11084 réponses à ce sujet

[justafan]

The Baratheons have a better chance, even with writer bias, of having their family restored than the Targs do at this point. Lines end, such is the way of things. 

 

I think they are both almost equally doomed.  Danaerys is possibly unable to conceive after Rhaego

Spoiler

Though this might no longer be the case as of the end of ADWD

 And Selyse seems incapable of siring a male heir for Stannis and is getting past childbearing age.  That leaves no heir for House Baratheon in the show, and a young girl as heir in the books, and given the last time a woman was set to inherit the throne led to the Dance of Dragons, her odds keeping the throne are next to none

Spoiler

and given the showrunner's statement for episode 9, it seems Martin will kill her off in the books as well, leaving no Baratheon heir in both continuities

while there is no heir for House Targaryen.

[mousestalker]

[Inquisitor Recon]

The only good Targaryen is a dead one as Robert would say. I'd rather have Littlefinger or Ramsay Bolton on the throne then another Targaryen.

[slimgrin]

I want to know if Davos will stay loyal to Stannis after learning about the sacrifice. He really liked Shireen. Also, Jorah touched Dany's hand, and I just remembered he has grey scale. 

[justafan]

 

I simply see more opposition to Stannis than I see to Daenerys. Stannis already has a pile of haters on Westeros but Dany will be new. Her family lands are in Baratheon hands, so no one will mind she getting them back. In fact Dragonstone has to be quite defenseless given the fact that Stannis has pulled vast majority of his men from there.

 

The problem I see here is that if Dany were to return to Westeros, having lived her life in Essos, she would be seen as a foreign invader.  She has not been raised in the same custom as the Westerosi, and she is a woman trying to conquer a society that is heavily male biased.  On top of that, Robert's Rebellion was not ancient history, and many if not most of the lords of Westeros witnessed the madness of her father, and viewed the usurpation as justice.

 

Despite Robert's ineptness, most consider his kingship as a vast improvement over the last living Targaryen ruler, and will continue to support the Baratheon dynasty in either the form of his "children" Joffrey and now Tommen, or in Stannis, rather than the daughter of the mad king who has never even stepped foot on the continent.

[TheRealJayDee]

The Baratheons have a better chance, even with writer bias, of having their family restored than the Targs do at this point. Lines end, such is the way of things. 

Yeah, and as we all know there's no better way to make sure end a line doesn't end than burning your only child and heir. 

[Br3admax]

 

The bias is not really against Baratheons and its not on the side of Targaryens, it's character based. Daenerys may be favored more, but she is not the first character and she won't be the last. All Bioware games have favored characters too and we are in a Bioware forum right now. I think by now you can see some resemblance between Leliana and Daenerys.

 

I simply see more opposition to Stannis than I see to Daenerys. Stannis already has a pile of haters on Westeros but Dany will be new. Her family lands are in Baratheon hands, so no one will mind she getting them back. In fact Dragonstone has to be quite defenseless given the fact that Stannis has pulled vast majority of his men from there.

 

We didn't witness her story for all this time for nothing. I think her going back to Westeros and events that transpire after that is inevitable at this point, but not her getting the iron throne back. We'll see how the show handles Aegon. As stated he has a much better chance for success and people believing him if he and Dany act together. 

 

Stannis, for the most part, is the only Baratheon, his daughter aside. Daenerys is the only Targaryen , even if I was talking about the Houses themselves, which I wasn't, there really isn't much of a difference. I'm not sure where the comparison to Leliana comes from, Leliana isn't a magical, inbred "godling" who hatches dragons and has merry adventures where she frees slaves and ends teh tyranneez. 

 

Dragonstone isn't rightfully Dany's anymore than the Iron Throne is, so any opposition to that will also be opposition to her taking the heir-apparents seat. 

 

As for the rest, even if Aegon is legitimate, which I'm 50/50 on, the line of Targaryen kings is just about done. I highly doubt either of them will take the throne in the end, just as I doubt Tommen will be King of the Seven Kingdoms. 

[Lulupab]

The problem I see here is that if Dany were to return to Westeros, having lived her life in Essos, she would be seen as a foreign invader.  She has not been raised in the same custom as the Westerosi, and she is a woman trying to conquer a society that is heavily male biased.  On top of that, Robert's Rebellion was not ancient history, and many if not most of the lords of Westeros witnessed the madness of her father, and viewed the usurpation as justice.

 

Despite Robert's ineptness, most consider his kingship as a vast improvement over the last living Targaryen ruler, and will continue to support the Baratheon dynasty in either the form of his "children" Joffrey and now Tommen, or in Stannis, rather than the daughter of the mad king who has never even stepped foot on the continent.

