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[Lulupab]

I never denied that.

 

But you seem to deny what caused Robert to hold that view. And Stannis was going to be tossed aside no matter what he did, because he was Stannis. 

 

And as they say, the truth is never that simple. If you opened fanboy eyes for Dany, maybe you'd see it. Robert cooled off enough to realize that it was senseless to murder the two and eventually called off the assassins.

 

So here we are two fanboys: one is generally acknowledged to be more logical and rational (to a point where he is seen to be a cold-hearted bastard) and utilizes information. The other is seen as a bleeding heart who argues from emotion and feeling. Who's considered more 'right' here?

 

I'm not even a Dany fangirl, I just prefer her over Stannis. Simple as that. Why? Because Westeros does not need another tyrant or zealot whom their humanity is debatable at this point. I'm not objectively saying he doesn't have humanity, but it can be argued and debated which speaks volumes about him. Its the doubt that's important.

 

If I'm being bold, people like Stannis are attack dogs. They must be leashed and used in military matters, not become kings. He would be a perfect general but a terrible king. I think we both know this at this point. If you take a look at our leaders in the past who were war veterans you'll quickly realize a pattern of unhappy populace, civil wars and wars in general. Stannis is not meant to be in realm of politics and diplomacy and there is no future for Westeros if Stannis actually manages to conquer it, another Robert is best expectation one can have of him, but I expect even less.

[Ozzy]

Just you wait, you all think that Tommen has been sulking and hiding away but he has been training Ser Pounce for the prison break of the century.

 

We'll get a montage and everything next ep. 

[Dark Helmet]

Tommen's actions would make more sense if he was the seven year old from the book.

 

As t is, I think they're going overboard contrasting him as "not Joffrey"

 

Tommen should really just give up this king thing and go open a bakery somewhere.

[Lulupab]

Actually the first Baratheon was an illegitimate relative of the Targs. Who adopted the coat of arms and words of the former Storm Kings after marrying the last daughter of that house.

 

Orys was granted the Stormlands in reward for his loyalty and due diligence.

 

But please continue to butcher the lore to serve your Tyrell Dany obsession.

 

I didn't even mention the illegitimate part lmao.

 

Sure, you can honeyword it if you like. Many generals were loyal, yet he was the only one who got a title and land.

[TheRealJayDee]

Tommen should really just give up this king thing and go open a bakery somewhere.

Tommen, apprentice of Hot Pie?! I could live with that.

[Shechinah]

*snip*

 

I'm not so sure a prisoner exchange would be a thing since the High Sparrow might have planned for such an eventuality and strikes me as a man prepared to become a martyr without jeopardising the strength of the Sparrows' leadership. Since they have the city's common people's favor, if I recall correctly, then his death as martyrdom might only further  increase tensions and fuel to the fire.
 

[Steelcan]

I'm not even a Dany fangirl, I just prefer her over Stannis. Simple as that. Why? Because Westeros does not need another tyrant or zealot whom their humanity is debatable at this point. I'm not objectively saying he doesn't have humanity, but it can be argued and debated which speaks volumes about him. Its the doubt that's important.

 

If I'm being bold, people like Stannis are attack dogs. They must be leashed and used in military matters, not become kings. He would be a perfect general but a terrible king. I think we both know this at this point. If you take a look at our leaders in the past who were war veterans you'll quickly realize a pattern of unhappy populace, civil wars and wars in general. Stannis is not meant to be in realm of politics and diplomacy and there is no future for Westeros if Stannis actually manages to conquer it, another Robert is best expectation one can have of him, but I expect even less.

There is no future for Westeros if Stannis doesn't assume the Iron Throne as is his right.

 

He is the King who Cared, he is the one who understands the biggest threat is not the High Sparrow, or the Tyrells, or the Martells, or even the moron across the sea daring to call herself Queen of Mereen.  Winter is Coming and only one king is doign anything about it.

[Steelcan]

I didn't even mention the illegitimate part lmao.

 

Sure, you can honeyword it if you like. Many generals were loyal, yet he was the only one who got a title and land.

because Orys was Aegon's half brother?

[God]

You think Tywin would've been powerless in the face of the Sparrows?

 

lol. Those insufferable zealots actually make me miss Joffrey.

