11084 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

So.

That happened.

Check out Wikipedia for full and digestible length plot spoilers of all books. That's what I did. Kinda glad I did actually - not sure how I would have reacted to Ned's plot development if I hadn't.

[GodWood]

Addai67 wrote...
This guy OtakuAssemble has been doing unspoiled (as in, unspoiled by reading the books) reviews of each episode, and his review of tonight's gives a flavor of the rage.  He's a bit emo, be warned.  lolol... uh, and NS for profanity.

Sometimes I just don't get people.

It's these kind of 'shock' moments that make the series great.
Even now thinking of the Red Wedding brings me mixed feelings of ecstatic glee and pure horror.
And I love it!

Regardless though his little hissy fit did make me laugh, way to be 15 years late man.

EDIT: Just got to him talking about Drogo, am now crying with laughter.

Modifié par GodWood, 13 juin 2011 - 08:45 .

[Shirosaki17]

A question about the battle. Was Tyrion knocked out or what actually happened in the book. I just don't see him fighting in a real battle.

Also, one thing I hate about TV these days, is how they always keep characters around that need to go. It's because they want to let the actor keep their job, but I think it ruins the shows when they keep characters around too long just for the sake of it. Also, too many happy endings.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 13 juin 2011 - 09:00 .

[Chromie]

Shirosaki17 wrote...
 keep characters around too long just for the sake of it. Also, too many happy endings.

Well...your in for a shock with Game of Thrones 

[Shirosaki17]

Ringo12 wrote...

Shirosaki17 wrote...
 keep characters around too long just for the sake of it. Also, too many happy endings.

Well...your in for a shock with Game of Thrones 

yeah, maybe, but killing off Ned was a breath of fresh air. Plus I've kind of read a summary of all the characters and know what happens for the most part.

That review video Addai posted was awesome. I can't believe how passionate that guy is. He gets so emotional over a TV show. Although, it's because of people like him who can't handle main characters dying that we get such ****ty stories in TV.

[Maria13]

I love that reviewer... If I were a teacher he would be an absolute DELIGHT to have in the class...

[Seagloom]

TJPags wrote...

speaking of Shae, did anyone else feel they were making her too . . .mysterious? As in, her character seems more significant than she should?

I was okay with Shae. They are probably trying to expand her character a bit since she does factor heavily into Tyrion's life awhile. I found her accent a bit weird, I suppose, but that is mainly because I was too used to faux English.

Addai67 wrote...

This guy OtakuAssemble has been doing unspoiled (as in, unspoiled by reading the books) reviews of each episode, and his review of tonight's gives a flavor of the rage. He's a bit emo, be warned. lolol... uh, and NS for profanity.

A bit? Yegods. I will be nice here and just say he was tremendously childish. ASoIaF is not even the most tragic story I read. The way this guy ranted it was like someone killed his favorite pet. Maybe I cannot relate because Eddard's death did not make me *that* emotional in the books or on the show. I was sad, of course, but I came no where near crying.

I felt a lot sadder after a certain Robb and Catelyn moment later in the story than here. None of this surprises me, though. The one thing I will give this reviewer is they did set Ned up as protagonist in the marketing and overall pace of the show. I knew some viewers would go ballistic following his death for that reason alone. In the books he felt like another PoV character rather than the story's hero. I remember being told before reading ASoIaF that I would be shocked. Anyone could die and anything could happen. Keeping that in mind might have diminished my shock.

On an unrelated note, it was nice to see the Twins added to the clockwork intro. Okay, so season one is almost over. I can't wait for season two. Bring on Melisandre and Stannis! Whee!

[LTD]

FUUFUU!1!!2!

OMFoldGodsandthenew.. that was  just too cheap and stripped  for it's own good!  I can't believe we didn't get even a glimpse of EITHER  battle. Surely Whispering Woods at least would have offered a stage for some very budget friendly arrangement. Something similar to Catelyn's POV in book perhaps. But noooo. Very unsatisfying! If somebody who has never read the book paid a visit to fridge at wrong  time he just missed half of a goddamned civil war. I'm so angry I have milk dripping from corner of my mouth and I don't even care!


