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[Cainhurst Crow]

So. Burning Shireen really paid off well for Stannis, huh? Really glad he didn't try anything else to get through the blizzard before that.

[KaiserShep]

Honestly, the show is just not fun anymore. It's just things happening, made overly violent to show what a shitty world it is. It's losing the realistic edge just to be sadistic.

 

 

And this guts the heart out of the series. Not as if the show ever really got me with feels, but I could at least find the storylines engaging, but this requires me to actually care about how a character turns out. If they all become fodder for torture or gruesome death and their subplots are cut short in a grisly yet anticlimactic way, investing in any of their stories becomes an act of futility. 

 

 

So. Burning Shireen really paid off well for Stannis, huh? Really glad he didn't try anything else to get through the blizzard before that.

 

 

I think the beginning of the episode played out pretty much how I would expect people to behave after seeing all that nonsense. Like sure, let's just stand around and watch a little girl get burned at the stake because God of Whatever. Well nuts to this, good luck with those pr*cks in Winterfell. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If Jon is actually dead then the books and show are, in retrospect, the shittiest most anti climactic story ever told.

 

Isn't that like... the point of the series or something? That would be the opposite of what people expect of an epic fantasy.

[Dobbysaurus]

I knew it was coming but it was still hard to see. That better not be it for him. 

 

*curls up into fetal position* 

[KaiserShep]

Also, poor Jaime. He actually gets the father of the year award. 

 

I was honestly not feeling the whole father daughter thing they were building (and ending) with this subplot, so Myrcella's death was a strange, morbid kind of relief. 

[justafan]

Also, I don't think Ellaria really thought out her revenge scheme very well.

 

If you want to start a war with the Lannisters, poisoning their daughter is all well and good, but you might have wanted to wait until the heir to your liege's house is not on the same boat as her now grieving father with what might as well be a "take me hostage" sign on him.

[KaiserShep]

Also, I don't think Ellaria really thought out her revenge scheme very well.

 

If you want to start a war with the Lannisters, poisoning their daughter is all well and good, but you might have wanted to wait until the heir to your liege's house is not on the same boat as her now grieving father with what might as well be a "take me hostage" sign on him.

 

I just figured she didn't really care what happened to him.

[Isichar]

And Stannis just proved why the greater good argument is bullshit. All he did was kill a bunch of people who didn't deserve to die, give the WWs some bodies for their army and help divide the realms. Great going.

Cold and calculating my ass. Greater good my ass.

[Joseph Warrick]

I don't know why people love it when Ned and Robb Stark die but Jon's death is very bad and kills the show. The three men had great destinies to fulfill but their mistakes resulted in their deaths, and the world keeps moving without them.

Isn't that like... the point of the series or something? That would be the opposite of what people expect of an epic fantasy.

No, listen, this story was supposed to be all about a righteous, handsome Chosen One who would move up in the world thanks to his honesty and bravery, fulfill an ancient prophecy and save the world against the forces of evil. That is what made this series different. Gee I have to explain everything to you people.

[TheClonesLegacy]

**** all kinds of this show.

 

The only way this show might be able to be redeemed is if Jon get's revived as a Ghost Rider looking Wraith, The Mountain clears out High Sparrow and his goons, Sansa survived by falling on top of Ramsays now crushed corpse, and Tyrion gets a giant robot to blow up Dorky Mask Guys and White Walkers in.

[HiroVoid]

Jon obvious as hell won't stay dead.

[KaiserShep]

I don't know why people love it when Ned and Robb Stark die but Jon's death is very bad and kills the show. The three men had great destinies to fulfill but their mistakes resulted in their deaths, and the world keeps moving without them.

 

I was kind of frustrated with both Ned and Robb because they were both foolish, though Robb more so, though at least in Ned's case, he took a calculated risk that could have gone either way in either his or Cercei's favor.

[Obadiah]

Pretty sure he's staying dead... unless the Winter is Coming existential threat is actually about the dead returning for righteous bloody vengeance.

Nah.

I'll repeat what I said last week: this story seems to exist just to **** with the audience.

[justafan]

And Stannis just proved why the greater good argument is bullshit. All he did was kill a bunch of people who didn't deserve to die, give the WWs some bodies for their army and help divide the realms. Great going.

Cold and calculating my ass. Greater good my ass.

Well he did save the Nights Watch.... Then again look where that got us.

[God]

And Stannis just proved why the greater good argument is bullshit. All he did was kill a bunch of people who didn't deserve to die, give the WWs some bodies for their army and help divide the realms. Great going.

Cold and calculating my ass. Greater good my ass.

 

What? 

 

The Lord of Light works in mysterious ways. You never saw Stannis killed either. And the writers were... evasive in the commentary. 

 

He never stopped doing what was right. He never stopped and surrendered, and he was no craven. He fought to the bitter end, and then some. And possibly may still have some more fight in him.

