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[mousestalker]

Daenerys may be Queen of Mereen, but this thread has many Queens of Denial.

[Fast Jimmy]

Pro tip: Her magic isn't instant I-Win buttons.

Which wouldn't be a problem if she didn't sell it as exactly that. She promised Stannis victory, not melted snow. She promised Bolton banners burned when Stannis was moving his forces forward. She promised VICTORY with her magic... and she never delivered. Never once did she say "read the fine print."

She is a shuckster, a dishonest fanatic and a conjurer of cheap tricks.

[Fast Jimmy]

Daenerys may be Queen of Mereen, but this thread has many Queens of Denial.

Ain't that a river in Egypt?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Then you are a usurper who will bend the knee or be destroyed.
 
Be known that Snook supports the King Who Lost The North.

Hey, least it isn't the King Who Burned His Daughter then Lost Everything.

[Metalfros]

Just came to think of it, with all true Baratheons dead, who is now the Lord of the Stormlands?

[Han Shot First]

Just came to think of it, with all true Baratheons dead, who is now the Lord of the Stormlands?

 

Hot Pie.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Just came to think of it, with all true Baratheons dead, who is now the Lord of the Stormlands?

 

Gendry.

 

Still rowin'....

[Halfdan The Menace]

Where is Hodor? bet he be the one saving everyone arse from the terrifying ice zombies.

[Metalfros]

Where is Hodor? bet he be the one saving everyone arse from the terrifying ice zombies.

In case you are serious: somewhere with Osha keeping Rickon, the rightful Lord of Winterfell, save in the North.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Where is Hodor? bet he be the one saving everyone arse from the terrifying ice zombies.

 

They kept Bran's training montage off-screen this season, so the poor guy has probably been serving as Bran's warging guinea pig for a while now. 

 

In case you are serious: somewhere with Osha keeping Rickon, the rightful Lord of Winterfell, save in the North.

 

Hodor stayed with Bran, he didn't go with Osha and Rickon.

[Steelcan]

Just came to think of it, with all true Baratheons dead, who is now the Lord of the Stormlands?

Aegon Targaryen sixth of his name, rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, and protector of the realm

[Clover Rider]

Aegon Targaryen fifth of his name, rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, and protector of the realm

Egg came back from the dead?

 

There is a chance for Westeros!

[Steelcan]

crap wrong one, edited

[Clover Rider]

Oh...

 

Damn it. :\

[CrutchCricket]

Why not? I suppose I'm not really part of the fandom for the books or the show but I get the sense the Starks are generally considered miserable failures because their decisions and nobility lead to their deaths. Stannis' situation is exactly the same, except his lack of nobility caused his death. If his marching on Winterfell was inevitable and burning Shireen was the only choice he could have made, then he must have been doomed form the start, because apparently there was never any way for him to have ever defeated the Boltons.

None of this has to do with whether a decision is right or not.

 

Victory can "redeem" a decision to some extent once it's in the bag, but victory is never a requirement of a choice being right. You do the best you can with what you have.

 

Stannis was doomed by plot contrivance. At least in the show.

 

Which wouldn't be a problem if she didn't sell it as exactly that. She promised Stannis victory, not melted snow. She promised Bolton banners burned when Stannis was moving his forces forward. She promised VICTORY with her magic... and she never delivered. Never once did she say "read the fine print."

She is a shuckster, a dishonest fanatic and a conjurer of cheap tricks.

Look at Ep 10 when she's at the wall. She's just as shocked as the rest of us.

 

Though really, it wasn't her fault half the army deserted. Or the other plot contrivances.

 

She may have her cheap tricks (she acknowledges a whole shelful in a previous season. But she does have real power, or is able to summon it, whether you like it or not. More than Daenerys. More than the old or new gods. The only creature seen thus far that has her beat is this guy:

 

They kept Bran's training montage off-screen this season, so the poor guy has probably been serving as Bran's warging guinea pig for a while now. 

 

"You know, I'm up for this, but... kinda feels like the White Walkers have a better gym than us."

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

I don't even think Stannis' demise was the most underwhelming death this season by a long shot. That goes to Barristan Selmy. I mean seriously, killing him off was 100% shock value.

And now we'll never hear his TWOW battle speech in his voice. Such a shame.

 

Worst thing about his death is that he had just warned Dany not to become like the Mad King, and then as soon as he died Dany immediately put potentially innocent people to the flame.

 

Poor Barry. He just died but he's probably already turning in his grave

[Disgruntled Canadian]

i wonder what's going to happen to Dolorous Edd after the mutiny with Jon. People know he was his last good friend at the wall, will they go for him too?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

i wonder what's going to happen to Dolorous Edd after the mutiny with Jon. People know he was his last good friend at the wall, will they go for him too?

