11084 réponses à ce sujet

[Catspaw]

Thanks for the explanation, Giantevilhead. Unfortunately, I've never seen the Star Trek you mentioned as your example, but I get the idea. There is no doubt GRRM loves her more than the other characters. Now watch, in DWD, he'll finally punish her.

Dany's Unsullied are infantry fighters, not officers, leaders, or guards. Barriston calls that to her attention. They are not trained or equipped for the type of military help she needs in her conquered cities. This may come back to hurt her.

I've started reading by PoV across all the books. I don't know if I'll be able to non-stop read Dany, though. She's the only character who irritates me. Although it might be worth it for the visions in FFC. It's an interesting way to re-read.

[BigEvil]

Indeed, I can understand seeing is believing. Still, there are three books left in the series (if GRRM sticks to seven and doesn't split them up further) and the higher Dany rises the further she potentially has to fall. Since I only read the books a couple of months before the show started I've not waited as long for cracks to appear as others will have, but I'm used to long running series of books so I'm taking a longer view of things (for those who have read them, the Gaunt's Ghosts series of books is one I've been reading from the beginning and I waited impatiently for a certain character to get his comeuppance. Now I'm more patient of long series.)

Maybe he'll play it safe and she will become a true Mary Sue, in which case I'll decry the Sueness along with others. But then again, given the reaction of some to the tv series, so many people believed Ned Stark to be the main protagonist until his neck Payne (That joke physically hurt me, and others might hurt me for making it). I wonder if GRRM is building Dany up to have a horrendous end that makes Ned's look like a warm-up act. I'm kind of hoping the series will end without a happy conclusion.

[SarEnyaDor]

Meh, I don't think Dany is a Sue at all. I don't think any of the characters are. They are all threads in a tapestry, subtly woven together and pulling any of them out, no matter how insignificant would ruin the whole work - for the books at least. In the show I think Dany and Jon especially suffer from the lack of internal dialogue. I liked Jon alot in the books, in the show I find myself just hoping he'll stop mouth-breathing and we'll get back to King's Landing.

Plus, in the books they are all so young. Dany was 14. Despite growing to love Khal Drogo in time, she was totally sold as a glorified sex slave with title to an older man by her abusive brother for the prospects of an army. Her mother died giving birth to her after every other member of her family was brutally killed and spent her entire 14 years running from assassins and begging for food and shelter - she sort of deserves some "easy" victories for a while. Though I'd argue that aside from the fact she did prevail, none of her wins were come by that easy... we just haven't seen her pay as dearly for her mistakes yet as some others (Arya, Robb, Ned) have but it doesn't mean they aren't on the horizon. I personally think sending away a certain person will come back to bite her in the arse in the long run.

Though honestly, I am more intensely curious about learning about the divide at the Citadel and what that means to everyone. As much as I want to know what was happening with everyone i didn't hear about in Feast, I hope GRRM doesn't just leave us hanging with that plot till the next one.

As for the show, after seeing how downplayed the wights were, I have lower expectations for Dany's last scene of the season, but still really want to see how they do it.

[Seagloom]

Neck Payne? lol. Cripes, I'm dying here. XD That falls under the it's so bad, it's good category.

As for Dany, I'm not hoping she utterly fails in the worst way imaginable. I don't know what I want to happen with her. What I do know is she's running out of steam. GRRM needs to start mixing things up if he wants me to care about her more.

@Chris - I don't know. The PoV characters GRRM targets seem very... specific, if you catch my drift.

Modifié par Seagloom, 18 juin 2011 - 11:01 .

[Seagloom]

@Sar - There are other character that had it rough and received no "grace period" for two books running. Dany did not believe Viserys when he claimed they were still being chased by assassins. I doubt those thoughts plagued her. Most of Dany's hardship was experienced through the physical and emotional abuse dished out by Viserys. While having to beg damaged her trust in others, I would argue Viserys was the root of her suffering. She overcame that before the first book was over.

