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[Dark Helmet]

Well... that would at least show the world on which side the coin landed at Daenerys birth, right?

 

Three years later she'll be choosing fire as her champion and telling her Queensguard to BURN THEM ALL!!!!

[Lulupab]

Lulu are you legit crazy? Or has your Dany fanaticism really completely and irreversibly blinded you?

 

I'm mirroring God's attitude. The constant preaching with absolute words. You haven't see me done that. Post one post of me saying Daenerys is the true queen of westeros, all must kneel before here, etc etc... She is more desirable than Stannis, to me anyhow and I've have expressed that and that's it. On many occasions I've said that she doesn't have a bigger claim than Stannis.

 

The Baratheon line comes from a Targaryen bastard. If we are talking about greatness of houses, it needs to be acknowledged. Specially if a preacher does that.

[justafan]

Well... that would at least show the world on which side the coin landed at Daenerys birth, right?

 

Haha, well if it worked for Aegon the Conqueror, why not?  I personally am of the opinion that Dany has a little more of her father than most like to admit (especially given his madness came later in life).  But a little ruthlessness in Westeros is not necessarily a bad thing.  Oddly enough, I think it was Renly who saw succession laws the clearest, that being that they are what those with power make of it.

 

We see this time and again, The Dance with Dragons, Robert's Rebellion, and the War of 5 Kings, all saw someone outside the line of succession take the throne (though not necessarily keep it).  It was their armies that won them the throne.  If Dany want's to keep the Targaryen line alive, she will have to introduce the concept of matrilineal descent, either by being beloved enough that it is accepted, or through fear of reprisal if her will is rejected.

[Han Shot First]

 

We see this time and again, The Dance with Dragons, Robert's Rebellion, and the War of 5 Kings, all saw someone outside the line of succession take the throne (though not necessarily keep it).  It was their armies that won them the throne.  If Dany want's to keep the Targaryen line alive, she will have to introduce the concept of matrilineal descent, either by being beloved enough that it is accepted, or through fear of reprisal if her will is rejected.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Spoiler

Jon Snow is almost certainly Rhaegar Targaryen's son by Lyanna Stark, and when the Targaryens ruled Westeros they often went the route of the Ptolemies/Hapsburgs and married relatives.

[Some Geth]

Again.

 

The Lannisters already did the whole matrilineal marriage thing.

 

So I think Dany can get away with it if she wants.

[TobiTobsen]

Again.

 

The Lannisters already did the whole matrilineal marriage thing.

 

So I think Dany can get away with it if she wants.

 

That was more like the creation of House Baratheon. Dudes takes the entire House, name, sigil and everything from his wife after the last male heir passes away.

 

Not really matrilineal marriage, but I see your point.

[justafan]

Not necessarily.

 

Spoiler

Jon Snow is almost certainly Rhaegar Targaryen's son by Lyanna Stark, and when the Targaryens ruled Westeros they often went the route of the Ptolemies/Hapsburgs and married relatives.

 

True, especially given the fact that

Spoiler

In the books Jon is legitimized by Robb and his situation at the end of ADWD will likely release him from his Night's Watch vows

 

There is also the option to

Spoiler

marry Young Griff/Aegon VI, despite the destinct possibility of him not really being a Targaryen or even worse, being a Blackfyre, such a union would legitimize his claim at being a Targaryen, especially given Dany's dragons and known trueborn status.  The only downside is that such a union would alienate the Martells, the only true Targaryen loyalist left on the continent, as they would be left out of the succession promised to them.

[Some Geth]

Well in the Baratheon case Orys took everything but the name Durrandon.

 

The Joffrey "Lannister" was a Lydden.

 

I mean with these houses going on for thousands years there had to be a few times where there was just women left.

 

So it makes sense to me.

[Han Shot First]

Again.

 

The Lannisters already did the whole matrilineal marriage thing.

 

So I think Dany can get away with it if she wants.

 

She could, but its a less sound plan

Spoiler

than just marrying Jon Snow and sticking with patrilineal descent.

to avoid any heirs being challenged by their quarrelsome vassals.

 

Sexism exists in Westeros.

[Some Geth]

Oh sure.

 

I already think that might happen.

 

Or him being king at least.

 

And yes sexism exists but there have been queens and lady lords.

 

Hard to say what their rules were like since there is not much info on them.

[Milan92]

I want Jon Snow to end as king of Westeros.

But then he would know stuff...... The fact that he knows nothing has kept him alive so far.

So I guess that would be bad. :S

[Dark Helmet]

I want Jon Snow to end as king of Westeros.

But then he would know stuff...... The fact that he knows nothing has get him alive so far.

So I guess that would be bad. :S

 

Nah he'll just learn that he knows even less than he thought in the grand scheme of things.

 

Making him safe forever.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Yes we should all agree with the fat drunk who made things oh so great.