 

Edd has simultaneously the worst luck and the best luck in the world. He's the guy who is pretty 'meh' on the prospect of living, but he never dies while Grenn, Pyp and co do. Thorne and his posse will probably arrange several assassination attempts on him, but then he'll just happen to sleep through it and not be where they predicted he would be, step aside as someone moves to push him off the wall causing them to slip and fall themselves, by chance decide the ravens need the poisoned food more than he does...

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

allow us all to pay tribute to teh few times D&D got Stannis right 

 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

None of this has to do with whether a decision is right or not.

 

Victory can "redeem" a decision to some extent once it's in the bag, but victory is never a requirement of a choice being right. You do the best you can with what you have.

 

Stannis was doomed by plot contrivance. At least in the show.

 

What other criteria could you possibly try to justify murdering your child for the greater good than the greater good happening? It was never going to work. 

 

Isn't everyone who died in the show doomed by plot contrivance? Honestly, I thought it was a little contrived the way the Red Wedding happened since Robb Stark seemed savy enough to manage the northern lords and the war with the Lannisters up until that point and both he and Catelyn knew that Walder Frey wasn't trust worthy even in that same episode.

[Br3admax]

Gendry.

 

Still rowin'....

Technically, Tommen is still a Baratheon.

 

But it's not like it's impossible that Gendry could be legitimized. It's known to happen when concerning the last living member of a House.  

[TobiTobsen]

Just came to think of it, with all true Baratheons dead, who is now the Lord of the Stormlands?

 

Found something serious regarding this question on teh interwebz:

 

 

drewhink, bastards don’t qualify, sorry. They only do when they’re legitimized. (And note legitimizations can only be performed by a king or ruling queen.) If someone were to legitimize any of Robert’s bastards, the most likely one would be Edric Storm, as he’s noble on both sides and was castle-raised. Gendry would be very unlikely, especially since nobody knows who he is.

 

But note if Stannis dies and Shireen also dies (not at the Battle of Ice since she’s not there, but for some other reason perhaps), Storm’s End would technically go to Tommen and then Myrcella Baratheon. Unless it’s definitely proven that they are bastards and that Robert was not actually their father, but since they’ll most likely die we can rule them out either way.

 

After them, you’d have to go to whatever other descendants of Lyonel Baratheon may exist. (Since Steffon appears to have been an only child.) He had a daughter, so one place to look would be whoever she married and their descendants. It’s also possible that Lyonel had other children (Stannis’s great-uncle Ser Harbert may have been one of them), so another place to look would be if they had any descendants. And after that option is ruled out, you’d look at descendants of Lyonel’s siblings… one of those might be Gowen Baratheon, who married Tya Lannister, but since they only had one child who died, there’s probably nothing else there. And so on.

 

It’s only after you ruled out any legitimate Baratheon descendants — if Lyonel’s daughter died without issue, etc — that you’d start looking at Robert’s bastards. And that’s where Gendry might have an edge over Edric, because Gendry’s much more in position to impress some king (or queen) and be legitimized and granted Storm’s End for his service. But Edric could also have an edge there, because Stannis barely knows of Gendry’s existence, and if Stannis were dying (not necessarily at the Battle of Ice) and aware that Shireen had died before him, he might legitimize Edric especially if he knew a search for Baratheon cousins would be futile.

 

Though note re bastard legitimizations, the king who performs it has to be recognized as a legitimate king himself. (Which is why Stannis refuses to acknowledge Ramsay as a Bolton, because to do so would be to recognize Tommen as a legitimate king, and he won’t.) So even if Stannis ground his teeth and legitimized any of Robert’s bastards, it might be that whoever de facto rules Westeros would not recognize it, and the same with any storm lord who doesn’t currently follow Stannis. And the latter event is especially likely in the case that no Baratheon distant cousins exist… because then it’s very probable some loyal-to-the-crown storm lord would be granted Storm’s End. Which could happen anyway, and I’m surprised it hasn’t so far considering that both Stannis and Renly were stripped of lands and titles by Joffrey (see also how House Bolton was granted Wardenship of the North, as well as the various rulers of Harrenhal), but presumably House Baratheon of King’s Landing preferred to keep Storm’s End to themselves even pending the end of the siege.

So… in the event that both Stannis and Shireen die, the status of Storm’s End really depends on who rules Westeros at that point and/or is recognized by the majority of storm lords. (“Majority” in the sense of who’s got the bigger army, of course.) In other words, “by rights” doesn’t apply here, unfortunately, and we’ll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Cunning Villain]

Then you are a usurper who will bend the knee or be destroyed.

 

Be known that Snook supports the King Who Lost The North.

 

I always laugh at your talk of usurpers trying to steal the Iron Throne from Stannis, considering the only reason Stannis has any claim to it is because his brother usurped the Targaryens.

[MisterJB]

Stannis Baratheon would greatly improve the educational system of the realm.

[MisterJB]

Boy, I sure do wonder what the King of the Iron Islands, Balon Greyjoy, is doing.

Tommen doesn't seem to be in an hurry to bring that part back into the realm.