11084 réponses à ce sujet

[Melra]

I wonder if there's anything left to be salvaged after this. After every passing season Daenerys becomes more and more annoying, she's like an entitled teenager who moans about her lil problems while everyone around her and beyond are dealing with reality.

There used to be so many characters one would look forward to seeing in a future season, now there's like maybe two characters, at least for me.

[Iakus]

One thing I'm curious about is how this all going to resolve (which I suppose is pretty common). With the build up we've had in the books/show, I'm half-expecting to learn Jon's parentage, have him marry Daenerys, and the two of them +1 other will ride Dragons into glorious battle against the Others.

But I'm also not sure that's the most interesting story-telling route for them to go. With Martin's desire to break audience expectations/tropes and the general nihilism of his universe, I kind of like the idea of Jon being the prophesied hero, who is now dead, Westeros is as a result doomed, and the Others trample the Kingdom. At the least, I think it's more in keeping with spirit of the books/show, even if it would leave many unsatisfied. Or Jon's mother really was just a tavern wench. 

Indeed.

 

One thing they gotta keep in mind is they can only jerk the audience around so much before they get sick of it and walk away.

[Jester]

And they changed Jon's story significantly, too- inexplicably, to me, except for the fact that they just didn't like GRRM's story that much.

Not so much. Apart from his encounter with White Walkers, in plays pretty much the same. 

He becomes Lord Commander, refuses Stannis' proposal to become Jon Stark, Warden of the North, he allows the wildlings to come through the Wall, makes an alliance with them and is assassinated by his fellow Watchmen. 

There are some details that were changed (Jon was assasinated because he wanted to involve himself and the Watch in the war with the Boltons), but mostly it plays the same.

 

This cannot however be said about Tyrion's story. Or Sansa's. Or Jaimie's...

[Rawgrim]

 

I wish the show runners had made a note of this bit from the books, before they decided to change the character.

[Il Divo]

Indeed.

 

One thing they gotta keep in mind is they can only jerk the audience around so much before they get sick of it and walk away.

 

I don't disagree. I can't say I love the idea. But at the same time, I don't see a way concluding the epic that won't either lose its thematic consistency (GoT loves to defy expectations and is an extremely brutal universe) or won't simply tire out the audience (Torch the setting aka ME3 style). 

[TobiTobsen]

Something I was thinking about: The show basically starts showing us that Melisandres weather magic kinda worked (what kind of exchange rate is that anyway? 2 leeches of a kings bastard blood = 2 dead kings; 1 burned virgin princess = +15°C? That's some shitty black magic right there!) and the snow is melting. How exactly are Theon and Sansa planing to survive the jump from Winterfells battlement?

 

Aiming for the bushes? The Rock & Samuel L Jackson style?

 

[Rawgrim]

They have torched the setting, man. They messed up the wights and turned them into screaming zombies from The Walking Dead, after portraying them quite differently in season 1 and 2. Jon's sword cuts through the Walker's armour like it wasn't there, despite having included Jorah's talk about armours vs various weapons earlier. Add teleporting cavalry into the mix and you get the mess the show is now.

[Rawgrim]

Something I was thinking about: The show basically starts showing us that Melisandres weather magic kinda worked (what kind of exchange rate is that anyway? 2 leeches of a kings bastard blood = 2 dead kings; 1 burned virgin princess = +15°C? That's some shitty black magic right there!) and the snow is melting. How exactly are Theon and Sansa planing to survive the jump from Winterfells battlement?

 

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The snow teleported back again right before they landed.

[mousestalker]

Some of the posters here may find this helpful.

Word from the producers is that everyone who died in the last episode are not merely dead, but really quite sincerely dead.

[Il Divo]

They have torched the setting, man. They messed up the wights and turned them into screaming zombies from The Walking Dead, after portraying them quite differently in season 1 and 2. Jon's sword cuts through the Walker's armour like it wasn't there, despite having included Jorah's talk about armours vs various weapons earlier. Add teleporting cavalry into the mix and you get the mess the show is now.