Since having  a Game of Thrones scene where few dozen guys beat each other with sticks   would apparently completely and instantly  destroy the  entire HBO, I wonder why they didn't simply stay awayfrom both of the battles. Maybe they could have  pushed the battles ahead some, have them take place " in between the seasons"  so to speak. It certainly wouldn't have been any more anti-climatic than this. Perhaps that way we would have gotten little bit less gut wrenching *****SCENE MISSING*****-vibe.

 Why did scenes among Tyvin's host include the whole vanguard+wildlings sub plot? Since they actually axed the entire battle and related tactics, viewer  has no idea why Tyvin saw it as a desirable thing to do in first place. They give Rob some 3 mins of screen time to  gather his banners and establish himself as lord, they spend 5 mins to scenes that revolve around vanguards of nonexistent battle. It ain't right is all:l IMO Tyvin&Tyrion  realizing Rob went other way could have used bit larger an OH **** - reaction. I was sure last week's act of mercy to the Lannister scout would have proven to be some cunning ploy or have some significance somehow but eh.

With Riverrun not being build for season I, whole ordeal with Jaime's host has been very distant and disconnected from everything we actually see on screen. Since we got neither proper prelude nor a battle in Whispering Woods, there is absolutely no context to what happens there. Why did they end up fighting there? How did they surprise Jaime's host? How did they even find him? What was he doing in that forest? "Lol look mom  we found a kingslayer from the woods:D" After witnessing the " battles" of episode 9, surely nobody expects to see the siege of Rivverrun being lifted..so yeah, very disconnected. If I hadn't read the books I'm sure I'd have no clue wtf Rob is doing, why he fought where he did and why it was him who won the battle.

Seagloom wrote...


It was disappointing that we saw
*nothing* of the major battles. I expected we might at least see
highlights or something, but there was nothing. Wow. It makes me wonder
how the heck they plan to do "A Clash of Kings". I had a sliver of hope
before. Now that hope has been chewed up and spat into a pile of gutter
trash.

Maybe we'll get 10 hrs of black&white  footage of  GRRM sitting on a rocking chair and reading the book outloud
while sipping hot chocolate. At least amount of major fight scenes  would remain equal:l

Generally speaking HBO has done great job  with their very own scenes and additions. I too somehow really  liked
the truth or dare biz of this episode. I really loved the changes they  made for Jaime vs Ed Stark -scene few weeks back..That one sugar punch  in the end told couple of dozen pages worth about Kingslayer's  character<3 To be fair maybe he shouldn't be that ...honor driven  this early on in series but hay.

Was almost painful to watch the beheading. Was very well build scene indeed.  Poor Sean, always ending  up with  ****tiest of fates in fantasy epics. Maybe there could have  been bit more "WTF?!"ing among the small council, just to underline  pretty much everyone immediately saw it as a dumb and bad call by Joffrey. I wonder what it felt like to watch that scene completely unspoiled by books!

Shae was very different to what I expected/imagined.. good actor though

Modifié par LTD, 13 juin 2011 - 11:32 .

[Seagloom]

Ah, LTD. Your rant did not disappoint. I have to agree with most of what you wrote. Although I am not eager to see battles play out for their own sake, I think the way they were handled here was poor to the point of an anticlimax. You hit the nail on the head with your comment about Tywin and Tyrion's surprise moment. I really, *really* wanted a scene where the enemy camps find out Robb played them with an unexpected feint. Like I wrote before the episode aired, it was supposed to be Robb's crowning moment of awesome. We would find out Tywin underestimated Robb, and that he was much cleverer and capable than anyone realized.

I should not be surprised. Robb's development has been shortchanged throughout the season. We never get a sense he is an insecure kid learning how to step up and become a leader. So it follows we get a half-assed climax after he adapts to his new role.

