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[Steelcan]

Targaryens had many cousins, uncles etc... and none were saved. Only children of Rhaella Targaryen survived because she acted on time.

. Once again no, most of the Targaryen family died at the disaster at Summer hall, not in the rebellion

[Lulupab]

Lol at all Stannis arguements, all i can say about him:

book version = awesome

series version = crap

 

Yeah, its kinda odd. I think due to his fate, whatever it is, the show is trying to descend him gradually to fit that fate in opposed to it being a complete surprise in the books.

 

Though take it with a grain of salt since its merely speculation.

[Steelcan]

What?
 
Was he even sane enough to make such decision? 
 
This is just an opinion on my part, since the "Targaryen madness" hasn't effected any of the female members. Not counting Viserying who could be just damaged due to their very hard life, there are 4 known mad Targaryens, all of which are male. And in case of Rhaella she pretty much hid Aerys's madness from the eyes of public as long as she could, in hopes of his death before a disaster. She seems quite capable to me.

wut

[Lulupab]

. Once again no, most of the Targaryen family died at the disaster at Summer hall, not in the rebellion

 

Oh that... How many died exactly? To my knowledge Aegon V was trying to do what Dany did in s1 to hatch dragons but it failed.

 

There was still many relatives alive though, the summerhall tragedy probably killed the king, his heir and immediate relatives.

[DrBlingzle]

What?

 

Was he even sane enough to make such decision? 

 

This is just an opinion on my part, since the "Targaryen madness" hasn't effected any of the female members. Not counting Viserying who could be just damaged due to their very hard life, there are 4 known mad Targaryens, all of which are male. And in case of Rhaella she pretty much hid Aerys's madness from the eyes of public as long as she could, in hopes of his death before a disaster. She seems quite capable to me.

Yes he still had enough sanity to send (some of) his family to safety. But he his insanity and paranoia drove him to believethat Drone had betrayed him at the Trident hense why he kept Elia and her children at kings landing to act as hostages to keep the "treacherous" Dornish loyal (of course this was pure nonsense, Dorne was probably more loyal than the Tyrells IMO). 

 

Edit: Here you go. At 2:49 Oberyn explains how Aerys sent them away. 

[Lulupab]

Yes he still had enough sanity to send (some of) his family to safety. But he his insanity and paranoia drove him to believethat Drone had betrayed him at the Trident hense why he kept Elia and her children at kings landing to act as hostages to keep the "treacherous" Dornish loyal (of course this was pure nonsense, Dorne was probably more loyal than the Tyrells IMO). 

 

Edit: Here you go. At 2:49 Oberyn explains how Aerys sent them away. 

 

Thanks for the link, I most likely missed it.

 

The thing with Tyrells is there are very unlikely to betray, unless you betray them first. But they don't show much loyalty either. Its sort of a live and let live mentality, but they show outstanding amount loyalty (for their usual standards) to Targaryens and achieved the only victory for them.

 

Dorne could have helped more, but it didn't. They had many of their resources when king's landing fell in opposed to army of Tyrells laying siege to Storm's end in the meanwhile.

[DrBlingzle]

Thanks for the link, I most likely missed it.

 

The thing with Tyrells is there are very unlikely to betray, unless you betray them first. But they don't show much loyalty either. Its sort of a live and let live mentality, but they show outstanding amount loyalty (for their usual standards) to Targaryens and achieved the only victory for them.

That "victory" wasn't much of a defeat for Robert to be honest. Ashford is widely accepted as an indecisive battle, I think even Olenna (in the books) agrees with this. As for Tyrells being loyal, I have to disagree. They could of send a small contingent of men to besiege storms end (which only had 500 men) while the main army joined up with Rhaegar at the trident. The Tyrell army could of changed the course of the battle and smashed the rebellion. It's likely that the reason they didn't do this was because it would of put them in serious risk if the rebels won. As it happened the entire army of the rach laid siege to storms end. This meant that if the Targaryens won they would be rewarded as loyal servants and if the rebels won they wouldn't lose men or be punished harshly as they didn't harm Robert that much. The Tyrells went with the safest option for their house, I think Margaery pretty much confirms this in another "History and Lore of Westeros" video, I'll try and find it. On top of that Olenna pretty much runs the Tyrells and she clearly has loyalty only to herself and her family. I think she sees Margaery as her Protegee and would betray or support anyone to see her in power be they Targaryen, Lannister or whatever.    

Dorne could have helped more, but it didn't. They had many of their resources when king's landing fell in opposed to full might of Tyrells laying siege to Storm's end in the meanwhile.