[HiroVoid]

The writers are at least clearly under the impression that Stannis's army would have starved to death or at least started resorting to cannibalism if Stannis hadn't done what he did even though it was awful as hell as seen in their character bio for Stannis.

[God]

I don't know why people love it when Ned and Robb Stark die but Jon's death is very bad and kills the show. The three men had great destinies to fulfill but their mistakes resulted in their deaths, and the world keeps moving without them.

No, listen, this story was supposed to be all about a righteous, handsome Chosen One who would move up in the world thanks to his honesty and bravery, fulfill an ancient prophecy and save the world against the forces of evil. That is what made this series different. Gee I have to explain everything to you people.

 

I really don't think you have much of a leg to stand on her buddy. Jon really didn't do anything to warrant the Watch up and killing him here (as in the books, where they do have legit cause to off him). As I said, he came back from Hardhome, did some Commander stuff, and then all of sudden is drawn into a trap set by his brothers who want him dead for no other reason than pettiness. He didn't do anything stupid like Robb or Ned. He had a plan, he informed his people of his plan, he made it happen, he returned, he explained what happened, and then several brothers decide to kill him because he happened to see the bigger picture (and explaining what happened and having verification that it happened). The Watch Brother's that kill him just plain come off as petty and destructive. Look at Olly. The kid utterly refuses to see any kind of reason whatsoever. 

 

It's just bad writing. They had a perfectly good means of doing it by following the books. It worked there because Jon did make a mistake. Here, he's doing his job, and he's doing it well, and his Brothers are to blame because they can't let go of a grudge, even when they know that it's for the greater good to do so (and have reasonable evidence and testimony for it.)

 

You don't have to be a jerkass about it. 

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

F*ck. 

 

F*ck. 

 

F*******ck. 

 

I feel empty now. 

 

My boooooy. And now his watch is ended. 

[KaiserShep]

I really don't think you have much of a leg to stand on her buddy. Jon really didn't do anything to warrant the Watch up and killing him here (as in the books, where they do have legit cause to off him). As I said, he came back from Hardhome, did some Commander stuff, and then all of sudden is drawn into a trap set by his brothers who want him dead for no other reason than pettiness. He didn't do anything stupid like Robb or Ned. He had a plan, he informed his people of his plan, he made it happen, he returned, he explained what happened, and then several brothers decide to kill him because he happened to see the bigger picture (and explaining what happened and having verification that it happened). The Watch Brother's that kill him just plain come off as petty and destructive. Look at Olly. The kid utterly refuses to see any kind of reason whatsoever. 

 

It's just bad writing. They had a perfectly good means of doing it by following the books. It worked there because Jon did make a mistake. Here, he's doing his job, and he's doing it well, and his Brothers are to blame because they can't let go of a grudge, even when they know that it's for the greater good to do so (and have reasonable evidence and testimony for it.)

 

You don't have to be a jerkass about it. 

 

Yeah, that's what kills me. Jon basically did the best he could against a snowy zombie apocalypse, which the entire Night's Watch is fully aware of and are waiting to fight, yet it just seems to not register because filthy wildling folk are too icky to live or something, so they off the one guy that managed to face them and live XD

[Dovahzeymahlkey]

F*ck. 

 

F*ck. 

 

F*******ck. 

 

I feel empty now. 

 

My boooooy. And now his watch is ended. 

spoilers son!

[Dovahzeymahlkey]

Yeah, that's what kills me. Jon basically did the best he could against a snowy zombie apocalypse, which the entire Night's Watch is fully aware of and are waiting to fight, yet it just seems to not register because filthy wildling folk are too icky to live or something, so they off the one guy that managed to face them and live XD

its amazing how legit threatening a zombie apocalypse is once you take away the guns and napalm.

[daveliam]

Geez. Now that I'm thinking back on it, this episode might have the highest body count of named recurring characters.

Spoiler

Selyse
Stannis
Myrcella
Meryn Trant
Jon
Myranda

Have any other episodes killed off so many recurring characters?

[God]

Geez. Now that I'm thinking back on it, this episode might have the highest body count of named recurring characters.

Spoiler

Selyse
Stannis
Myrcella
Meryn Trant
Jon
Myranda

Have any other episodes killed off so many recurring characters?

 

Rains of Castamere maybe. 

 

Of course, we don't actually know if Myrcella or Stannis are truly dead. I think it's leaning on likely for the former, but for Stannis, it's much more vague. Looking back, I don't think even the show writers would take him out like a chump, especially since Davos is back at the Wall and as we never actually see Stannis die. 

[Joseph Warrick]

His mistake was to not see others don't see the big picture. Not everyone is as high and almighty as him. Didn't see the trees for the forest. Thought everybody would put aside their ancient differences like he did.

Jon died in the same way the Irish elected official in Gangs of New York. Vito Corleone never made that mistake and that's why he died of old age in his garden.