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[Iakus]

So "only" 50% of them could be classified as crazy and bad. Still not much of a selling point.

 

It doesn't matter how "horrible" Rhaegar's kids being killed was, all that matters is if it was the smart thing to do, and for Tywin it was. I highly doubt he ordered the Mountain to do it, be he knew what the Mountain was and what would happen.

I think it absolutely wasn't, and if he could go back in time he'd prevent it.

 

I see the deaths of Rhaegar's kids as one of the two things that kept Tywin from the Iron Throne.  The other being the arrival of Ned Stark (if only Rhaegar had held out a little longer!)

 

WIth the kids as hostages (and perhaps wedded to Lannisters later) , he could have kept Dorne at bay at the very least, and perhaps forrged an alliance with them.

 

 Lannister colors were flying over the Red Keep when Ned arrived, recall.

[Inquisitor Recon]

But Tywin wanting them dead so that was that because Tywin is a horrible evil person.

Tywin is not a horrible evil person. Cold and calculating? Yes. But evil? No. If he did arrange it so Rhaegar's children were killed, he did it to prove his loyalty to Robert's cause, or at least he makes the claim to Tyrion.

 

"We had come late to Robert's cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert's relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar's children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children."

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm still intrigued that there is zero mention of a female crazy Targaryen.

It could be coincidence, or something genetic.

Women are crazy by nature. So it's hard to identify the source of the crazy as incest or just normal double X chromosome.

[Some Geth]

Tywin is not a horrible evil person.

Tysha says hi.

 

He still had kids killed for no good reason.

 

Oh and letting Gregor on the riverlands makes him a monster.

 

At that point he for sure knows what Gregor can do.

 

So yeah horrible evil person.

[Fast Jimmy]

Tysha says hi.

Still had kids killed for no good reason.

Oh and letting Gregor on the riverlands makes him a monster.

At that point he for sure knows what Gregor can do.

So yeah horrible evil person.

There are volumes written on the definition of evil, or whether it truly even exists in man.

Tywin used every tool available to secure the power for himself and his family. That makes him ruthless and cruel, but are those traits truly evil when employed in the service of a worthwhile cause? Without Lannister wealth, Robert's kingdom would have quickly fallen apart, destroying countless lives and further fracturing the world. Did having the Mountain rape and murder a princess and her children save countless lives, in the big picture? Do horrific acts that prevent even larger, more horrific acts evil?

[HiroVoid]

There are volumes written on the definition of evil, or whether it truly even exists in man.

Tywin used every tool available to secure the power for himself and his family. That makes him ruthless and cruel, but are those traits truly evil when employed in the service of a worthwhile cause? Without Lannister wealth, Robert's kingdom would have quickly fallen apart, destroying countless lives and further fracturing the world. Did having the Mountain rape and murder a princess and her children save countless lives, in the big picture? Do horrific acts that prevent even larger, more horrific acts evil?

None of those answered Tysha.

[Isichar]

There are volumes written on the definition of evil, or whether it truly even exists in man.

Tywin used every tool available to secure the power for himself and his family. That makes him ruthless and cruel, but are those traits truly evil when employed in the service of a worthwhile cause? Without Lannister wealth, Robert's kingdom would have quickly fallen apart, destroying countless lives and further fracturing the world. Did having the Mountain rape and murder a princess and her children save countless lives, in the big picture? Do horrific acts that prevent even larger, more horrific acts evil?

 

To be fair I don't think Tywin was trying to do what was best for the realm so much as what was best for him though. Sure some good came out of it but in the long run so did a lot of bad.

[HiroVoid]

I'm still intrigued that there is zero mention of a female crazy Targaryen.

 

It could be coincidence, or something genetic.

It's more likely that since it's the males/kings that rule, they're the ones more noticed and capable of damage.

[Some Geth]

What is the worthwhile cause here? Tywin only cares about himself and his family. He would kill way more people if it meant he would come out on the top.

 

And he has people killed and raped for petty spiteful reasons. And no it didn't help anything by doing that.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The ''previously on'' segment for this evening's episode has Benjen in it.

Consider me interested.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

The ''previously on'' segment for this evening's episode has Benjen in it.

Consider me interested.

 

THE HYPE TRAIN IS LEAVING THE STATION 

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I remember somebody (I think it was Podrick's actor) saying this episode is going to break the internet. 

 

I'm sort of expecting Lady Stoneheart and Benjen to show up all at once now...

[Dermain]

I'm still intrigued that there is zero mention of a female crazy Targaryen.