I agree that Dorne could of done more. Doran was slow to act because he was (understandably) pissed off about Rhaegar cheating on his Doran own daughter. But it's worth mentioning that they at least sent troops to fight the rebellion and would likely of supported the Targaryens all the way (as long as it kept Elia and her family safe anyway. The Dornish look after their own) as opposed to the Tyrells who I think would only support the Targaryens for as long as it suited them.

[Addai]

So "productive" in your eyes is genocide, fall of kingdoms and etc... Good to know. This is the military aspect that I hate and you bring into every post. Productive would be stopping wars without bloodshed or too few spilled blood. Repeat all the times you want, it doesn't matter.
 
Entire region of Essos against her? Did you miss the first episodes of this season? The whole Essos is fascinated by her, even a priest of red religion was inviting people to follow her.
 
She has saved ten thousand men with mutilated organ. I'm sorry you don't see this as "productive". Now they die protecting their queen, instead of dying like rabid dogs without penis.
 
Stannis was outsmarted by a Targaryen woman before, Daenerus mother which resulted in her children's escape. He will be outsmarted by a Targaryen woman again, bookmark me. I will quote this when it happens.

It's canon in books and show that she has made people's lives demonstrably worse, including slaves that are begging to be allowed to go back into their masters' service rather than starve. It's also book canon, though not yet shown in the show as much, that armies are being raised against her, so Slaver's Bay is most definitely not hers let alone Essos where to many people she's just a troublesome rumor.

[Steelcan]

Oh that... How many died exactly? To my knowledge Aegon V was trying to do what Dany did in s1 to hatch dragons but it failed.

 

There was still many relatives alive though, the summerhall tragedy probably killed the king, his heir and immediate relatives.

The Targaryen House was never particularly numerous after the Dance of Dragons, most of them died in Summerhall when Aegon tried to bring back dragons, his immediate family was most of the extant Targaryen house at the time, the only survivors were Aerys, his sister, and Rhaegar.

 

and Aemon and Bloodraven, but they don't count

[God]

How do we know that alternative is worse though?

 

This is exactly the kind of reasoning that fanatics (I'm not calling you one btw) use to justify their bullshit actions. That such sacrifice is necessary because if we don't do it, we're doomed. That prejudice, hatred and genocide is justified because the alternative is worse and that these actions are necessary for survival.

 

Like I said, I believe that there is power in blood magic in ASOIAFverse (since magic in general came back) but not necessarily in the narrow and set way that R'hllor worshipers espouse.

 

The immediate alternative is starvation or freezing to death in the Winter period. The more long term issue is having the White Walkers attack, and not having any ability to form a power base. Stannis is the only man who heeds the warnings of the Watch. With him gone, the Watch has no allies to call on, no ability or preparedness for the kingdom to even try to repel the Walkers, and more endless jockeying and positioning.

 

There are a lot of fanatics and extremists who do those, I won't lie. They use 'the greater good' as part of their defense. I'm practical and rational enough to see when that happens. 

 

But the thing here is that not everyone who does that is a fanatic or extremist. Some people do know how to steel themselves and do things they normally wouldn't or couldn't do, and that includes actions that would normally be seen as morally or ethically reprehensible and downright evil. Yet, they realize that sometimes, those actions really are the right thing to do, insofar as their goal goes. And Stannis' goal is to save the kingdom and take the throne. That's an altogether righteous enough goal (against a foe that is that terrible) that it does indeed justify whatever action that promotes that goal, even the morally abhorrent ones.

[God]

 
So "productive" in your eyes is genocide, fall of kingdoms and etc... Good to know. This is the military aspect that I hate and you bring into every post. Productive would be stopping wars without bloodshed or too few spilled blood. Repeat all the times you want, it doesn't matter.

 

Entire region of Essos against her? Did you miss the first episodes of this season? The whole Essos is fascinated by her, even a priest of red religion was inviting people to follow her.

 

She has saved ten thousand men with mutilated organ. I'm sorry you don't see this as "productive". Now they die protecting their queen, instead of dying like rabid dogs without penis.

 

Stannis was outsmarted by a Targaryen woman before, Daenerus mother which resulted in her children's escape. He will be outsmarted by a Targaryen woman again, bookmark me. I will quote this when it happens.

 

There was no 'genocide'. No party thus far (except the White Walkers/Others) is guilty of committing genocide. 

 

The fall of kingdoms? No, I don't support that. You do. You support Daenerys. Guess what she's been doing in Slaver's Bay? Causing kingdoms to fall. 

