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[BigEvil]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Problem was, it only went her way because her advesaries were idiots. Bad storytelling is what happens when characters become stupid for the sake of plot. I didn't feel any drama because I felt that Stormborn never accomplished anything. She got an army because the plot needed it.

They underestimated her.  People do that. 

Exactly. She won because they were stupid. That makes her a Mary Sue in my eyes.

You're welcome to your opinion but that's a very weak argument. If beating enemies who are stupid makes you a Mary Sue then vast numbers of characters throughout fiction are Mary Sues. Antagonists that are not main characters generally are not as smart as main characters. Why should she only fight smart enemies? Does that mean you think Tyrion is a Marty Stu because he's smarter than most of his enemies? Personally I think it's much better for a character to actually use their intelligence and every advantage they have over an enemy. If I ever have to fight someone who is not as smart as me I'm not going to walk away and say "Well, I'll go find someone smarter to fight and increase the chance of me losing."

Since most of Dany's enemies so far have been defeated during their first encounter there is nothing in the plot to indicate they became stupid for the sake of the plot. They were stupid and underestimated her from the beginning and paid for it, and it seems just as likely if they had been an enemy for another main character they would have been just as stupid and arrogant.

[Seagloom]

Gotta agree with BigEvil there. If anything, easily overcoming opponents with a reputation for being unstoppable is proof of Suedom. Why are we even still on this conversation anyway? Not like Dany is a scourge of a character when all is said and done. We should be complaining about characters like Joffrey. Talk about one note.

[Maria13]

Indeed, roll on ASoS!!!

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
We should be complaining about characters like Joffrey. Talk about one note.

Bah! Haters gonna hate the great King Joff :




And according to imdb (yeah, not exactly super credible) Gerard Butler will be Stannis!? THIS IS DRAGONSTONE!

[Addai]

They're not idiots- they are men in power, who've always had the power of life and death over others, and who think their way is the way of the world. They meet someone who seems to agree with them by purchasing the Unsullied. Then she turns and says "no, uh uh, that isn't the way it has to be- THIS is how it's going to be from now on." It's not a Sue interaction at all. It's epic, and awesome, but if there's something wrong with that- I don't want to read novels written by people who agree.

Anyway, this is a pointless discussion. It never goes anywhere. Those who think she's a Sue always will. Nothing short of a gruesome death will satisfy them.

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...
And according to imdb (yeah, not exactly super credible) Gerard Butler will be Stannis!? THIS IS DRAGONSTONE!

OH MA GAWD.  *fangirl noises*

I was right- they are bringing on major beefcake to replace Sean Bean and Jason Momoa.  I... approve!

[BigEvil]

Maybe that's what GRRM is going for though. Maybe he's feeding her relatively easy victories so when she meets a real threat in the form of a competent, intelligent enemy she'll face a serious challenge, one she might not win without significant losses. Personally if I was such an enemy I'd be weighing up the costs of hiring enough Faceless Men to assassinate Dany and kill her dragons before they're fully grown, then just watch her people fall apart without her.

I suspect if/when Dany reaches Westeros she'll be in for a rude awakening as to what her enemies are truly capable of. I suppose it once again comes down to how long of a view you're taking with the series, whether you're willing to perhaps suffer through a character you don't find interesting until something happens to change that. I know that I got bored of Sansa's chapters in the books until they started to draw me in more, but I trudged through the boring ones until they got better. There were also a couple of Bran chapters in aGoT that made me think his plot was going to devolve into constant whining about not being able to be a knight, etc, etc, but that turned around as well and I really got into the whole green dream stuff.

On the other hand, my older brother took the books after I had read them and he mostly gave up reading the Arya and Sansa chapters in favour of getting to more Tyrion. I convinced him based on what he said that the Arya chapters at least might turn around if he gave them another chance.

[Seagloom]

Gruesome death would be such a waste. I rather a character were written better than ceremoniously flushed down the toilet. :/

@Brock - Is that photo of him for real? His actor is worse than the character! Not only does he have the *audacity* to flip us the bird, but he is wearing a sweater vest! A freakin' sweater vest!!! Kill it with *FIRE*!