If I was examining Dany's life in a vacuum, I would feel sympathetic toward her after the crap she went through. It is when I look at her from a reader's near omniscient perspective that issues crop up.

Maybe I would be more favorably inclined to Dany if she did pay for mistakes half as much as Starks do. Hard to say. In any case, I think I beat my opinion on this into the ground. Some of you might think I am this hardcore Dany hater now. Truly, I just started finding her mediocre somewhere in ACoK and my apathy hit a low point during ASoS. I almost wish I disliked her as much as Cersei. Maybe then I would enjoy her chapters more.

It's GRRM's fault. I would probably not be as critical of Dany's story if he did not craft his world into a craphole where no one is happy for long. I read series with truer Mary Sues that were more interesting than Dany because the story was framed around them in a way that kept my attention. For example, the early Anita Blake novels and to a lesser extent, the "Kushiel's Legacy" series. Anita was very much a Mary Sue practically from the get go. It was only when LKH shifted the series into romance novel territory that Anita's Sue traits started getting out of hand.

I apologize for mentioning LKH in the same post as GRRM, but it had to be done.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 juin 2011 - 12:07 .

[SarEnyaDor]

Well, I can't fault you feeling that way, considering how many spectacularly gut-wrenching things were going on with the Stark family in Clash and Storm... just hers being less crappy for a very brief 2 years than someone elses life during that time doesn't suddenly make her life golden. I fully anticipate either her turning into someone I despise or dying horribly before the series is done. I mean I really hate Cersei, but I sort of feel bad about where she was at when last we saw her in Feast.

I may be overly empathetic, however.

[Seagloom]

Naw. I think you are fine. If anything, I am being too analytical. You missed my gloat-tastic post for "A Golden Crown". I totally hated on Viserys and complained the scene was not drawn out enough. ASoIaF brings out the worst in me.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 juin 2011 - 12:35 .

[Addai]

The main reason I care about Dany is that she looks the least ****ed up of anyone who could take the throne. So I'm rooting for her. I hope she kicks ass and forgets names.

GO DANY

lol... anyway, finale weekend is upon us! 

Modifié par Addai67, 19 juin 2011 - 04:09 .

[Addai]

...which I found to be a great dramatic moment that showed she is fit to lead, not simply succeeding out of raw power. She believes that free agency and loyalty is better than fear and oppression. At the same time she can be ruthless. What I'm hearing in the criticism of both her and Cersei is that all characters have to be the same. That would be incredibly boring.

[Seagloom]

So... episode ten... any idea what we can expect to see other than a reaction to Ned's execution and Dany's ascension? I feel sad the show is ending. We have to wait an entire year for anything new, and the place it's stopping at is painful. I didn't have to wait for "A Clash of Kings" since I got into the series later. Having to wait now blows.

[Maugrim]

Can't wait to see the final episode. I've heard of the series for awhile but hesitated to jump into the books far various reasons. Last night however I gave in and ordered the 4 paperback box set for $20 on Amazon and will be getting it on Wednesday. I'm curious what it will be like reading the first book after having watched the series and whether or not I'll be wanting to continue reading or wait to see each season of the show first. I strongly suspect the former though as I have low willpower in such matters.

[Seagloom]

You will be blown away at how many smaller details the book fills in. Every scene and character will be fleshed out. Your perspective on some of them may change too. It's a whole other experience. I envy that you get to enjoy them for the first time.

[Maugrim]

I already have 4 books lying around waiting to be read and I just doubled that number >.<  ASOIAF is jumping to the top of the list though.  I just hope the series doesn't ruin the books or the books the series for me.  But considering GRRM's own words and working on the series etc. they'll probably compliment each other. And I suspect that having been introduced to the TV series first I'll be kinder to it than some

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 19 juin 2011 - 10:17 .

[Addai]

Seagloom wrote...