 

Who is "most". The Tyrells and Martells have no love for Lannisters or Stannis. And Arryns? They could side with anyone at this point, but they also have problems with Lannisters.

 

I was talking about restoration of house Targaryen, not Dany sitting on the throne.

 

And I'm talking about the show, so don't bring the books to this discussion.

[Some Geth]

The only good Targaryen is a dead one as Robert would say. I'd rather have Littlefinger or Ramsay Bolton on the throne then another Targaryen.

Yes we should all agree with the fat drunk who made things oh so great.

 

And we should put evil and/or crazy people on the throne.

 

Great ideas.

 

Yeah if we could get another Jaehaerys the 1st or Aegon the 5th that would be super cool.

[Lulupab]

 

 

 

Stannis, for the most part, is the only Baratheon, his daughter aside. Daenerys is the only Targaryen , even if I was talking about the Houses themselves, which I wasn't, there really isn't much of a difference. I'm not sure where the comparison to Leliana comes from, Leliana isn't a magical, inbred "godling" who hatches dragons and has merry adventures where she frees slaves and ends teh tyranneez. 

 

Dragonstone isn't rightfully Dany's anymore than the Iron Throne is, so any opposition to that will also be opposition to her taking the heir-apparents seat. 

 

As for the rest, even if Aegon is legitimate, which I'm 50/50 on, the line of Targaryen kings is just about done. I highly doubt either of them will take the throne in the end, just as I doubt Tommen will be King of the Seven Kingdoms. 

 

 

Leliana and Dany comparison comes from their quotes and idealism of course, and favoritism. 

 

Nothing is rightfully Stannis' anymore as well. He kept Dragonstone because its isolated. Storm end is long under control of kings army and if I'm not mistaken, Tyrells rule over it for the moment. 

 

Say Dany attacked right now and captured Dragonstone. Who would object? The only party getting damaged is Stannis and I don't see anyone objecting it. Unless of course Dany declares war on them, which isn't the topic right now since we are talking about restoration of house Targaryen.

 

Stannis' odds of getting on the throne is lower than Dany though, and you know it. The destruction of house Baratheon is also more likely due to what's happening on Westeros. Of course all this applies to the show. 

[TobiTobsen]

Who is "most". The Tyrells and Martells have no love for Lannisters or Stannis. And Arryns? They could side with anyone at this point, but they also have problems with Lannisters.

 

I was talking about restoration of house Targaryen, not Dany sitting on the throne.

 

And I'm talking about the show, so don't bring the books to this discussion.

 

If we leave the books aside, then the restoration of House Targaryen will be short-lived. With the only living member being female, her bloodline and house is done for anyway, should she even be able to conceive children. Kids being of the fathers dynasty and all that stuff.

[God]

The bias is not really against Baratheons and its not on the side of Targaryens, it's character based. Daenerys may be favored more, but she is not the first character and she won't be the last. All Bioware games have favored characters too and we are in a Bioware forum right now. I think by now you can see some resemblance between Leliana and Daenerys.

 

I simply see more opposition to Stannis than I see to Daenerys. Stannis already has a pile of haters on Westeros but Dany will be new. Her family lands are in Baratheon hands, so no one will mind she getting them back. In fact Dragonstone has to be quite defenseless given the fact that Stannis has pulled vast majority of his men from there.

 

We didn't witness her story for all this time for nothing. I think her going back to Westeros and events that transpire after that is inevitable at this point, but not her getting the iron throne back. We'll see how the show handles Aegon. As stated he has a much better chance for success and people believing him if he and Dany act together. 

 

Nobody outside the nobility really knows (or cares) about Daenerys at all. I don't see any resemblance between Dany Sue and Leliana at all. There's no connection there.

 

If that's what you see, you should probably get your eyes checked. Stannis having people against him does not mean the Daenerys has people for her. Her being 'new' doesn't mean that people will just up and accept her. Her 'family' lands? They aren't hers. They never were hers. She has nothing in Westeros. There is nothing in Westeros that belongs to her. And people will mind if she tries to take them back. That said, Dragonstone is also nearly worthless. Sure, the Tyrells and Lannisters might eventually try to annex it first, but what's the point? No one's there. 

[mousestalker]

If we leave the books aside, then the restoration of House Targaryen will be short-lived. With the only living member being female, her bloodline and house is done for anyway, should she even be able to conceive children. Kids being of the fathers dynasty and all that stuff.

You don't think there isn't some albino dude who wouldn't change his name for money and all the barbeque he can eat?

[DrBlingzle]

Out of curiosity, is anyone else worried that Dolorous Ed might not make it to the very end of this season?

