11084 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Kevan simply is more of a satellite character here than in the books. They haven't really decided to put him forward yet. Like Pycelle. We barely saw the dude at all this season. Logically, Kevan would do that, while subverting the Tyrells as much as possible. He hates them. In the books, he concedes to give Mace Hand of the King, while he is Lord Regent (so thus able to actually rule), while making a more sympathetic Randall Tarly his Master of Laws. Otherwise, Kevan doesn't want the Queen of Thorns anywhere near King's Landing, and, while working to bring closer reconciliation to Highgarden and King's Landing, he doesn't hide from the fact that he puts his foot down with the Tyrells. As I said, he's a milder, but no less competent version of Tywin. 

 

Jaime doesn't want to rule. He never wanted to rule. It's not where his heart is. He's more of a leader than a ruler. And he'll likely forsake Cersei before long too, as he becomes a better man. It has nothing to do with wanting to be forced into a marriage for him. It has to do with him just not wanting the job. Granted, Cersei is really all he's interested in, but I expect that to change next season (not that he'll start looking at others so much as he starts to distance himself from Cersei). Otherwise, Show!Jaime (Let's call him Jimmy) has arguably had as much character derailment as Stannis has had character assassination. 

 

I don't mind Tyrion when he isn't a writers pet. Unfortunately, he is. That he's remotely likable still is a testament to the character itself, and the way that Peter Dinklage acts, more than the quality of the writing.

 

The Lannisters have alternate means to make their fortune. Even if the gold mines went dry, Tywin was able to put what was left into practical and useful ventures that ensured no less interference. He knew how to play his economics. And then Joffrey went and started a war... That's what blew the fortunes. And Cersei doesn't help matters. Saying FU to the Iron Bank of Braavos and the Faith in the books, deciding the realm needs a new and costly Navy, then giving command of the fleet to a very sketchy man who predictably sails off with the fleet for his own mercenary goals, then commissioning ANOTHER fleet to find and track down the previous fleet. All of this alienates Jaime who is hurt by her constant belittling of his change of attitude and appearance, her revulsion at the loss of his hand, and his knowledge that she has been very unfaithful to him (whereas he at least only ever had eyes for her). 

 

She commissions a pricey mission to send a member of the Kingsguard to murder Prince Trystane Martell and blame it on Tyrion (she's still completely obsessed with Tyrion, and absolutely paranoid that anyone against her is an agent of his trying to humiliate and murder her), which of course ends up with Myrcella being badly disfigured (although I think that was a separate issue caused by Arianne Martell Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes (which have been totally butchered).)

 

Damnit, the show verse is making me mistake the books now.

Well in the show Olena hates staying in King's Landing just as much so that would work out. I think both would be comfortable pitting their wits against each other and going back to playing "the game". But I'd hope they'd deal with their common enemy first.

 

I get that he doesn't want to rule. But then neither did Robert really. Still the fact that ruling enabled him to pretty much do as he pleased is undeniable. Of course there are consequences to shirking your duty. But is it better than not having power at all? As far as the show goes, I think it's Cersei who'll forsake him for failing to bring Myrcella back. Sure she'll blame the Martells and Tyrion somehow, but I don't think she's all there anymore (if she ever was) and I can see her taking it out on Jaime as well.

 

After the mines ran dry Tywin held it together by force of will and personality alone. With him gone I can quickly see it unraveling. Kind of a shame really. I hate Cersei and 2/3 of her brood but the Lannister House under Tywin was indeed worthy. They were the most visibly impressive dynasty to date. Everyone else we mostly only hear about.

[Thallia_CroGun]

[MisterJB]

"Is that Yvon...Holy shite, it is."

[Rawgrim]

 

The musical is on its way too. Jamie Lannister stole the show.

[MisterJB]

Oh, Liam Neeson.

[Fast Jimmy]

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

The musical is on its way too. Jamie Lannister stole the show.

Oh, dear lord, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. That was absolutely amazing.

[goofyomnivore]

So weird seeing Ramsay being friendly.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

[CrutchCricket]

[Rawgrim]

 

 

[God]

Yvonne as Daenerys...

 

Must... not... let... hate... for... Dany Sue... ruin... love... for... Yvonne...

[CrutchCricket]

You know, nothing against Yvonne, but I have a feeling Emilia Clarke would've actually done this if asked.

 

Of course, it may have been judged unfair if the actual Khaleesi showed up to rap battle a random.

 

Yvonne as Daenerys...

 

Must... not... let... hate... for... Dany Sue... ruin... love... for... Yvonne...

Try picturing Yvonne as Cersei. That's what I started thinking halfway through the vid.

 

I don't think I did you any favors there.