So... episode ten... any idea what we can expect to see other than a reaction to Ned's execution and Dany's ascension? I feel sad the show is ending. We have to wait an entire year for anything new, and the place it's stopping at is painful. I didn't have to wait for "A Clash of Kings" since I got into the series later. Having to wait now blows.

Twitter chatter had them moving some things around to give Jaime more screen time.  I expect to see Arya on her way.  Dany, obviously.  Joffrey being bad.

It might be a bit anti-climactic after last week.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

@BigEvil

Gaunt's Ghosts is one of my favorite book series.

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...

So... episode ten... any idea what we can expect to see other than a reaction to Ned's execution and Dany's ascension? I feel sad the show is ending. We have to wait an entire year for anything new, and the place it's stopping at is painful. I didn't have to wait for "A Clash of Kings" since I got into the series later. Having to wait now blows.

Here is the official full episode description from HBO (semi spoilerish)

As tragic news spreads across the Seven Kingdoms,  Bran and Rickon share a prophetic dream, Catelyn interrogates Jaime about her sonʼs fall, and Robbʼs destiny is forever changed. After a  surprising decision by his father, Tyrion heads south. Arya assumes a  new identity in an attempt to escape Kingʼs Landing, and Sansa is
terrorized by Joffrey. At the Wall, Jon is forced to choose between the Nightʼs Watch and the family he left behind. Across the sea, Dany pays a terrible price for her love, but finds new hope.

I think this episode should be pretty good in that if they stick to the book, it leaves the characters in some fantastic final scenes and great cliffhangers. At least they're making Season 2 right away  and casting news will be fun for all the new characters. And then you've got A Dance With Dragons coming too! Its not so bad!

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 juin 2011 - 12:40 .

[Bryy_Miller]

I really wish they had not shown Dany in the ring of fire in the previews. I mean, we've already seen that fire does not hurt her.

[Joshd21]

OMG did you she what did to him with that pillow

MURDER!

[Obadiah]

Spring 2012.

So ME3, then this. Guess I'll make plans.

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 juin 2011 - 01:59 .

[MrDizazta]

DRAGONS!!!

[TJPags]

Ghost sighting!!!

Shaggydog sighting!!!

King in the North!!

Dragons!!!!!!!


I have to say, extremely well done for season 1.  I had my concerns about how it would play out, especially seeing the altered prologue.  And while I could sit here and nitpick about minor changes they made in dialogue, in characters, in scenes and such, there's no point.  While slightly different, it's just as good.

Damn long time to wait for season 2, but then I'm used to waiting for this series . . .I started reading shortly after GoT was actually published.  A 9 or 10 month wait for season 2 is nothing compared to the years I've been waiting for new books.

[Seagloom]

Joshd21 wrote...

OMG did you she what did to him with that pillow

MURDER!

Was it? Khal Drogo was already dead. His body only survived that long because of a blood magic ritual. Dany had to make the same painful decision as someone with a spouse or relative in an irreversible coma. I took it as an act of mercy.

This episode left many a dangling thread in preparation for season two. Dany's scenes were strong in this episode. I had low expectations for the dragon reveal, but it was suitably moving and managed to avoid looking too fake.

The Greatjon suggesting they secede, and everyone cheering on Robb as king of the North was also a great scene. Actually, everything with Robb and Catelyn was good. That was simply my favorite scene.

The Night's Watch marching beyond the Wall lacked the same epic quality, but I loved the part before it with everyone reciting the Oath to convince Jon to stay.

Joffrey is still a total scumbag. No shock there. I wish Sansa pushed him over despite knowing she never would. Arya was awesome as always. I also enjoyed the latest verbal sparring session between Varys and Littlefinger. It was not as clever as their previous posturing, but still good. This episode was close to perfection. It only had one weak moment:

Another freakin' Roz exposition scene! Maester Pycelle giving us a brief history lesson after their night together added nothing to the episode. It did show viewers Pycelle is not everything he seems; but we could have been shown that without the cute naked lady with the firm hips.

Now I need to wait until next Spring. That will be a looong wait.