 

It could be coincidence, or something genetic.

 

Well, seeing as the Targaryen women are not allowed to rule it wouldn't matter if they were crazy. They would have absolutely no power to show their craziness to the world. Since the ASoIaF universe is heavily sexist they wouldn't have even been mentioned in histories. 

 

This of course also ignores all of the hints provided by Martin that Dany may also be crazy.

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

 

For the watch. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

THE HYPE TRAIN IS LEAVING THE STATION

I am now picturing a bus crashing into the set and out spill Benjen, Stoneheart, Aegon, JonCon, Arianne, Victarion, Euron, the Kindly Man and all the other characters who were cut by the show and messing up all the writer's plans. Would be glorious.

[God]

None of those answered Tysha.

 

Tywin hated Tyrion. He's not perfect.

 

As well, he legitimately was also trying to teach his son a couple of lessons. One of which is that he is a Lannister. And a Lannister will not be consorting with the peasantry. 

 

It's not evil.

[Some Geth]

It's not evil.

Just like slavery right?

 

lol

[Inquisitor Recon]

Tysha says hi.

 

He still had kids killed for no good reason.

 

Oh and letting Gregor on the riverlands makes him a monster.

 

At that point he for sure knows what Gregor can do.

 

So yeah horrible evil person.

The only reason for Tysha's fate was because it wasn't in the Lannister's best interests for Tyrion to go off any marry some random commoner. Otherwise Tywin had no interest in her. Tywin hated Tyrion and that hatred manifested itself in many ways but he still saw Tyrion as having some role to play in the future of House Lannister.

 

Tywin had good reasons for those kids killed, you can argue that it may have been a poor decision in the long-term but at the time it proved his loyalty to Robert.

 

War is monstrous business. Gregor Clegane was nothing more than a tool to Tywin to be used and discarded in whatever way helped House Lannister. All of the destruction he caused damaged the Riverlands ability to sustain a war effort. It was a sound action from a strategic perspective and it was the best use of his "talents".

 

What is the worthwhile cause here? Tywin only cares about himself and his family. He would kill way more people if it meant he would come out on the top.

 

And he has people killed and raped for petty spiteful reasons. And no it didn't help anything by doing that.

Just about everybody only cares about themselves and sometimes their family. Tywin had a particular focus on his legacy and the future of House Lannister which is more noble than could be said of many people.

 

Tywin had people killed and raped in order to secure the future of his House. People who are truly evil like Gregor Clegane kill and rape for sport and are no better than wild animals.

[God]

What is the worthwhile cause here? Tywin only cares about himself and his family. He would kill way more people if it meant he would come out on the top.

 

And he has people killed and raped for petty spiteful reasons. And no it didn't help anything by doing that.

 

In a Machiavellian sense, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I'd rather be on top than the next fellow. I'll pick me every time. 

 

He never has anyone really raped for spiteful reasons though. And he certainly never raped anyone himself.

[Isichar]

In a Machiavellian sense, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I'd rather be on top than the next fellow. I'll pick me every time. 

 

He never has anyone really raped for spiteful reasons though. And he certainly never raped anyone himself.

 

Such a saint he is

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

 

For the watch. 

 

my body is not ready

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

I am now picturing a bus crashing into the set and out spill Benjen, Stoneheart, Aegon, JonCon, Arianne, Victarion, Euron, the Kindly Man and all the other characters who were cut by the show and messing up all the writer's plans. Would be glorious.

 

And then Arya will kill Meryn Trant, Jaqen will get pissed, and when Arya explains that he killed her dancing master, Jaqen's face will change to Syrio and he'll be all "Not today..."

 

and then the internet will officially explode

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

anyone else looking forward to...

 

Spoiler

 

Cersei's walk of shame? 

 

I assume this track is for it and it gives me goosebumps all by itself.

 

 

How fitting it's the tune of The Rains of Castamere.

 

[KaiserShep]

So far things are playing out as I expected with the "Mannis".

 

Tywin hated Tyrion. He's not perfect.

 

As well, he legitimately was also trying to teach his son a couple of lessons. One of which is that he is a Lannister. And a Lannister will not be consorting with the peasantry. 

 

It's not evil.

 

I will say this, the lesson that "Our family is a gaggle of raging pr*cks" is a particularly valuable one. 

[Fast Jimmy]

To be fair I don't think Tywin was trying to do what was best for the realm so much as what was best for him though. Sure some good came out of it but in the long run so did a lot of bad.

 

No disagreement there.