 

Tywin would have recognized them as a threat, and he would have ordered some kind of assassination of the High Sparrow. If drawn into a match with the High Sparrow (who did beat the Queen of Thornes, who is acknowledged to be Tywin's equal in many ways), he'd have the same result likely. Tywin would have to resort to violence.

 

So... yes, Tywin would have been powerless as far as his abilities of non-lethal coercion go. Tywin would have seen the issue from the start and resorted to violence instead of trying to engage with the Sparrows in dialogue however. 

 

And that's the point: the Sparrows are representative of religious zealousness, the type that can't be negotiated with.

[Han Shot First]

Tommen's actions would make more sense if he was the seven year old from the book.

 

As t is, I think they're going overboard contrasting him as "not Joffrey"

 

Yeah, sitting in his room and being despondent would be more understandable if he was just a child. For the adult version in the TV series he just seems indecisive and weak. Gold his crown, and gold his shroud. Only a matter of time now if he keeps that up.

[CrutchCricket]

I'd be inclined to say it was or rather that it was a combination of beauty and brain they needed: Margaery's beauty would only have gotten them so far with Joffrey and it was how Margaery played him that kept her interesting to him even to sucha n extent that she could somewhat manipulate him.
 

Indeed. Margaery's clever enough on her own. I think she'd be a good successor to Olena.

 

He would be if they had imprisoned Jaime and Cersei.

 

The Sparrows have leverage on House Tyrell at the moment, mainly because of Cersei's fatal combination of hubris and stupidity, and because Tommen is a weak king. An army from the Reach commanded by Randall Tarly (one of Mace Tyrell's bannermen) could take King's Landing and crush the sparrows, but it would probably mean Loras and Margaery would be murdered by their captors before the city fell.

 

Tommen should summon the High Sparrow for a meeting, ostensibly to negotiate, but when the High Sparrow makes his appearance, have the King's Guard seize him and slay anyone who gets in the way. Simultaneously send a raven to Randall Tarly and have him start to move an army into position to attack King's Landing. Negotiate a prisoner exchange with the sparrows, exchanging the High Sparrow for Cersei, Margaery, and Loras. After the exchange, deliver an ultimatum for the sparrows to depart the city. If they refuse, attack the city with Tarly's army and annihilate them.

 

Tommen however is a weak king, and would rather sit in his room and sulk than take any aggressive action. 

Tywin would be able to outmaneuver them regardless I think. I saw Olena compared to him earlier and while that's true I think she lacks the bite to his bark. Not that she's not able or willing to follow through with threats. Just that she rarely has to. Olena's used to political and social maneuvering, where threats and deterrents are the weapons of choice. Tywin on the other hand has the battle edge to him. He doesn't just threaten, he destroys. I think the difference between them is made clear when they butt heads over the marriage arrangements in season 4. It's also why she can't do much to the High Sparrow or even understand him. Tywin wouldn't threaten, he'd act. Any interaction between him and the High Sparrow wouldn't be verbal fencing, it'd be leading the latter to annihilation.

 

Tommen's man card is permanently revoked. One does not simply allow Margaery to be taken by zealots.

[Dark Helmet]

because Orys was Aegon's half brother?

 

AND they seem to have had some genuine familial affection.

 

Not all that surprising Aegon threw his brother a bone.

[TheRealJayDee]

Stannis is the king who burned the kindest, smartest, sweetest little girl in Westeros alive. His own daughter. **** Stannis! 

[Lulupab]

There is no future for Westeros if Stannis doesn't assume the Iron Throne as is his right.

 

He is the King who Cared, he is the one who understands the biggest threat is not the High Sparrow, or the Tyrells, or the Martells, or even the moron across the sea daring to call herself Queen of Mereen.  Winter is Coming and only one king is doign anything about it.

 

You can't do anything about white walkers from Mereen, its probbaly the farthest large city from Westeros. Regardless, Dragon glass and Dragon steel kill white walkers. Pretty sure dragon fire does as well. Dany doesn't even know winter is coming, not sure anyone in Essos knows, heck 80% of Westeros doesn't know either. If Stannis was meant to fight the undead, then so be it. He will be remembered for it, but lets be real about Stannis in politics and diplomacy and ruling in general. He is meant to be a general.

 

because Orys was Aegon's half brother?