If I have one significant criticism about this series, it is that it moves too fast for the sheer volume of material that needs coverage. I know including everything from the books is impossible, but they are skipping waaay too much. This book needed another five episodes. It was especially bad in "The Pointy End" and "Baelor". Seriously, as much as I loved these episodes on the whole they were insanely compressed to the point that if you blinked, you probably missed something important. (Yes, I am being hyperbolic.)

As far as the beheading reaction goes, Cersei was shown freaking out. That was something at least. I hate Joffrey. Little arrogant twerp.

[KenKenpachi]

Well you can't expect much from a budget TV show. Ah well makes me doubt they'll do it for the other books.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah so the fool finally died.

I never could believe I could hate a character played by Sean Bean...but eh having read the books long before the series even came out all I can say is Ned deserved what he got. Honor has no value in politics...and his honor got him killed, a reviewer once said that he was playing checkers on a chessboard and expecting everyone to do the same...and even his final moments he still stays true to that.

Joeffrey's decision....whether or not he was thinking of anything more then giving the peasants a show ( though I doubt the boy can even think ).....was actually a hell lot more sound then what Cersei was planning. What freeing one of the greatest military commanders and allowing him to run north in the hope that he would keep his word..foolish.

The wise course would have been to keep Ned imprisoned.

[Seagloom]

Joffrey was being a vengeful little snot. Cersei's decision would have stopped Robb's war effort; since his only reason for waging it was to save his father and sisters. Had she found out Jaime was captured in time, she could have alternatively traded Eddard for his freedom. All Joffrey's action accomplished was plunging the kingdoms into years of violent conflict. Like Varys said to Ned earlier in the episode, a tame wolf is preferable to a dead one. Ned, being the honorable man he is, would not have made waves after agreeing to give a false confession for his family's safety.

@KenKenpachi - I'm not expecting a Peter Jackson caliber Hollywood production. I'm just tired of seeing some of the most poignant character building moments bypassed. This is not the first time they did it. It is, however, the clumsiest instance of it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 13 juin 2011 - 02:03 .

[Eski.Moe]

Joffrey's move was dumb. No matter how many ways you try and spin it or however you try to justify your Ned hate. With that chip, he could've ensured the loyalty or at least halted the war but he made a massive blunder. It would've helped him tremendously in the fight against Stannis and Renly.

In any case, the moment broke my heart all over again. Even if I knew it was coming. Pretty heavy stuff.

[Costin_Razvan]

You assume it was going to work because Ned would have kept his word, well sure if Ned was going to be a big a fool as ever.

Say what you will, I personally doubt the Starks were going to stand down either way.

[Seagloom]

Ned was as big a fool as ever right up to the end. Of course it would have worked! The man was honorable to a fault. Renly and Stannis would have still made their bids for the throne, but the Starks could pull out of the mess. Joffrey guaranteed their involvement by killing Ned. He turned their rescue operation into a quest for vengeance. The only one I can see who might want to keep fighting is Catelyn, and she was not in charge.

[Addai]

@Costin, they made a point via Varys to say that the same foolish stubborn honor that Ned showed elsewhere was what Cersei was counting on.  It was a risk, but the alternative was to see the entire kingdom plunged into further war, as in fact happens.  Ned looking out over that crowd, I could only imagine he was thinking less "I'm ****ed" as "you're all ****ed, as of this moment."  Which in fact they are.

I don't have any disappointment at all re. Robb's development or the battle scenes.  I thought they were just what they needed to be, no more and no less.  They could have emphasized his inexperience more early on, but I think the viewer takes that for granted.  But as I mentioned earlier, I care more about character development than epic scenes.

As for viewer rage over Ned, I do understand it.  I was not thinking kind thoughts about the series when I reached that point in the books.  I was still hooked, obviously, but I started to think "every single person is going to die, they're all going to die," and it's hard to invest emotionally in characters if you think none of them are going to be around.  I assumed GoT was the end and we would skip ahead to an entirely different set of characters.  Then GRRM actually pleasantly surprised me by continuing the story right where GoT left off, and keeping some of my favorite characters around, to the point that I got complacent by the time... well.

