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[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Lord Eighty of House Goodmen. The even more badass elder brother of Lord Twenty of House Goodmen. 

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I wonder if we'll see Dagmer again if the Greyjoys are coming back.

 

He was such an asshole, I loved it.

 

 

"It was a good speech. Didn't want to interrupt." 

[justafan]

For all moaning about what "the writers" did to Stannis, it should be noted that it is on the record that the decision to have Stannis burn Shireen came directly from GRR. D&D had "WTF" moments when they were told to do that.

 

The only thing they said about the scene was "when George told us about this scene".  That can be interpreted in a lot of ways.  It could mean Stannis will burn her for good weather to get to Winterfell exactly as in the show (VERY unlikely given the character's locations in the book), it could mean that Stannis will burn her at some point (again unlikely given his dialogue in the books as well as his much more favorable position, but not impossible), or it could mean that at some point Shireen will be burnt (which is not only possible but plausible given my favorite theory

Spoiler

since both Shireen and Melisandre are at the Wall when Jon is stabbed, she has kingsblood, and there is the prophesy about "raising the dragon from stone", with Jon being Rhaegar's son and stone being Shireen's greyscale, she will be burned to raise the real Azor Ahai

)

[Inquisitor Recon]

For all moaning about what "the writers" did to Stannis, it should be noted that it is on the record that the decision to have Stannis burn Shireen came directly from GRR. D&D had "WTF" moments when they were told to do that.

I know I've said this before but if Stannis himself is to burn her there is almost no way it could be related to the Battle For Winterfell. Shireen is 500 miles to the North and I rather doubt he's going to write a letter telling Melisandre to burn his only heir.

 

Could Melisandre do it independently? Perhaps. Could Stannis do it later? Perhaps. But the scenario that occurred in the show was just bastardized writing leading to a very unimpressive battle for Winterfell. Also there was no "the North remembers" themes anywhere in Stannis' story this season.

 

In the show does Stannis ever even explain why he went to the aid of the Night's Watch? All I recall is him saying how he was going to kill the Boltons and rally the North.

[Rawgrim]

Here is an odd thing. Lets say Melisandre raises Jon from the dead. She has been utterly convinced Stannis is the chosen one etc, all through the season. So why doesn't she look for Stannis on the battlefield and try and raise him? She knows he has fallen, after all.

[CrutchCricket]

There is no sense that love is important (sex is important on the show, and often showcased, but love ... not so much.)

Love gets you killed.
 
I'm pretty sure everyone who's ever been in love in the show either dies or has their loved one die, and often that love is related. So much so that I once posited GRRM was really bitter about something...
 
The exception of course is Tyrion who killed his own love and thus became immortal. Also Cersei, probably out of spite.
 

I wonder if we'll see Dagmer again if the Greyjoys are coming back.

He dead. Courtesy of everyone's favorite psycho.

 

Unless you mean in the books, in which case I have no idea.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Here is an odd thing. Lets say Melisandre raises Jon from the dead. She has been utterly convinced Stannis is the chosen one etc, all through the season. So why doesn't she look for Stannis on the battlefield and try and raise him? She knows he has fallen, after all.

 

Because she realized Stannis isn't the Lord of Light's chosen, and Jon is. That's why she turned tail and left. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think she supposedly realized they had failed and she was wrong all along when half the army deserted.

Regarding Balon, I honestly kind of half suspected he had died off screen a while back and nobody noticed.

[Rawgrim]

Because she realized Stannis isn't the Lord of Light's chosen, and Jon is. That's why she turned tail and left. 

 

I think her vision about the battle failed her. And she seems broken up about the loss when she returns to Winterfell.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Because she realized Stannis isn't the Lord of Light's chosen, and Jon is. That's why she turned tail and left. 

Really a dick move after leading a man to his complete destruction.

 

Interpreting things in the flames can't be THAT hard Melisandre.

[Rawgrim]

Dagmer got killed off-screen when Ramsey took Winterfell. Skinned alive.

[CrutchCricket]

Here is an odd thing. Lets say Melisandre raises Jon from the dead. She has been utterly convinced Stannis is the chosen one etc, all through the season. So why doesn't she look for Stannis on the battlefield and try and raise him? She knows he has fallen, after all.

From the way she appeared at the wall, I think she thinks she was wrong about Stannis.

 

When she hears about the desertion, slinks away and we get told she cheesed it, I figured she just ran for fear of retaliation from Stannis.

 

But her face at the Wall- she's totally crushed. That's not the face of a coward, that's the face of the utterly disillusioned, someone who's lost faith. Maybe in her judgement if not faith in the Lord of Light.

 

It's an interesting contrast, given how in control she's been up to this point.

