a Melisandre POV does too.
There's nothing to say that because their sacrifices and rituals are working, that it is proof of R'hllor's existence. It could be just a way to access latent magic or what classifies as such in ASOIAFverse. An action for a reaction.
lol @ the idea Tyrells wouldn't do awful things to keep in power.
Robert didn't mass murder Targaryens
Most of the died at the disaster at Summerhall, Tywin killed Rhaegar's kids, Jaime killed Aerys himself, and Dany and Viserys escaped with their mother (who died shortly after).
Robert is in fact responsible for a single Targaryen death, Rhaegar
Plus there's Aemon who is a sworn brother of the Night's Watch and Bloodraven who is....a thing
And its Ironic because the first Baratheon was a general of Targaryen army and licked their boots to give him a royal family and a castle and they actually did, even gave him a daughter to marry.
Actually the first Baratheon was an illegitimate relative of the Targs. Who adopted the coat of arms and words of the former Storm Kings after marrying the last daughter of that house.
Orys was granted the Stormlands in reward for his loyalty and due diligence.
But please continue to butcher the lore to serve your Tyrell Dany obsession.
To be fair, the 'proof' of R'hllor's existence is only a fairly recent phenomenon that coincides with the reemergence of dragons and magic in general. Thoros implies as much. I think a Melisandre POV does too.
There's nothing to say that because their sacrifices and rituals are working, that it is proof of R'hllor's existence. It could be just a way to access latent magic or what classifies as such in ASOIAFverse. An action for a reaction.
There was a study that tried to draw a link between the amount of ice cream being sold and the amount of minor crimes causes by teens. Every year, as one would rise, so would the other. Turns out, it was seasonal. During the summer, kids by ice cream because of the weather. And kids have more free unsupervised time, so they also cause more minor crimes.
My point? Correlation does not equal causation. Your point is a very valid one. There could easily be another explanation besides R'hilor.
Mace Tyrell might seem like a likeable doofus, but he commands House Tyrell in name only. The real power in that house rests with its cunning matriarch, Olenna Tyrell. She is a great character, but she's also sort of a female version of Tywin. She's no less capable of ruthlessness.
Mace Tyrell might seem like a likeable doofus, but he commands House Tyrell in name only. The real power in that house rests with its cunning matriarch, Olenna Tyrell. She is a great character, but she's also sort of a female version of Tywin. She's no less capable of ruthlessness.
she's also just as powerless in the face of the Sparrows
short of attacking them ourtight with her army
There was a study that tried to draw a link between the amount of ice cream being sold and the amount of minor crimes causes by teens. Every year, as one would rise, so would the other. Turns out, it was seasonal. During the summer, kids by ice cream because of the weather. And kids have more free unsupervised time, so they also cause more minor crimes.
My point? Correlation does not equal causation. Your point is a very valid one. There could easily be another explanation besides R'hilor.
Ha, I think a uni lecturer used the same example in a Biostats course I took a couple of years back.
It reminds me of the way that some religious folk operate today, where they'll correlate natural disaster or some other catastrophe with some perceived sin that is being committed or will ascribe good fortune to being blessed. Granted, there's less 'proof' in these cases than R'hllor's rituals but again, we don't have the same magic system in place that ASOIAFverse does.
Mace Tyrell might seem like a likeable doofus, but he commands House Tyrell in name only. The real power in that house rests with its cunning matriarch, Olenna Tyrell. She is a great character, but she's also sort of a female version of Tywin. She's no less capable of ruthlessness.
Honestly, I had to do a double take when I first read this because I legitmately forgot that Mace was the head of the House and not Olenna. Agreed 100% that's she's an amazing character (the Queen of Thorns) and probably my favorite if I had to pick just one. But the idea that House Tyrell is any less ruthless than the other houses is pretty laughable. Sure, they don't flay people alive or burn their daughters, but that's only because they haven't had to in order to get ahead because of Olenna and Margaery.
Honestly, I had to do a double take when I first read this because I legitmately forgot that Mace was the head of the House and not Olenna. Agreed 100% that's she's an amazing character (the Queen of Thorns) and probably my favorite if I had to pick just one. But the idea that House Tyrell is any less ruthless than the other houses is pretty laughable. Sure, they don't flay people alive or burn their daughters, but that's only because they haven't had to because of Olenna and Margaery.
Well to be fair, they have been content to pimp out Margaery to three seperate kings
she's also just as powerless in the face of the Sparrows
short of attacking them ourtight with her army
You think Tywin would've been powerless in the face of the Sparrows?
lol. Those insufferable zealots actually make me miss Joffrey.