Also Gerard Butler as Stannis would be friggin' AWESOME. They may be making a mistake casting him, though. He is way too charismatic to play the sourpuss that is Stannis. This role requires he turn down his charm. XD

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
@Brock - Is that photo of him for real? His actor is worse than the character! Not only does he have the *audacity* of flipping us the bird, but that is a sweater vest I see?! A freakin' sweater vest?! Kill it with *FIRE*!

I think it is...then again, I'm a terrible judge of what is photoshopped on the internet.

Thinking of who could play Asha for a second and I think Claudia Black would be perfect if she were only about 10 years younger.

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 juin 2011 - 05:34 .

[twincast]

Brockololly wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I kind of read the synopsis to Game of Thrones. Trying not to do the same for Clash of Kings.

Just read the books:wizard:


Overall that was excellent. The King in the North scene lacked a little of the same "oomph" it had in the book I think, maybe since they put it so early on in the episode, whereas in the book its like a bunch of quick punches with  Drogo dying, Tyrion being named Hand, Jon staying with the Nights Watch and going beyond the Wall, and then a big one-two punch of Robb being named King in the North and then followed up by Dany and the dragons.

agreed.

Brockololly wrote...

Couple of minor quibbles:

-I don't like Shae. I didn't care too much for her in the book either, but in the show it seems they're trying to make her more than she was in the book. Meh.

-Pycelle's scene and the Littlefinger/Varys scene. The stuff not from the book just seems to be a little lacking. Just seems redundant.

-Dany's hair didn't burn off! I won't complain that the dragon's weren't breastfeeding like in the books, but I was a little bummed out they didn't have her hair burned to a crisp like the books. I always thought that was kind of cool, maybe in a symbolic sort of way in that she was truly starting anew with the dragons and all.

I loved Arya's scenes and I loved how we got to see a quick look at Rorge, Biter, Jaqen and Gendry!

The dragons looked pretty good too! And I loved the little montage for the Night's Watch at the end.

I actually enjoyed Shae a lot in the books. The TV version though is just ... meh.
Other then the whopping four minutes of redundant lesposition I liked almost every non-book scene and especially the Petyr/Varys ones are a joy to watch. And Pycelle's serves to show what a dirty weasel he really is (and the stretching was a nice comedic moment IMHO) - I like it.
To me the breastfeeding's actually more important than the burned hair, but neither's that important. Anyway, Dragons!
And yeah, Arry's great.

Brockololly wrote...

And I liked how they tossed in Lancel with Cersei too- I don't think that was in book 1 at all, but it sets things up regarding Cersei a bit [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

For a moment I thought it was Loras and was all confused by his dialogue.

Modifié par twincast, 20 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[Eski.Moe]

Loved it from beginning to end. Can't be bothered nitpicking because it was just an emotionally awesome journey. Teared up for a little when watching the aftermath of Ned's death and the dragons at the end. Man, so much more than I would have expected.

[Addai]

BigEvil wrote...
On the other hand, my older brother took the books after I had read them and he mostly gave up reading the Arya and Sansa chapters in favour of getting to more Tyrion. I convinced him based on what he said that the Arya chapters at least might turn around if he gave them another chance.

Dude's gonna miss some major events skipping Sansa's chapters.  He at least needs to pay attention when the Tyrells show up.

[Seagloom]

Sean Beam revealed in a recent interview he saw the OA guy's reaction and had a good laugh over it. XD Which reminds me, I need to check out that guy's review for the season finale.

[BigEvil]

Addai67 wrote...

BigEvil wrote...
On the other hand, my older brother took the books after I had read them and he mostly gave up reading the Arya and Sansa chapters in favour of getting to more Tyrion. I convinced him based on what he said that the Arya chapters at least might turn around if he gave them another chance.

Dude's gonna miss some major events skipping Sansa's chapters.  He at least needs to pay attention when the Tyrells show up.

Indeed, but there's only so much that can be done to convince someone not to skip things they don't like or find boring, especially if you're trying to not spoil everything.