 

Spoiler

The deaths of Grenn, and Selmy showed that the show writers are more than capable to kill of characters who are alive in the books. And the death of Ed could get the "shock value" the show writers pretty much strive for more than anything else at this point. It's possible he could get killed when everyone's trying to kill Jon (I still refuse to believe that Ed would join in with the shanking of Jon)

 

If Ed dies (or worse, betrays Jon) I'm through.

[God]

Leliana and Dany comparison comes from their quotes and idealism of course, and favoritism. 

 

Nothing is rightfully Stannis' anymore as well. He kept Dragonstone because its isolated. Storm end is long under control of kings army and if I'm not mistaken, Tyrells rule over it for the moment. 

 

Say Dany attacked right now and captured Dragonstone. Who would object? The only party getting damaged is Stannis and I don't see anyone objecting it. Unless of course Dany declares war on them, which isn't the topic right now since we are talking about restoration of house Targaryen.

 

Stannis' odds of getting on the throne is lower than Dany though, and you know it. The destruction of house Baratheon is also more likely due to what's happening on Westeros. Of course all this applies to the show. 

 

And its an improper comparison, because, sans their idealistic values (which are relative to their respective universes, so not actually anything that they hold in common), they really have nothing else. 

 

Actually, everything in Westeros' is 'rightfully' Stannis's holdings.

 

If Dany attacked Dragonstone (And that was it), I don't even think Stannis himself would care beyond what has been illegally seized from him.

[God]

Out of curiosity, is anyone else worried that Dolorous Ed might not make it to the very end of this season?

 

Spoiler

The deaths of Grenn, and Selmy showed that the show writers are more than capable to kill of characters who are alive in the books. And the death of Ed could get the "shock value" the show writers pretty much strive for more than anything else at this point. It's possible he could get killed when everyone's trying to kill Jon (I still refuse to believe that Ed would join in with the shanking of Jon)

 

If Ed dies (or worse, betrays Jon) I'm through.

 

I don't think Edd is on anyone's radar at all. He's a mauve shirt, and in no danger for the rest of the season. If they were going to kill him, they would have done it in Episode 8. Since they didn't, I'm fairly certain he's safe.

[Lulupab]

If that's what you see, you should probably get your eyes checked. Stannis having people against him does not mean the Daenerys has people for her. Her being 'new' doesn't mean that people will just up and accept her. Her 'family' lands? They aren't hers. They never were hers. She has nothing in Westeros. There is nothing in Westeros that belongs to her. And people will mind if she tries to take them back. That said, Dragonstone is also nearly worthless. Sure, the Tyrells and Lannisters might eventually try to annex it first, but what's the point? No one's there. 

 

Preach more with your absolute words like "never" and "nothing. If I were you I'd make myself ready for mental breakdown of Stannis dying/failing soon. 

 

Hardened Leliana: "They will see, or I will make them see". 

[God]

If we leave the books aside, then the restoration of House Targaryen will be short-lived. With the only living member being female, her bloodline and house is done for anyway, should she even be able to conceive children. Kids being of the fathers dynasty and all that stuff.

 

I think that's where Jon is going to come into play here.

[Lulupab]

I laugh at the notion of calling Targaryens incompetent when house Baratheon is result of a Targaryen raping a woman.         

[TobiTobsen]

I think that's where Jon is going to come into play here.

 

Could be, even though I don't like the whole R+L=J theory.

 

I was simply going by Lulupab's demand that we just use the show. AFAIK the theory is not even a thing in the show universe and the show only fandom because the Tower of Joy nevers gets much exposure.

[Dark Helmet]

If Dany attacked Dragonstone (And that was it), I don't even think Stannis himself would care beyond what has been illegally seized from him.

 

Well Dragonstone will be a bit more important soon... Dragonglass and all that.

[Dark Helmet]

I laugh at the notion of calling Targaryens incompetent when house Baratheon is result of a Targaryen raping a woman.         

 

Lulu are you legit crazy? Or has your Dany fanaticism really completely and irreversibly blinded you?

[justafan]

If we leave the books aside, then the restoration of House Targaryen will be short-lived. With the only living member being female, her bloodline and house is done for anyway, should she even be able to conceive children. Kids being of the fathers dynasty and all that stuff.

 

The Targaryens have a history of screwing the rules when it comes to marriage conventions.  If you're the Queen of Westeros by conquest, and say your child is a "Targaryen", all those who oppose are free to take up the issue with your dragons.

[Some Geth]

The Lannisters already did something like that with Joffrey Lydden.

[TobiTobsen]

The Targaryens have a history of screwing the rules when it comes to marriage conventions.  If you're the Queen of Westeros by conquest, and say your child is a "Targaryen", all those who oppose are free to take up the issue with your dragons.

 

Well... that would at least show the world on which side the coin landed at Daenerys birth, right?