By this time in the story, you're starting to realize that there are no good guys, and the only one who remotely qualifies is Ned.  To have him taken out is a shock.  I definitely can understand the sentiment of "**** you all."

Modifié par Addai67, 13 juin 2011 - 03:07 .

[Brockololly]

TJPags wrote...

speaking of Shae, did anyone else feel they were making her too . . .mysterious? As in, her character seems more significant than she should?

Yeah....having read through A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords over the past month or so, the Shae/Tyrion stuff got old quickly, especially in CoK. I understand why its there, but in the book anyway it got fairly redundant, so I hope they don't overdo it in the show just for the sake of having more sexposition, especially when the show seems fairly rushed with events as is.

Seagloom wrote...
I remember being told before reading ASoIaF that I would be shocked. Anyone could die and anything could happen. Keeping that in mind might have diminished my shock.

Yeah, the thing with Ned's death though that always strikes me is that its the one time he doesn't do the purely honorable thing by confessing and yet he gets screwed over anyway. Cause really, its Joffrey screwing everything up- even to the dismay of Cersei, which I liked how they showed even her getting flustered when Joff went rogue. I hope that little twerp chokes on some pie:wizard:

Seagloom wrote...
Although I am not eager to see battles play out for their own sake, I  think the way they were handled here was poor to the point of an  anticlimax. You hit the nail on the head with your comment about Tywin  and Tyrion's surprise moment. I really, *really* wanted a scene where  the enemy camps find out Robb played them with an unexpected feint. Like I wrote before the episode aired, it was supposed to be Robb's crowning moment of awesome. We would find out Tywin underestimated Robb, and  that he was much cleverer and capable than anyone realized.

It really reminds me of how big battles were handled in Rome. Mainly, that they weren't handled most of the time and you simply saw the aftermath with a bunch of dead people on the field. But even how this episode played out, its never really clear what the heck is going on from a military/strategic point of view. You really have little clue where the armies are or what they're doing. Its like magically, Robb got into a battle and all of a sudden has Jaime captive.

Maybe part of that is due to how they're ignoring Riverrun this season, and Whispering Wood was basically Robb catching Jaime off guard as the Lannisters were going after Riverrun.


Anyway, it was a very nice episode- I liked how they seemed to have more wide shots of the surroundings, like with the Twins to give a better sense of scale. Yet of course, they don't even remotely show any battle scenes. Considering how the series goes from here on out, if I have one major concern its going to be how they handle the more supernatural stuff and the larger scale of armies and battles.

If anything, GoT is the easiest of the books to faithfully adapt as its pretty straight forward with not much in the way of battles or things requiring CG or tons of special effects. From stuff that will end up happening at the Wall and beyond, to Bran's story, the direwolves greater importance, to Blackwater, to everything with Dany and how certain characters change their appearances....I  worry that either the CG/special effects/makeup will look super cheap or they'll end up skipping over that stuff, which really would be to the detriment of the show. But I suppose we will get a taste of that in the next episode.


I am wondering how they'll cast certain characters though for Season 2. Already they've got characters missing from Season 1 who will (probably?) have a bigger role going forward.

You figure for Season 2  new characters they'll need:

-Roose Bolton
-Edmure Tully
-The Blackfish
-Hoster Tully
-Asha Greyjoy
-Balon Greyjoy
-Jojen and Meera Reed
-Hot Pie and Lommy Greenhands
-Jaqen H'ghar
-Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions
-Ygritte
-Qhorin Halfhand
-Craster
-Dolorous Edd and the Night's Watch guys
-Davos
-Melisandre
-Stannis
-Margaery Tyrell
-Brienne

And I'm probably forgetting some too.

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 juin 2011 - 03:44 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Here's hoping they increase the budget in S2 so we can finally have some battles.