At least he's not as bad as some people. I was reading on another forum someone had quit reading aGoT after Ned's death because they didn't see the point of reading the series after the main character was killed. I facepalmed.

[HoonDing]

Brockololly wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
We should be complaining about characters like Joffrey. Talk about one note.

Bah! Haters gonna hate the great King Joff :




And according to imdb (yeah, not exactly super credible) Gerard Butler will be Stannis!? THIS IS DRAGONSTONE!

I love that kid. Along with Peter Dinklage, he has been owning the entire show.

Modifié par virumor, 20 juin 2011 - 08:11 .

[Obadiah]

BigEvil wrote...
...
I was reading on another forum someone had quit reading aGoT after Ned's death because they didn't see the point of reading the series after the main character was killed. I facepalmed.

I understand that. No matter how good a story is, that will happen if it only contains characters you don't care about.

[Costin_Razvan]

And according to imdb (yeah, not exactly super credible) Gerard Butler will be Stannis!? THIS IS DRAGONSTONE!

WoAH there, just WOW.

[Volus Warlord]

Brockololly wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
We should be complaining about characters like Joffrey. Talk about one note.

Bah! Haters gonna hate the great King Joff :




And according to imdb (yeah, not exactly super credible) Gerard Butler will be Stannis!? THIS IS DRAGONSTONE!

Wow, he just about screams pillow biter.

[Bryy_Miller]

Brockololly wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I kind of read the synopsis to Game of Thrones. Trying not to do the same for Clash of Kings.

Just read the books:wizard:

I certainly will at least dig nto Thrones, but from everything I've heard from everyone, the books are extremely long-winded, and I've read enough long-winded fantasy books. I could hardly get through The Great Hunt.

[Brockololly]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
I certainly will at least dig nto Thrones, but from everything I've heard from everyone, the books are extremely long-winded, and I've read enough long-winded fantasy books. I could hardly get through The Great Hunt.

I can see how it might be difficult to get into Game of Thrones up to when Bran gets tossed out the window, as its setting things up with lots of proper nouns and so forth like any book setting the scene.

I actually thought the books move at a pretty good pace- it helps that the chapters are generally pretty short (I think at least) and stick to the POV of one character and often end on a little cliffhanger which kind of just keeps you moving along. They certainly aren't short books, but I'd consider myself a fairly slow reader and I plowed through A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords over the past month or so.

[MrDizazta]

I will pray to the Old Gods and New Gods if Gerard Butler will be Stannis Baratheon

I mean the joke write themselves here.

[Addai]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
I certainly will at least dig nto Thrones, but from everything I've heard from everyone, the books are extremely long-winded, and I've read enough long-winded fantasy books. I could hardly get through The Great Hunt.

Who is spreading such damnable heresies?  I inhaled the books.  There may have been a few places where I got feeling impatient and wanted to get on to other POV characters, but they are very, very readable.

[TJPags]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I kind of read the synopsis to Game of Thrones. Trying not to do the same for Clash of Kings.

Just read the books:wizard:

I certainly will at least dig nto Thrones, but from everything I've heard from everyone, the books are extremely long-winded, and I've read enough long-winded fantasy books. I could hardly get through The Great Hunt.

These books are a much faster, much easier read, IMO, than anything Jordan ever wrote.  I'll concede GoT starts a little slowly, but it picks up, and keeps going.  Once you finish that book, if you have any affinity for either the story itself or individual characters plot lines, subsequent books are easy reads as well.

The biggest problem is not reading his books - its waiting for his books.  As Addai, I also inhale his books, generally ripping through them in 2 days, 3 tops - and that's reading generally at lunch, and for about 3 hours at night.  They're generally good enough that I immediately reread the series after a new book, so I generally read it twice within, say, 2 weeks at this point.

If you have interest in the books, I really suggest giving GoT a fair try.  I'm expecting you'll find it worth it.  But don't just quit the book after, say, 200 pages - finish it, then decide.

However, if you become frustrated by the wait for future books, well . . . join the club.

[Obadiah]

Addai67 wrote...
I inhaled the books.
...

So you're admitting addiction. Interesting...

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 juin 2011 - 11:41 .