 

And we should put evil and/or crazy people on the throne.

 

Great ideas.

 

Yeah if we could get another Jaehaerys the 1st or Aegon the 5th that would be super cool.

The "fat drunk" who destroyed the oh-so-great Prince Rhaegar at the Trident.

 

Aerys II and Rhaegar earned the fate they brought upon their house. Good riddance to whole lot of those crazy incestuous bastards.

[Han Shot First]

Robert's Rebellion was entirely justified, even if Robert proved to be better at winning a crown than ruling a kingdom. Aerys was batshit insane and a bloody tyrant. 

[TobiTobsen]

Robert's Rebellion was entirely justified, even if Robert proved to be better at winning a crown than ruling a kingdom. Aerys was batshit insane and a bloody tyrant. 

 

He... I mean who thought that putting a dynasty, that comes with a 50% chance of being batshit insane for every member, in charge would be a great idea?

 

Wait... they did that themselves? And enforced it with death by dragons?

 

*cough* All hail House Targaryen!

[Some Geth]

Oh sure the Mad King was mad and the real problem here.

 

But to say every Trag is bad, crazy and incestuous or that Rhaegar's kids being killed is okay is really stupid and horrible.

 

Every one of these houses has had good and bad at some point.

 

I mean Aegon the 5th tried to bring in human rights laws.

[God]

I laugh at the notion of calling Targaryens incompetent when house Baratheon is result of a Targaryen raping a woman.         

 

So... Targaryen cruelty and brutality? Either way, it's the Targaryen's fault. A Baratheon doesn't choose his parents. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

But to say every Trag is bad, crazy and incestuous or that Rhaegar's kids being killed is okay is really stupid and horrible.

 

Every one of these houses has had good and bad at some point.

 

I mean Aegon the 5th tried to bring in human rights laws.

So "only" 50% of them could be classified as crazy and bad. Still not much of a selling point.

 

It doesn't matter how "horrible" Rhaegar's kids being killed was, all that matters is if it was the smart thing to do, and for Tywin it was. I highly doubt he ordered the Mountain to do it, be he knew what the Mountain was and what would happen.

[Fast Jimmy]

So... Targaryen cruelty and brutality? Either way, it's the Targaryen's fault. A Baratheon doesn't choose his parents.

And a Targaryean chooses their cousin. They choose them all night long...

[Han Shot First]

Oh sure the Mad King was mad and the real problem here.

 

But to say every Trag is bad, crazy and incestuous or that Rhaegar's kids being killed is okay is really stupid and horrible.

 

Every one of these houses has had good and bad at some point.

 

I mean Aegon the 5th tried to bring in human rights laws.

 

I think any family ruling over Westeros is likely to produce its share of evil tyrants. Every country in our real world history that has had a monarchy for any length of time  has had them. Its the inherent flaw with that sytem.. Your monarch is rules solely trough birthright and short of some other royal or noble overthrowing him/her, you're stuck with whomever wears the crown. They rule for life.

 

Had Robert produced trueborn heirs and his dynasty lasted as long as the Targaryens, no doubt it would have produced its own share of competent, incompetent, magnanimous, and tyrannical rulers. (Robert was magnanimous but incompetent)

[Dark Helmet]

And a Targaryean chooses their cousin. They choose them all night long...

 

They need to accept that consistent wincest is bad for the dynasty. Keep it infrequent people.

[Inquisitor Recon]

"wincest"

Nope.

[Lulupab]

I'm still intrigued that there is zero mention of a female crazy Targaryen.

 

It could be coincidence, or something genetic.

[Some Geth]

So "only" 50% of them could be classified as crazy and bad. Still not much of a selling point.

 

It doesn't matter how "horrible" Rhaegar's kids being killed was, all that matters is if it was the smart thing to do, and for Tywin it was. I highly doubt he ordered the Mountain to do it, be he knew what the Mountain was and what would happen.

Out of the 17 Targ kings most were great, good or just normal. And from another point of view even a crazy one like Baelor ending up doing some good what with the Dorne stuff. Only 4 of them were actually pretty bad and/or crazy. And again anyone from any house could end up as bad as the Mad King.

 

As for the kids being killed? I don't see the point. Ruling through baby Aegon or keeping him around until he gets older and force him to take the Black and having Rhaenys marry Robert's first born son seem just as smart and not as horrible to me.

 

But Tywin wanting them dead so that was that because Tywin is a horrible evil person.

[Some Geth]

I think any family ruling over Westeros is likely to produce its share of evil tyrants. Every country in our real world history that has had a monarchy for any length of time  has had them. Its the inherent flaw with that sytem.. Your monarch is rules solely trough birthright and short of some other royal or noble overthrowing him/her, you're stuck with whomever wears the crown. They rule for life.

Yes that's why it's a pretty sh!tty style of government.

 

Makes for fun and cool stories tho!