There was a study that tried to draw a link between the amount of ice cream being sold and the amount of minor crimes causes by teens. Every year, as one would rise, so would the other. Turns out, it was seasonal. During the summer, kids by ice cream because of the weather. And kids have more free unsupervised time, so they also cause more minor crimes.
My point? Correlation does not equal causation. Your point is a very valid one. There could easily be another explanation besides R'hilor.
http://twentytwoword...ats-9-pictures/
You think Tywin would've been powerless in the face of the Sparrows?
lol. Those insufferable zealots actually make me miss Joffrey.
Tywin wouldn't have been stupid enough to give them the legitimate backing of the Crown
Tywin wouldn't have been stupid enough to give them the legitimate backing of the Crown
Very few of the contenders would be.
Gotta hand it to Cersei. She's REALLY good at ****** up.
Very few of the contenders would be.
Gotta hand it to Cersei. She's REALLY good at ****** up.
Well to be fair, they have been content to pimp out Margaery to three seperate kings
Exactly. If they didn't have Olenna's brain and Margaery's.....brain(?), then they might be just as ruthless as the others. Frankly, while I like House Tyrell, I've always viewed them as kind of annoyingly privileged pompous house. Because they happen to have the majority of the crops, they've always had a built in bargaining chip with major weight. They've not really had to work much harder than that. Sure, Olenna's scheming pretty hard to get Margaery on the throne (and seems to be cultivating her to take over as unofficial matriarch of the family once she's gone), but they haven't really had to struggle the way some other families have. Of course it's easy to be the 'nice House' in those circumstances.
Tywin wouldn't have been stupid enough to give them the legitimate backing of the Crown
True. But he still would've owned them if they had somehow gotten the power.
Spoiler
"Chaos is a ladder. But this is ridiculous."
Exactly. If they didn't have Olenna's brain and Margaery's.....brain(?), then they might be just as ruthless as the others. Frankly, while I like House Tyrell, I've always viewed them as kind of annoyingly privileged pompous house. Because they happen to have the majority of the crops, they've always had a built in bargaining chip with major weight. They've not really had to work much harder than that. Sure, Olenna's scheming pretty hard to get Margaery on the throne (and seems to be cultivating her to take over as unofficial matriarch of the family once she's gone), but they haven't really had to struggle the way some other families have. Of course it's easy to be the 'nice House' in those circumstances.
it ain't her brain they need
it ain't her brain they need
I'd be inclined to say it was or rather that it was a combination of beauty and brain they needed: Margaery's beauty would only have gotten them so far with Joffrey and it was how Margaery played him that kept her interesting to him even to such an extent that she could somewhat manipulate him.
You think Tywin would've been powerless in the face of the Sparrows?
lol. Those insufferable zealots actually make me miss Joffrey.
He would be if they had imprisoned Jaime and Cersei.
The Sparrows have leverage on House Tyrell at the moment, mainly because of Cersei's fatal combination of hubris and stupidity, and because Tommen is a weak king. An army from the Reach commanded by Randall Tarly (one of Mace Tyrell's bannermen) could take King's Landing and crush the sparrows, but it would probably mean Loras and Margaery would be murdered by their captors before the city fell.
Tommen should summon the High Sparrow for a meeting, ostensibly to negotiate, but when the High Sparrow makes his appearance, have the King's Guard seize him and slay anyone who gets in the way. Simultaneously send a raven to Randall Tarly and have him start to move an army into position to attack King's Landing. Negotiate a prisoner exchange with the sparrows, exchanging the High Sparrow for Cersei, Margaery, and Loras. After the exchange, deliver an ultimatum for the sparrows to depart the city. If they refuse, attack the city with Tarly's army and annihilate them.
Tommen however is a weak king, and would rather sit in his room and sulk than take any aggressive action.
Tywin and the Lannisters would have lost if just by the sheer power of all the Great Houses arrayed against them, but I wonder if Robert would be as ruthless in eliminating that royal family as he was with the Targaryens? I'm guessing he wouldn't, because Targaryens aside, Robert tended to be fairly magnanimous. Jaime, as the new king, would need to die. Robert couldn't suffer a rival king to survive. But woulld Tywin share the same fate? Robert's unrelenting mercilessness towards the Targaryens always struck me as being as personal as it was pragmatic, and was fueled in part by the rage he still felt over what he viewed as Lyanna's abduction and rape. I think with the Lannisters it would be less personal, and so long as Tywin doesn't fall in battle, he may be allowed to take the black.
The Night's King might have had to face Lord Commander Tywin Lannister.
Lyanna's death broke Robert's heart. It's quite likely the source of his unreasoning rage at the Targaryans.
Tommen however is a weak king, and would rather sit in his room and sulk than take any aggressive action.
Tommen's actions would make more sense if he was the seven year old from the book.
As t is, I think they're going overboard contrasting him as "not Joffrey"
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