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HBO's Game of Thrones


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#1926
android654

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AxisEvolve wrote...

Lakhi wrote...

The infanticide scene... gah, I'd forgotten about that. It REALLY made my blood boil at cersei (as I just loathe things like that).

I was planning on rereading ACoK but I think I'll hold off and maybe just reread ADWD.

Wasn't it implied (on the show) that Joffrey ordered that attack? I'm pretty sure in the book it was assumed to be Cersei who did it. But they may have hinted that it was Joffrey at some point, I can't remember. The TV series likes to amplify subtleties.

Ah, I'm confused. 


It's heavily implied that it was Cersei's doing and not Joffrey's. Think back to her scene with Little Finger. It's a show of force once she knew that her secret was common knowledge. Joffrey hasn't shown himself to be clever enough to orchestrate something like that, and he only had suspicions of his father philandering adventures.

#1927
Addai

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AxisEvolve wrote...
Wasn't it implied (on the show) that Joffrey ordered that attack? I'm pretty sure in the book it was assumed to be Cersei who did it. But they may have hinted that it was Joffrey at some point, I can't remember. The TV series likes to amplify subtleties.

Ah, I'm confused. 

I don't remember the details on how it went down in the books.  In the TV series, they showed Joffrey as being the one who instigates it.  So he's being shown as responsible, whether he actually gave the order or Cersei did.  I think it's a good development, as showing Joffrey increasingly out of even his mother's control.  That scene between them was great- you could see the "oh ****" look on her face.


@android- I don't agree, I think the scene with Joffrey was meant to show that he's drunk with his newfound power and is on a ruthless killing spree.  The scene with Littlefinger was about Arya, and I think to set up Littlefinger realizing that without the Baratheons and Starks around to check them, the Lannisters are too powerful.  His schemes come back to bite him.  Ah, it's all so delicious.  Posted Image

Modifié par Addai67, 02 avril 2012 - 09:03 .


#1928
AxisEvolve

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Hmmm... Maybe they're attempting to make Cersei "less evil" so when her AFFC/ADWD scenes happen the audience can better empathize with her. As for Joffrey, well no spoilers. But they probably aren't afraid to brand him as pure evil.

#1929
android654

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Addai67 wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...
Wasn't it implied (on the show) that Joffrey ordered that attack? I'm pretty sure in the book it was assumed to be Cersei who did it. But they may have hinted that it was Joffrey at some point, I can't remember. The TV series likes to amplify subtleties.

Ah, I'm confused. 

I don't remember the details on how it went down in the books.  In the TV series, they showed Joffrey as being the one who instigates it.  So he's being shown as responsible, whether he actually gave the order or Cersei did.  I think it's a good development, as showing Joffrey increasingly out of even his mother's control.  That scene between them was great- you could see the "oh ****" look on her face.


@android- I don't agree, I think the scene with Joffrey was meant to show that he's drunk with his newfound power and is on a ruthless killing spree.  The scene with Littlefinger was about Arya, and I think to set up Littlefinger realizing that without the Baratheons and Starks around to check them, the Lannisters are too powerful.  His schemes come back to bite him.  Ah, it's all so delicious.  Posted Image


I saw it as an attempt at misdirection. Yes, Joffrey is drunk with power but we have innumerable examples of such behavior. Cersei however has shown that she does have influence but she fears angering her son. While the conversation with Little Finger wasn't directly about her and her brother his reference, "knowledge is power," was his not so subtle way of telling Cersei he knows of  the family's secret dealings, especially her incestuous relationship. This kind of forethought is not something Joffrey has shown to have, nor did he have in depth knowledge of Robert's sexual escapades, but Cersei did. She referenced his affinity for wh**res and other women quite often. The campaign of infanticide has her stench all over it.

#1930
Brockololly

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Addai67 wrote...
The book's prologue is kind of abrupt and slow, too.  You have Cressen mumbling over the comet and I remember thinking "who is this old guy and why do I care?"  The scene with Cressen and Melisandre is a must, I think.  It sets up Melisandre as someone who's got mysterious power.


True, I was just thinking more in terms of how the prologue gave a bit better intro to everything around Dragonstone and the set up with who Mel actually is and what she represents. Along with Patchface and Stannis' daughter with the grayscale and so forth. But I guess that sort of stuff can wait.




Addai67 wrote...
I know, me too!  Mance  Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image  I want Kevin Kidd (Lucius Vorenus from HBO's Rome) to play him.