Addai: Cersei is a vain fool, as you well know. She is scared ****less of the Stannis that she is ignoring that the north can be a greater threat. Hell her plan was to risk setting lose the most competent military commander Westeros has ( I do believe Stannis is capable, but Ned was fighting there side by side with Robert in all the major battles of the Rebelion ). WAAY too big a risk, since if Ned had gone free and broken his promise then he would have supported Stannis for king...and since you've read the books I guess you know how that particular line of thought would have ended for Cersei ( hint her head on a pike ).

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 juin 2011 - 03:52 .

[KenKenpachi]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Ah so the fool finally died.

I never could believe I could hate a character played by Sean Bean...but eh having read the books long before the series even came out all I can say is Ned deserved what he got. Honor has no value in politics...and his honor got him killed, a reviewer once said that he was playing checkers on a chessboard and expecting everyone to do the same...and even his final moments he still stays true to that.

Joeffrey's decision....whether or not he was thinking of anything more then giving the peasants a show ( though I doubt the boy can even think ).....was actually a hell lot more sound then what Cersei was planning. What freeing one of the greatest military commanders and allowing him to run north in the hope that he would keep his word..foolish.

The wise course would have been to keep Ned imprisoned.

Well gee thanks for that, now I see why the world sucks so much, and why pretty much everyone envolved in politics todays is a sap sucking lying snake, that would sell his own mother to get ahead. Nevermind silly little things like "Duty, Serving the people, or giving a damn"  No wonder we have so many military coups or revolts and huge debt over stupid things. Or the fact the world in general is crap now and is pretty much self assured of destruction short of the rise of another Ghengis Khan. And nevermind some of the best leaders in history were very honorable people. But yeah lets keep the broken self serving ways at the expense of humanity alive.

 Oh well enough of that.  Funny thing is I would have suspected him of keeping his word, and if he didn't I'ld burn his whole region to the ground. Don't start none, won't be none. Start some, then get ready for everything you hold to burn. If one thing is common from the series and in general is the fact. "the Game" is not one anyone, can, or does win.

Honestly I'm hoping ole Blondy will return from the sea and take over the region, least she's not a jack ass. Or that pretty much all the SOB's still alive face the creatures from the north, or a peasant Revolt throws the rulling families into the sea. Peasants of the world Untie and throw off the corrupt Landowners!!
 
<< >> Lulz Communism.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 13 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[horacethegrey]

 Well, saw the end. Knew it was coming. But it was still a painful scene to watch. As much as I thought that Ned Stark was a fool, he did not deserve to die like that. Joffrey is a ******. Where's Uncle Tyrion to give him a brand new ****slapping? 

While we're on that note, Sean Bean acted his ass out on that scene, yet I still preferred his farewell as Boromir 11 years ago over his exit as Ned Stark. Still , bravo Mr. Bean. Bravo

While I thought this episode was largely excellent, I was disappointed by the lack of full scale medieval combat. Then again though, this is a TV production, so I doubt they have the budget to film a full scale melee like we saw in the LOTR movies or Braveheart. Hope this changes in season 2. Still that scene with Tyrion in the battle made for some great comedy.

Modifié par horacethegrey, 13 juin 2011 - 04:01 .

[Costin_Razvan]

And nevermind some of the best leaders in history were very honorable people

Name them. Talk all you want but bring facts to the table.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 13 juin 2011 - 04:01 .

[KenKenpachi]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And nevermind some of the best leaders in history were very honorable people

Name them. Talk all you want but bring facts to the table.

Hmm I can name several actully, want me to send it via PM, or type it here with reasons of why?

[Costin_Razvan]

Post them here, the series is about politics anyway.

[Addai]

@Brock: Hot Pie and Lommy have already been cast for season one- I am assuming we'll see them in the final.

There is fan rumor that the Blackfish and Dolorous Ed may be cut and their roles shifted to others.  I am worried that the Reeds will also be cut and their roles taken over by Osha.

Re Shae's accent- Sibel Kekilli is Turkish, it's her natural accent.

The Twins/Trident scenery is so gorgeous!! I want to live there. Except, you know, not with Walder Frey around.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 juin 2011 - 04:27 .