[God]

I still don't get why everyone still calls Daenerys 'Khaleesi'. She lost almost every person in her Khalasar at this point, and she outgrew the nickname in the books (where she prefers not to be called by it any longer).

 

But indeed, Emilia Clarke probably would have been more than willing to come. I mean, Nikolai Coster-Waldau has time to appear in a shoot for a parody. Plus, Yvonne... is about 10 years too old for the part. Emilia Clarke is able to do it because she still looks like a young girl (even though she'll be pushing 30 in another year.) I don't know how old Daenerys is in the show (the ages are kinda screwy, beyond the age-up) but she's only about 17-18 in the books at this point. Still, the latest I could see her being is about 20-21. 

 

Much as I dislike Cersei and her incompetence, I hate Daenerys more, for one reason: At this point, she's being treated as the designated winner. I really dislike it when a character is going to be set up ahead of time as the winner. It's why I hope so much that GRRM is going to undermine it at some point. If he doesn't, then it will have been blandly predictable (and not the least bit intellectually insulting) exercise in futility. It doesn't help that Daenerys is, in her own way, comparable to the incompetence and idiocy of Cersei. She just has people who are somewhat more talented than her to pull her out of the ****, and do it where Dany learns absolutely no lesson in the process.

 

Whereas no matter how bad or incompetent Cersei is, you know she's going to at least be getting her comeuppance.

[Lulupab]

The only thing predictable about Dany will be her arrival on Westeros. She can die seconds after she sets foot on Westeros shores or she can sit on Iron throne. There are hundreds of possibilities in between as well.

[Fast Jimmy]

The only thing predictable about Dany will be her arrival on Westeros. She can die seconds after she sets foot on Westeros shores or she can sit on Iron throne. There are hundreds of possibilities in between as well.

There could be no winner at all. We could be seeing the swan song of Westeros, and maybe even Essos and beyond.

[God]

The only thing predictable about Dany will be her arrival on Westeros. She can die seconds after she sets foot on Westeros shores or she can sit on Iron throne. There are hundreds of possibilities in between as well.

 

Then what would be the narrative point of having written about her?

 

Anything can happen or anyone can die does not mean that anything can happen randomly or people will die randomly.

[Sifr]

Then what would be the narrative point of having written about her?

 

Anything can happen or anyone can die does not mean that anything can happen randomly or people will die randomly.

 

But the same can be said about what was the point of having spent so long on the rise of the Northern Rebellion and how they were a major contender in the civil war, only for Robb Stark to be ganked unceremoniously at a wedding along with most of his entire army? That was a major narrative arc that ultimately went nowhere either, despite being a traditional "rise to power" storyline similar to Dany's own.

 

(Although I suppose that Robb not being a POV character in the novels was kinda a clue that his story wasn't important)

[CrutchCricket]

I still don't get why everyone still calls Daenerys 'Khaleesi'. She lost almost every person in her Khalasar at this point, and she outgrew the nickname in the books (where she prefers not to be called by it any longer).

I think it's more of a fandom thing. Or maybe FanDumb. I think in some cases it's as bad as people believing that's her actual name.

I'm trying to remember if anyone besides Jorah still calls her that in the show. Hell, maybe that factors into her annoyance at him.
 

Much as I dislike Cersei and her incompetence, I hate Daenerys more, for one reason: At this point, she's being treated as the designated winner. I really dislike it when a character is going to be set up ahead of time as the winner. It's why I hope so much that GRRM is going to undermine it at some point. If he doesn't, then it will have been blandly predictable (and not the least bit intellectually insulting) exercise in futility. It doesn't help that Daenerys is, in her own way, comparable to the incompetence and idiocy of Cersei. She just has people who are somewhat more talented than her to pull her out of the ****, and do it where Dany learns absolutely no lesson in the process.
 
Whereas no matter how bad or incompetent Cersei is, you know she's going to at least be getting her comeuppance.

I suppose if you look at her arc in isolation, it is insultingly predictable. But looking at the whole story I feel like shocking and brutal are SOP but they'll still go conventional at the end, namely Daenerys is good, thus she wins. At least in the show, which it seems has proven more gratuitous in some cases. Though I suppose some form of "nobody wins" is also possible.

 

And I'm not sure Cersei will get hers. Sure, "shame, shame" and all that. But despite being bruised and battered, Cersei didn't look beaten to me. And now that she's got Frankenmountain (or perhaps Mountainstein) I think she has means and motive to be more batshit then ever. She persists, and even thrives past the point of tolerance. We're supposed to be shocked by how degrading the Walk of Shame was, and while it was degrading, not only is she still alive, but she's back among allies, and has a terrifying weapon in the form of the aformentioned undead Mountain. If she had a firm grasp on the idiot ball when she armed the fanatics, I think the High Sparrow had just as tight a grip when he let her go.