 

Wait, Jorah's talk about armor is the evidence for torching the setting? Again, this is the same show that has Oberyn flying around like a helicoptor and Syrio Forel like a magician disarming four guards with a wooden sword. Power of the plot always governs sword fights. This sounds a lot like purist talk, to be honest. 

 

And keep in mind, I'm someone who absolutely despises Books 4 and 5. 

[Il Divo]

Something I was thinking about: The show basically starts showing us that Melisandres weather magic kinda worked (what kind of exchange rate is that anyway? 2 leeches of a kings bastard blood = 2 dead kings; 1 burned virgin princess = +15°C? That's some shitty black magic right there!) and the snow is melting. How exactly are Theon and Sansa planing to survive the jump from Winterfells battlement?

 

Aiming for the bushes? The Rock & Samuel L Jackson style?

 

 

I heard someone mention in a review that they didn't plan on surviving the jump which makes sense. "Let me die while at least some of me is left". 

[TobiTobsen]

Some of the posters here may find this helpful.

Word from the producers is that everyone who died in the last episode are not merely dead, but really quite sincerely dead.

 

I would actually find it hilarious if all the years of John Snow theories and crackpotting would simply end in good old GRRM style.

 

"But we all knew that Melisandre would resurrect him!!1"

 

"What are you talking about? That woman couldn't even understand her own visions. Where do you think she would get the power to resurrect a dead dude with 20 stab wounds? The guy is stone-cold dead."

[Han Shot First]

I also don't really understand, why they deviated from books so freaking much.

 

Stannis burning his daughter. Sansa married to Ramsey. Tyrion ruling Mareen. Myrcella being poisoned. Jaimie in Dorne. Varys helping Tyrion rule another city, instead of hiding in King's Landing. Brienne near Winterfell...

 

None of the characters, except Cersei, Denearys and Jon, are where they're supposed to be...

 

To be fair some of those things might be spoilers for book 6. We don't yet for example whether or not Myrcella ends up poisoned at some point or Stannis burns Shireen. 

[Cunning Villain]

I don't disagree. I can't say I love the idea. But at the same time, I don't see a way concluding the epic that won't either lose its thematic consistency (GoT loves to defy expectations and is an extremely brutal universe) or won't simply tire out the audience (Torch the setting aka ME3 style). 

 

I mean, I love nihilism and certain defeat as much as the next guy, but there's a point when it becomes gratuitous, and the show is approaching that event horizon. I know moral ambiguity and grey/grimdark storytelling are all the rage these days, but I think all of us want to see our "good guys" triumph in the end, whoever they may be. What's the point of sticking around if you're just going to be constantly subjected to having the rug pulled out from underneath you? 

[Addai]

Not so much. Apart from his encounter with White Walkers, in plays pretty much the same. 

He becomes Lord Commander, refuses Stannis' proposal to become Jon Stark, Warden of the North, he allows the wildlings to come through the Wall, makes an alliance with them and is assassinated by his fellow Watchmen. 

There are some details that were changed (Jon was assasinated because he wanted to involve himself and the Watch in the war with the Boltons), but mostly it plays the same.

 

This cannot however be said about Tyrion's story. Or Sansa's. Or Jaimie's...

There's one very significant detail about Jon that they disregarded completely.

 

I just read D & D's comments on the episode and, well... there is TV that makes you feel smarter after you watch it. Then there's this.

[Chewin]

Guess I can post this one, again.

 

 

Well I don't mind. I now can look even more forward to the books, without having to feel conflicted about watching this show.

[Steelcan]

To be fair some of those things might be spoilers for book 6. We don't yet for example whether or not Myrcella ends up poisoned at some point or Stannis burns Shireen. 

well Myrcella already had her brush with death, and Shireen is currently very far away from Stannis

[Rawgrim]

Wait, Jorah's talk about armor is the evidence for torching the setting? Again, this is the same show that has Oberyn flying around like a helicoptor and Syrio Forel like a magician disarming four guards with a wooden sword. Power of the plot always governs sword fights. This sounds a lot like purist talk, to be honest. 

 

And keep in mind, I'm someone who absolutely despises Books 4 and 5. 

 

Yes. He explains how slashing weapons is poor vs the kind of armour the Walkers happens to wear. Stabbing works better etc. I cringed when Jon used his sword like a baseball bat on that walker in ep 8.