 

I do support the fall of failed dynasty's. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind the Targaryen's. I think they're pretty cool. I just don't like Daenerys. But the Targaryen's, by the time of Aerys fall, were a failed dynasty. They had fallen into disrepair after Rhaegar (the last good Targaryen, sans Aemon and Bloodraven) had died. The Mad King was just that. He needed to be taken down. And to do so, it was also time for the Targaryen's to be ousted, as you couldn't just take one king down and support another. The first act of the new Targaryen monarch would be to put the rebels to death, no matter how justified their rebellion. They needed to be cleaned off the map.

 

As for the way you want to stop wars? It's nice when it works, but it doesn't always work. Stick to Social Justice crusades, not military utility. Sometimes, the best way involves a large amount of deaths to prevent a larger amount of deaths. Not liking violence doesn't make violence any less likely.Violence is better as when it is a tool to be utilized, rather than an action to be prevented.

 

An entire region of Essos, yes. Not all of it. The Dothraki aren't fond of her after Drogo's death. All of Slaver's Bay want's her dead. Many other parts are irritated and terrified that she'll come and destroy their city for her petulant ideology. She's really only popular with the smallest of the small, and those are slaves who don't really understand what it means to be free. Her own city of Meereen is largely opposed to her at this point as well.

 

The Unsullied? She didn't save them, she bought them. And they still do exactly what they were trained to do. They just have the luxury of having a 'name' now. Otherwise, they're still cockless dogs who die without a penis. That they do it for their master makes no difference.

 

Stannis outsmarted by Rhaella Targaryen? Where? She was ordered to flee to Dragonstone long before Stannis got out of Storm's End. He had nothing to do with her flight, on the Mad King's orders. By the time Stannis took Dragonstone, Rhaella was dead, and had been for some time. The two Targaryen children were since smuggled to Braavos before Stannis even had Dragonstone in sight on the Horizon. For god's sake, learn the lore man! 

 

As Dark Helmet says, I'm pretty sure you don't care about the story or lore if it makes Dany Sue look less awesome.

[Lulupab]

There was no 'genocide'. No party thus far (except the White Walkers/Others) is guilty of committing genocide. 

 

The fall of kingdoms? No, I don't support that. You do. You support Daenerys. Guess what she's been doing in Slaver's Bay? Causing kingdoms to fall. 

 

I do support the fall of failed dynasty's. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind the Targaryen's. I think they're pretty cool. I just don't like Daenerys. But the Targaryen's, by the time of Aerys fall, were a failed dynasty. They had fallen into disrepair after Rhaegar (the last good Targaryen, sans Aemon and Bloodraven) had died. The Mad King was just that. He needed to be taken down. And to do so, it was also time for the Targaryen's to be ousted, as you couldn't just take one king down and support another. The first act of the new Targaryen monarch would be to put the rebels to death, no matter how justified their rebellion. They needed to be cleaned off the map.

 

As for the way you want to stop wars? It's nice when it works, but it doesn't always work. Stick to Social Justice crusades, not military utility. Sometimes, the best way involves a large amount of deaths to prevent a larger amount of deaths. Not liking violence doesn't make violence any less likely.Violence is better as when it is a tool to be utilized, rather than an action to be prevented.

 

An entire region of Essos, yes. Not all of it. The Dothraki aren't fond of her after Drogo's death. All of Slaver's Bay want's her dead. Many other parts are irritated and terrified that she'll come and destroy their city for her petulant ideology. She's really only popular with the smallest of the small, and those are slaves who don't really understand what it means to be free. Her own city of Meereen is largely opposed to her at this point as well.

 

The Unsullied? She didn't save them, she bought them. And they still do exactly what they were trained to do. They just have the luxury of having a 'name' now. Otherwise, they're still cockless dogs who die without a penis. That they do it for their master makes no difference.

 

Stannis outsmarted by Rhaella Targaryen? Where? She was ordered to flee to Dragonstone long before Stannis got out of Storm's End. He had nothing to do with her flight, on the Mad King's orders. By the time Stannis took Dragonstone, Rhaella was dead, and had been for some time. The two Targaryen children were since smuggled to Braavos before Stannis even had Dragonstone in sight on the Horizon. For god's sake, learn the lore man! 

 

As Dark Helmet says, I'm pretty sure you don't care about the story or lore if it makes Dany Sue look less awesome.

 

Joffrey had to go, wars weren't started to do it. It was subtle, executed perfectly without a single innocent dying. I suppose it says a lot about who is "failing". All Stannis has done is following his brother, who in the end led the all the nations to war. He could have hired assassins to kill the mad king. He wanted the throne, every Targaryen dead and his lover avenged. He didn't care how many had to die, because it was "honor". Shove this honor were it belongs.The intentions here were not noble, not even close. Keep your delusions about "nobility" of Baratheons. 