[SNascimento]

You know, I've been thinking. The Valyrians would own the White Walkers hard if the peninsula their city was located had not, well, exploded. Wouldn't they?

[justafan]

You know, I've been thinking. The Valyrians would own the White Walkers hard if the peninsula their city was located had not, well, exploded. Wouldn't they?

An army of dragon riding, blood magicking, compulsive conquerors?  Ya there's probably a reason the walkers waited 8000 years and only really started coming back after the last Valyrian ruler was deposed.

[DrBlingzle]

As seeing into the future is a thing in ASOIAF/GoT it's quite possible that the white walkers can do such a thing and are deliberately attacking now, with westeros drained of men and resources due to the war and winter coming to make to make it all the more easy to conquer.

 

Although if this is true it begs the question why would they attack when Dragons were finally brought back after 100+ years? And why would they be surprised about what valyrian steel can do?

So either this theory is rubbish or the white walkers just can't foresee everything. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm trying to remember if anyone besides Jorah still calls her that in the show. Hell, maybe that factors into her annoyance at him.

Which is pretty messed up, to keep using a name that is MOST likely to remind her of her dead husband when he has a crush on her.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Stannis' storyline in a nutshell.

[Dermain]

I think it's more of a fandom thing. Or maybe FanDumb. I think in some cases it's as bad as people believing that's her actual name.

I'm trying to remember if anyone besides Jorah still calls her that in the show. Hell, maybe that factors into her annoyance at him.
 

I suppose if you look at her arc in isolation, it is insultingly predictable. But looking at the whole story I feel like shocking and brutal are SOP but they'll still go conventional at the end, namely Daenerys is good, thus she wins. At least in the show, which it seems has proven more gratuitous in some cases. Though I suppose some form of "nobody wins" is also possible.

 

And I'm not sure Cersei will get hers. Sure, "shame, shame" and all that. But despite being bruised and battered, Cersei didn't look beaten to me. And now that she's got Frankenmountain (or perhaps Mountainstein) I think she has means and motive to be more batshit then ever. She persists, and even thrives past the point of tolerance. We're supposed to be shocked by how degrading the Walk of Shame was, and while it was degrading, not only is she still alive, but she's back among allies, and has a terrifying weapon in the form of the aformentioned undead Mountain. If she had a firm grasp on the idiot ball when she armed the fanatics, I think the High Sparrow had just as tight a grip when he let her go.

 

Not necessarily. The High Sparrow has the support of the commoners (which may or may not have been shown in the show) so any move Cersei makes against him will turn the public against her even more (because they certainly don't respect her after her walk). It's also important to note (in the show at least) that Cersei is not fully surrounded by allies. Kevan Lannnister has an extreme disliking of Cersei, and will certainly oppose her in any and all capacities possible for him. This is even more likely (provided the writers don't turn him into an incompetent) seeing as certain characters are not present in Kings Landing in the show.

 

If anything, Cersei actually going all batshit will further fracture the realm, and will definitely destroy the "alliance" with the Tyrell's and Dorne.

[CrutchCricket]

An army of dragon riding, blood magicking, compulsive conquerors?  Ya there's probably a reason the walkers waited 8000 years and only really started coming back after the last Valyrian ruler was deposed.

I wonder if it's more than just common sense by the Walkers. Maybe it's a magical unbinding as well. The disappearance of dragons and their masters from the world allowed them to awake and arise again.

 

Sort of a Galactus-Abraxas situation. I don't know much of the lore behind the ancient magic of this world, but I think it's a cool idea.

 

Not necessarily. The High Sparrow has the support of the commoners (which may or may not have been shown in the show) so any move Cersei makes against him will turn the public against her even more (because they certainly don't respect her after her walk). It's also important to note (in the show at least) that Cersei is not fully surrounded by allies. Kevan Lannnister has an extreme disliking of Cersei, and will certainly oppose her in any and all capacities possible for him. This is even more likely (provided the writers don't turn him into an incompetent) seeing as certain characters are not present in Kings Landing in the show.

 

If anything, Cersei actually going all batshit will further fracture the realm, and will definitely destroy the "alliance" with the Tyrell's and Dorne.

I don't disagree with you. But maybe Cersei's at the "just wants to see the world burn" stage. Even before, she showed inklings of this when she threatened Tywin with  exposing her secret if he forced her to marry Loras. Even though that wouldn't just destroy the Lannister legacy but also her children and powerbase. And she was "saner" then.

 

I hope Kevan is Tywin Lite and is able to reign her in, but apart from his brief defiance, we haven't seen evidence to that affect yet. Mostly I hope he doesn't end up with a knife in his back. Cersei at least somewhat feared Tywin but her "I choose my own family" speech along with the aforementioned potential to just lash out makes me think Uncle Kevan doesn't count for much with her.