The following post contains at least two massive
spoilers. Please do not read on if you are unfamiliar with the novels.
Addai67 wrote...
How is she any more a darling than those two? All are POV characters.
She is on an upward trajectory while I would argue Brienne and Arya are not. In Arya's case I would say she is headed in the opposite direction, in fact. Also as noted before, I find their struggles more human and relatable. The more power Dany acquires, the less she feels like a character I can connect with.
Addai67 wrote...
Eh, what? What do you call... what's going to happen in this finale?
Or all the other things she loses and has to struggle for?
I did mention I liked Dany in the first book, right? This finale *is* part of "A Game of Thrones", is it not? Dany began losing her appeal *after* said finale. The rest I will not even get into because I think it should be obvious by now I do not find her later struggles as significant or meaningful. However, it was not an instantaneous change. My interest waned gradually. It was not until late into "A Storm of Swords" when I started to get a little tired of her chapters.
Addai67 wrote...
Well, I also didn't like the magical intervention in her case, either. It's the same principle for both- death is required for life- so at least he is keeping the principle limited and there's a cost involved. But personally I didn't like Dany's chapters at all until after GoT. I don't see anything unrealistic in her successes. She's building an army. If she weren't building an army, there'd be no story.
That was why I noted Dany has her place. I simply find that place is no longer as interesting as some others. Dany is vital to the plot at this stage. Hence, why I likened her to a plot device rather than a character. That she is integral to the story does not automatically make her captivating or thought provoking. Fact is, what sets ASoIaF apart from most contempary fantasy series is how horrible every character has it is. Dany has not had it *that* bad for a long time. Not when comparing her life's accomplishments and failures to everyone else. Like GodWood wrote, most of her stumbles resulted in a substantial net gain.
It is sort of like a man claiming that being hawt is a weakness because he cannot put up with the extra attention.
When other characters in ASoIaF suffer setbacks it usually costs them in the long run. At the very least it means something to their growth as characters.
Addai67 wrote...
I don't see anyone calling Tyrion or Jon Marty Stu's, despite the fact that they succeed at a lot of their endeavors. I suspect it's a female succeeding on wits and charisma that puts Dany in that spot. She's not actually wielding a sword so the things she accomplishes "got handed to her."
Why mention Tyrion or Jon if neither was brought up before now? Since you mentioned them, yes, I agree. In fact, I think Tyrion is even *worse* than Dany at this point. Killing Tywin was the climax of his story as far as I am concerned. While Tyrion *might* grow further as a character, he has already shut the door on *the* plot hook of his life. Anything he does now is likely to feel comparatively pale and unfulfilling. GRRM will need to pull off a miracle in ADwD to convince me there is more about Tyrion worth saying.
Jon is almost in the same place as Dany. He is closer to a plot device than an independent character. However, unlike Tyrion, I think Jon has the potential to break out of that depending on what GRRM does with him. At least he still has the whole unknown parentage thing going for him. Is Jon an author's darling? Yeah, duh.
I would be a fool to claim otherwise. If GRRM really wants to shock me he will kill Jon before the last book. That would be on the level of Eddard's death in terms of sheer surprise factor; mainly because I doubt he *wants* to screw with Jon any more than he does Dany.
You know who else feels like a character, as much as it pains me to say? Cersei. She is a bit one note at times being such an obviously self serving person; but, her place in the story has never felt set in stone. Cersei had to stay one step ahead of her enemies at every turn to stay on top. Cersei is also deeply flawed. It was only until very recently that she put others to shame in the scheming and manipulation department. The only character that comes close to giving Cersei a run for her money is Littlefinger. She began as sort of villainous antagonist, and gradually shifted into just another character in the tapestry that is GRRM's world. A thoroughly despicable and warped character, but a character nonetheless.
It is not a matter of needing a sword to accomplish one's goals. I think all the female characters I named have wits, and I particularly appreciated them in Cersei and Dany.
To share my thoughts on traits you mentioned: Dany does not come across as charismatic. Rather, GRRM *tells* me she is charismatic. However, what GRRM *shows* me is that she is authoritative, resilient, and clever--not charismatic. Take where the HBO series is currently. Does Dany command respect through sheer charisma? Or is it because she is responsible for bringing back a species long since believed extinct?
I agree Dany possesses wits and uses them well--especially late into the second book and most of "A Storm of Swords." That is actually the only part of her character I always liked. Unfortunately, I am getting a strong vibe that her wits are becoming less relevant as the story progresses. The easier her successes seem, the less impressed I will be by them. It is also getting harder to see Dany as more than an author's darling and plot device because of that. Dany is clearly going to be important to the overall tale, and for that she probably has to suceed. Therefore, a lack of tension in her chapters is practically a given now. That in turn diminishes my interest in her; and contributes to her image as an author's darling, or others are apt to claim, a Mary Sue.
Modifié par Seagloom, 18 juin 2011 - 04:32 .
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it's spoilery. Something I can point out that's not spoilery is that for a long time Dany never realizes that the man responsible for her near-poisoining is her closest advisor. She makes mistakes, she grows. She's not a Sue. And "plot armor"? So if you aren't dead, you're a Sue?
I will add a disclaimer at the top of my post to hopefully spare any others that fate.