 

Bastards do not inherit anything in Targaryen customs, they do not even inherit the heat resistance and dragon control. Some even speculate Viserys was a bastard because the molten gold shouldn't have killed him.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I feel sorry for Tommen. He's a good-hearted kid, just not cut out for this job circumstance shoved him into and is probably going to end up face down in a ditch at some point.

[Shechinah]

There is no future for Westeros if Stannis doesn't assume the Iron Throne as is his right.

 

He is the King who Cared, he is the one who understands the biggest threat is not the High Sparrow, or the Tyrells, or the Martells, or even the moron across the sea daring to call herself Queen of Mereen.  Winter is Coming and only one king is doign anything about it.

In fairness to Daenerys, she's been raised by Viserys and everything she knows of Westeros has primarily been through him so there is a likelihood she has never even heard the stories of the Others during her upbringing and if she did, she more than likely was told that they were nothing more than figures in old stories meant to frighten children.

 

If that is the case then it is hard to take into consideration something you might not know even exist.

[Han Shot First]

I'm not so sure a prisoner exchange would be a thing since the High Sparrow might have planned for such an eventuality and strikes me as a man prepared to become a martyr without jeopardising the strength of the Sparrows' leadership. Since they have the city's common people's favor, if I recall correctly, then his death as martyrdom might only further  increase tensions and fuel to the fire.
 

 

It is possible that the High Sparrow would sense a trap and refuse to show, but it should still be attempted. The only means for Tommen to get both Margaery and Cersei released would be to exchange a prisoner the sparrows care about, and the High Sparrow is likely the only one that fits that bill. They need to take the High Sparrow prisoner by some means.

 

The alternatives are either doing what Tommen is doing currently, which is nothing and abdicating power to the Sparrows, or attacking the city without a prisoner exchange. The latter would restore royal authority but would likely come at the cost of Cersei and Margaery's deaths. It might also reduce King's Landing to rubble. So in that sense it should probably be the last resort, and an attempt should first be made at seizing the High Sparrow.

[Dark Helmet]

Bastards do not inherit anything in Targaryen customs, they do not even inherit the heat resistance and dragon control. Some even speculate Viserys was a bastard because the molten gold shouldn't have killed him.

 

Clearly you have never heard of cadet branches.

[God]

I'm not even a Dany fangirl, I just prefer her over Stannis. Simple as that. Why? Because Westeros does not need another tyrant or zealot whom their humanity is debatable at this point. I'm not objectively saying he doesn't have humanity, but it can be argued and debated which speaks volumes about him. Its the doubt that's important.

 

If I'm being bold, people like Stannis are attack dogs. They must be leashed and used in military matters, not become kings. He would be a perfect general but a terrible king. I think we both know this at this point. If you take a look at our leaders in the past who were war veterans you'll quickly realize a pattern of unhappy populace, civil wars and wars in general. Stannis is not meant to be in realm of politics and diplomacy and there is no future for Westeros if Stannis actually manages to conquer it, another Robert is best expectation one can have of him, but I expect even less.

 

 

I'm not even a Dany fangirl, I just prefer her over Stannis. Simple as that. Why? Because Westeros does not need another tyrant or zealot whom their humanity is debatable at this point. I'm not objectively saying he doesn't have humanity, but it can be argued and debated which speaks volumes about him. Its the doubt that's important.

 

If I'm being bold, people like Stannis are attack dogs. They must be leashed and used in military matters, not become kings. He would be a perfect general but a terrible king. I think we both know this at this point. If you take a look at our leaders in the past who were war veterans you'll quickly realize a pattern of unhappy populace, civil wars and wars in general. Stannis is not meant to be in realm of politics and diplomacy and there is no future for Westeros if Stannis actually manages to conquer it, another Robert is best expectation one can have of him, but I expect even less.

 

I think you are. You've certainly demonstrated a massive propensity for her. I prefer Stannis for the same reason: He's no zealot, and he's no tyrant. Humanity is not something that a king needs to have all the time. That it is debatable means that he understands war and duty far more than Dany Sue ever could. He knows how to set aside his compassion and humanity when it becomes a weakness (and it can become a weakness)

 

Please tell me more about how you think military veterans are attack dogs who lead to unhappy populations and civil wars! Otherwise, your point on Stannis is almost an entirely biased view based on speculation of what you want to happen if Stannis becomes king. He'll do away with a lot of the scheming and power systems. As well, we all know that there will be a war. In the North. We saw them coming down. 