 

And getting extinct on 3rd generation with the last one committing kinslaying two times thus far, The Baratheon dynasty will go down so fast, the word "fail" will not be enough to describe it. 

 

People hated Robert for rebelling, but they got used to it. People hate change, that's what happening on Essos. Dany is playing nice with them, but its conditioning her into her new personality. Plus we don't know what's going to happen to her. Drogon has taken her (rumored since episode one) to a Valyrian ruin to discover her legacy. I think the discussion on what Dany will do will have to be put on a pause, Stannis has got more screen time and delving into story than Dany recently. I mean obviously, even if it wasn't the case, he had like 20 more years to act. 

 

So enjoy your GoT Anders, I think he is in his act 3 period now.

[DrBlingzle]

Joffrey had to go, wars weren't started to do it. It was subtle, executed perfectly without a single innocent dying.

Tyrion. 

 

Or at least that was the plan.

[Lulupab]

Tyrion. 

 

Or at least that was the plan.

 

I think he was at a wrong place and wrong time. It could have been anyone, they couldn't possibly know Joffrey would ridicule him by making him pour wine for him at the exact time of serving the cake. It could have been a servant, or even no one. It was the cleanest and best cunning action we've seen in the show. And no one still knows who actually did it. 

[DrBlingzle]

I think he was at a wrong place and wrong time. It could have been anyone, they couldn't possibly know Joffrey would ridicule him by making him pour wine for him at the exact time of serving the cake. It could have been a servant, or even no one. It was the cleanest and best cunning action we've seen in the show. And no one still knows who actually did it. 

Don't know if it was in the show but I think Littlefinger explains to Sansa that he deliberately hired the performing dwarfs because he knew it would ****** Tyrion off, make him angry at the King at make him look suspicious after the assassination. Littlefinger and Olenna needed to pin the murder on someone and Tyrion was the easiest one (already insulted and slapped the king, has little support, the queen regent already hates him, etc, etc).

 

I appreciate that killing Joffrey was probably the right thing to do, I just wish they picked someone else to frame...

[Lulupab]

Don't know if it was in the show but I think Littlefinger explains to Sansa that he deliberately hired the performing dwarfs because he knew it would ****** Tyrion off, make him angry at the King at make him look suspicious after the assassination. Littlefinger and Olenna needed to pin the murder on someone and Tyrion was the easiest one (already insulted and slapped the king, has little support, the queen regent already hates him, etc, etc).

 

I appreciate that killing Joffrey was probably the right thing to do, I just wish they picked someone else to frame...

 

Oh the slap, indeed it makes him look like guilty. But Tyrion is in good hands now, he was not appreciated in King's landing. In the show he seems like a fool who gets himself in trouble by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I totally forgot about the slap. It makes him look like very guilty.

[Steelcan]

Oh the slap, indeed it makes him look like guilty. But Tyrion is in good hands now, he was not appreciated in King's landing. In the show he seems like a fool who gets himself in trouble by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I totally forgot about the slap. It makes him look like very guilty.

>in good hands

>Dany flew off and left him, her boytoy, and the one person who ever gave her solid advice in a city filled with people trying to kill them

[Lulupab]

>in good hands
>Dany flew off and left him, her boytoy, and the one person who ever gave her solid advice in a city filled with people trying to kill them

 
What she could do exactly? I don't remember any none-Targaryen surviving such interaction with dragons. Leaving them behind was smarter since you know... Drogon. I think this should be discussed after 10th episode.

 

Tyrion seems to like it there. inb4 Varys makes his entrance on the next episode, mark my words.
 

[Steelcan]

 
What she could do exactly? I don't remember any none-Targaryen surviving such interaction with dragons. Leaving them behind was smarter since you know... Drogon. I think this should be discussed after 10th episode.

 

Tyrion seems to like it there. inb4 Varys makes his entrance on the next episode, mark my words.
 

......................................

[Lulupab]

......................................

 

Exactly. You may fill that when e10 comes out.

[Dark Helmet]

......................................

 

This is where you back away very slowly. Why do the stupid crazy ones always get the most devoted fans?

[Steelcan]

Exactly. You may fill that when e10 comes out.

you're a bigger fool than I thought

 

"A dragon is a dragon, red or black"

[God]

[Lulupab]

you're a bigger fool than I thought
 
"A dragon is a dragon, red or black"

 
Drogon is "crazier" if that's the right word, and you know it.

[Fast Jimmy]

Podrick Payne for the Iron Throne.

He can make prostitutes have sex with him for free. If that's not the key to ruling the Seven Kingdoms, I don't know what is.