 

Disarming someone with a stick is possible. But you did notice what happened when the stick broke, didn't you?

 

Oberyn jumping around was completely believable. People can do that kind of stuff.

 

Being a purist isn't the same as being dumb.

[Iakus]

I don't disagree. I can't say I love the idea. But at the same time, I don't see a way concluding the epic that won't either lose its thematic consistency (GoT loves to defy expectations and is an extremely brutal universe) or won't simply tire out the audience (Torch the setting aka ME3 style). 

Yeah, I mean the setting is dark and brutal.  But at the same time there are a few people rising to the challenge.  If they go around screwing with characterization, themes, etc just to "push the envelope" further and further, the audience will either get sick of it, or just go numb. 

[Addai]

I wonder if there's anything left to be salvaged after this. After every passing season Daenerys becomes more and more annoying, she's like an entitled teenager who moans about her lil problems while everyone around her and beyond are dealing with reality.

Even Drogon is sick of her.

[Steelcan]

Yeah, I mean the setting is dark and brutal.  But at the same time there are a few people rising to the challenge.  If they go around screwing with characterization, themes, etc just to "push the envelope" further and further, the audience will either get sick of it, or just go numb. 

this is why people want characters like book!Stannis, LSH, and Jaime in the Riverlands

[Rawgrim]

To be fair some of those things might be spoilers for book 6. We don't yet for example whether or not Myrcella ends up poisoned at some point or Stannis burns Shireen. 

 

Stannis won't burn Shireen in the books. He is too far away from her and he has no need to do it. Mel and Selyse just might do it though. To raise Jon or something.

[Il Divo]

Yes. He explains how slashing weapons is poor vs the kind of armour the Walkers happens to wear. Stabbing works better etc. I cringed when Jon used his sword like a baseball bat on that walker in ep 8.

 

Disarming someone with a stick is possible. But you did notice what happened when the stick broke, didn't you?

 

Oberyn jumping around was completely believable. People can do that kind of stuff.

 

Being a purist isn't the same as being dumb.

 

Disarming 4 train soldiers with a stick is already in the realm of super heroes. It's the same as we see in action movies where the idiot guards attack the protagonist one at a time but get beat. 

 

No, Oberyn jumping around is not completely believable. People can do that kind of stuff in terms of physical ability. People do not employ that style of combat in duels. It wastes energy and time and does not involve efficiency of movement. How many styles of combat actually involve doing flips in the air? They accomplish nothing, despite being impressive from an acrobatic stand point. 

 

As I said, it's being a purist and expecting hyper realism in a series that's often about rule of cool until the plot demands something bad happens to someone. Aka Syrio dying against Meryn trant instead of actually picking up a real sword. 

[Lulupab]

I don't even know what to say, everything has been pretty much discussed. I just finished watching it now as I as at work all day.

 

But the only thing that bothers me is book purists attacking the show all the time. This is a De ja vu from LOTR.

 

Episode 8 was a world record in ratings:

 

http://www.imdb.com/.../?ref_=ttep_ep8

 

Other than that, there were way too many cliffhangers for my taste.

[Rawgrim]

Disarming 4 train soldiers with a stick is already in the realm of super heroes. It's the same as we see in action movies where the idiot guards attack the protagonist one at a time but get beat. 

 

No, Oberyn jumping around is not completely believable. People can do that kind of stuff in terms of physical ability. People do not employ that style of combat in duels. It wastes energy and time and does not involve efficiency of movement. How many styles of combat actually involve doing flips in the air? They accomplish nothing, despite being impressive from an acrobatic stand point. 

 

As I said, it's being a purist and expecting hyper realism in a series that's often about rule of cool until the plot demands something bad happens to someone. Aka Syrio dying against Meryn trant instead of actually picking up a real sword. 

 

You forget that Syrio was a SWORDMASTER. Look up what that word means. And he did lose the fight anyway.

 

Oberyn deliberatly picked that tactic vs a heavily armoured Clegane, to tire him out. Add poison to the mix and it was a win win situation. And at no point did he do an actual flip. He jumped around a bit but mostly he was just being quick.