 

And do you really think Dany Sue isn't going to kill and burn hundreds or thousands in her 'campaign of liberation?'

[CrutchCricket]

Tywin would have recognized them as a threat, and he would have ordered some kind of assassination of the High Sparrow. If drawn into a match with the High Sparrow (who did beat the Queen of Thornes, who is acknowledged to be Tywin's equal in many ways), he'd have the same result likely. Tywin would have to resort to violence.

 

So... yes, Tywin would have been powerless as far as his abilities of non-lethal coercion go. Tywin would have seen the issue from the start and resorted to violence instead of trying to engage with the Sparrows in dialogue however. 

 

And that's the point: the Sparrows are representative of religious zealousness, the type that can't be negotiated with.

I don't expect non-lethal coercion. I very much desire highly lethal coercion.

 

My point is Olena went in expecting to use political and social deterrents. Tywin would go in with a trap. A very lethal, very effective trap.

 

I also think he'd have a plan for breaking out Cersei covertly. Not that I particularly want to see that. She's fine as is.

 

The other thing is, he wouldn't need to call in an outside army. I see a lot less Lannister soldiers around King's Landing these days. That wouldn't have happened if Tywin had still been around.

[Fast Jimmy]

There was a study that tried to draw a link between the amount of ice cream being sold and the amount of minor crimes causes by teens. Every year, as one would rise, so would the other. Turns out, it was seasonal. During the summer, kids by ice cream because of the weather. And kids have more free unsupervised time, so they also cause more minor crimes.

My point? Correlation does not equal causation. Your point is a very valid one. There could easily be another explanation besides R'hilor.

Yet I see no magic being performed by followers of the Seven?

If it is the case that it is just Magic coming back, wouldn't it affect all religions equally? Or at least be only with people who were born/raised a certain way, to show that it was their bloodline/training in effect?

Beric Dondarion pokes a hole at that, being a recent convert from the North and yet able to wield the power of resurrection coming from the Lord of Light.

EDIT: NVM, Beric only has the magical ability to create fire around his sword, a power that was given to him only AFTER he was brought back by the dead by Thoros, who was born in Myr and raised as a Red Priest. I take back my statement.

[Shechinah]

I feel sorry for Tommen. He's a good-hearted kid, just not cut out for this job circumstance shoved him into and is probably going to end up face down in a ditch at some point.

And that is if he is lucky.

 

[HiroVoid]

Stannis is the king who burned the kindest, smartest, sweetest little girl in Westeros alive. His own daughter. LOVE Stannis! 

Filled out your blank for you.

[Steelcan]

You can't do anything about white walkers from Mereen, its probbaly the farthest large city from Westeros. Regardless, Dragon glass and Dragon steel kill white walkers. Pretty sure dragon fire does as well. Dany doesn't even know winter is coming, not sure anyone in Essos knows, heck 80% of Westeros doesn't know either. If Stannis was meant to fight the undead, then so be it. He will be remembered for it, but lets be real about Stannis in politics and diplomacy and ruling in general. He is meant to be a general.

 

 

Bastards do not inherit anything in Targaryen customs, they do not even inherit the heat resistance and dragon control. Some even speculate Viserys was a bastard because the molten gold shouldn't have killed him.

Damn if only she had ships to sail with, or some sort of flying creatures....

 

Stannis is king by rights, and honestly in the long term he'd be the best option, not only does he understand the Others as a threat, he's also above the petty politics played by most of the realm.  King's are first and foremost military leaders.  A leader like that is what is needed,  not only for the Others but to bring the rest of Westeros back to heel.

 

You know, except when the Blackfyres got the Valyrian sword and all but official sanction to succeed Aegon the Unworthy.  Furthermore, Orys inherited nothing, he adopted Durrandon sigils and words.

[Ozzy]

Bastards do not inherit anything in Targaryen customs, they do not even inherit the heat resistance and dragon control. Some even speculate Viserys was a bastard because the molten gold shouldn't have killed him.

 

The Targaryens don't have any heat resistance. Many have come up against fire and lost. The molten gold would have absolutely killed any of them.