[slimgrin]

Here is an odd thing. Lets say Melisandre raises Jon from the dead. She has been utterly convinced Stannis is the chosen one etc, all through the season. So why doesn't she look for Stannis on the battlefield and try and raise him? She knows he has fallen, after all.

 

She doesn't give a **** about Stannis. Scampered off at the first sign of trouble, like any religious opportunist. She'll attach herself to someone else. Seemed to me she was playing him like a fiddle all along, never cared about his welfare and clearly not his family.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Really a dick move after leading a man to his complete destruction.

 

Interpreting things in the flames can't be THAT hard Melisandre.

 

Especially when her flames apparently already showed her visions of Jon a dozen times by then.

 

What did she think R'hllor was trying to show her? Kit Harrington's beautiful hair? :S

[Inquisitor Recon]

Especially when her flames apparently already showed her visions of Jon a dozen times by then.

 

What did she think R'hllor was trying to show her? Kit Harrington's beautiful hair? :S

And despite that the only advice show Melisandre ever had for Jon was "We'll bang, okay?"

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

And to remind him of his lack of knowledge yet again. Poor guy thought he was done with that s***. 

[Rawgrim]

From the way she appeared at the wall, I think she thinks she was wrong about Stannis.

 

When she hears about the desertion, slinks away and we get told she cheesed it, I figured she just ran for fear of retaliation from Stannis.

 

But her face at the Wall- she's totally crushed. That's not the face of a coward, that's the face of the utterly disillusioned, someone who's lost faith. Maybe in her judgement if not faith in the Lord of Light.

 

It's an interesting contrast, given how in control she's been up to this point.

 

She isn't afraid of being killed. We saw that after the Blackwater battle. Most likely because she is already quite dead. It is hinted at in the books here and there. She doesn't need sleep. she hardly ever eats. And she doesn't get cold.

[Rawgrim]

She doesn't give a **** about Stannis. Scampered off at the first sign of trouble, like any religious opportunist. She'll attach herself to someone else. Seemed to me she was playing him like a fiddle all along, never cared about his welfare and clearly not his family.

 

So she joined with him. Had him build an army. Killed his brother for him. Got him to the wall. And then set him up? Why? To get close to Jon Snow? she could have just gone there right away.

[CrutchCricket]

She doesn't give a **** about Stannis. Scampered off at the first sign of trouble, like any religious opportunist. She'll attach herself to someone else. Seemed to me she was playing him like a fiddle all along, never cared about his welfare and clearly not his family.

I disagree. Again look at how she acts at the Wall. She's speechless and beaten. The woman who always had **** to say can't even mumble.

 

If she was just opportunistic and bailed when the going got tough she would've been bullshitting all up and down the Wall at Davos, at Jon, at anybody who'll listen. She might've been furtive or shifty but she wasn't. She was utterly devastated.

 

Not saying she necessarily cares about Stannis as a person. But she's a true believer, and at least a portion of what she believes just turned out to be wrong.

[CrutchCricket]

She isn't afraid of being killed. We saw that after the Blackwater battle. Most likely because she is already quite dead. It is hinted at in the books here and there. She doesn't need sleep. she hardly ever eats. And she doesn't get cold.

Interesting.

 

But death is hardly the worst Stannis could do to her. And I think she'd feel the fire if it was turned on her.

 

But yeah, once we see her at the Wall, it's clear she didn't just bail.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

She isn't afraid of being killed. We saw that after the Blackwater battle. Most likely because she is already quite dead. It is hinted at in the books here and there. She doesn't need sleep. she hardly ever eats. And she doesn't get cold.

I think the commentary for the show implies the same. They drew attention to the fact that her actress played getting up from being strangled very "zombie like."

[Steelcan]

she should be sacrificed to the drowned God

[Iakus]

Love gets you killed.
 

The exception of course is Tyrion who killed his own love and thus became immortal. 

 

For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm  

 

 

Also Cersei, probably out of spite.

The only people in the world Cersei seems to truly love are her children.  And she's losing them one by one. 

[Addai]

I think the rumor that says "royal blood" means Targaryen blood is true. Because Targaryens have actual magic in their blood from Valyria but rest of the noble houses are just titles. Melissandre used Baratheon blood which is mixed with Targaryen blood on two occassions in 3 generations.

I always assumed it could be remnants of the First Men.

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

Ouch.



For all the problems with show Stannis, I don't think Dillane was ever one of them.

 

A part of the reason Dillane as Stannis worked so well is because they appear to be extremely similar, as in extremely blunt stoic and honest. I mean just read his Q&A. 

 

What is the trait you most deplore in others? 

Disagreeing with me.

 

What makes you unhappy? 

Other people.