Season three is going to be the bomb.


Although, since they're splitting up A Storm of Swords, season 4 should be awesome too...I'd love it if James Purefoy was Mance...either Mance or Euron, he'd  be perfect for either of those roles.
Posted Image

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Honestly though, I'm tired of
Joffrey's character. He's boring and clearly designed to just be hated
and I'd rather he die very soon.
 


At least in the book, I got the impression he was more under control of Cersei still at this point. They seem to really be trying to make Cersei more sympathatic and making Joff completely inhuman. He's still a royal **** in the books, but he seemed more real there, like a petulant teen boy thats indulging in a power fantasy but occasionally taken down to reality by his elders, who are really pulling the strings. In the show it almost seems he's taking too much control. 

Addai67 wrote...
Oh... great introduction for
Dolorous Edd.  "I was born in a place like this.  Then I fell on hard
times."  LOL  Dropped in nonchalantly, just as it should be.


YES!  So many good little moments in this episode. Dolorous Edd is my man, the human Eeyore:D

#1931
Addai

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James Purefoy is who I'd like to see as the Viper. *steam*

#1932
HoonDing

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Lakhi wrote...

The infanticide scene... gah, I'd forgotten about that. It REALLY made my blood boil at cersei (as I just loathe things like that).

I was planning on rereading ACoK but I think I'll hold off and maybe just reread ADWD.

The infanticide was completely pointless too, since they were all the children of random ****s and peasants. It's just random evil inserted for shock value.

Heck, King Robert probably conceived at least half a score bastards on the way from King's Landing to Winterfell alone.

Modifié par virumor, 02 avril 2012 - 09:30 .

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#1933
Costin_Razvan

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Was there anyone else who loved the scene when Tirion arrives at King's landing when he goes to talk with Cersei? It was like the Lord had arrived to his castle.

#1934
Addai

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Yep Costin, Tyrion stole the show in those two scenes. Absolutely spot on, with Joffrey, Sansa (*sniffle*) and then with Cersei.

#1935
billy the squid

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Addai67 wrote...

Yep Costin, Tyrion stole the show in those two scenes. Absolutely spot on, with Joffrey, Sansa (*sniffle*) and then with Cersei.


I've just watched the episode after a binge, watching the whole of season 1 in a couple of days. And that is spot on, Tyrion is an awesome character, both in this episode and season 1.

#1936
Aeowyn

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Brockololly wrote...

At least in the book, I got the impression he was more under control of Cersei still at this point. They seem to really be trying to make Cersei more sympathatic and making Joff completely inhuman. He's still a royal **** in the books, but he seemed more real there, like a petulant teen boy thats indulging in a power fantasy but occasionally taken down to reality by his elders, who are really pulling the strings. In the show it almost seems he's taking too much control. 


Really? I didn't notice a difference, only madness conceived by incest. A parallel to King Aerys. 

#1937
TJPags

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Aeowyn wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

At least in the book, I got the impression he was more under control of Cersei still at this point. They seem to really be trying to make Cersei more sympathatic and making Joff completely inhuman. He's still a royal **** in the books, but he seemed more real there, like a petulant teen boy thats indulging in a power fantasy but occasionally taken down to reality by his elders, who are really pulling the strings. In the show it almost seems he's taking too much control. 


Really? I didn't notice a difference, only madness conceived by incest. A parallel to King Aerys. 


No, it's not madness, IMO, it's more power hungry, out of control adolescent.

Robert pretty much ignored him, from what I can tell (both in the books and in the series) while Cersei filled his head with thoughts of entitlement.  Nobody did anything to control the kid.  He was an ass when he was in Winterfell early on (in the books, don't recall how he was portrayed in the show).  He just became a bigger ass when the crown went on his head. 

Look at the nonsense with Ned's beheading - kid King, makes that call, nobody can back him down.  He does it solely to demonstrate his power - and then grows to like that power, which leads to more such episodes - baby killing, as we've seen, and others yet to come.

Then again, look at Cersei with Littlefinger.  Granted, he somewhat provoked her, but what did she do?  Not make a threat, or say something subtly - she went right to "seize him, kill him, let him go" - and then went further with "turn around, take 3 steps, close your eyes", etc.  She's as power mad as he is.


Now, I do think they're making her a bit more sympathetic at times, for reasons to come as those who've read the books are aware.  I think they're doing a poor job when they throw in things like this.

#1938
Costin_Razvan

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The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.

#1939
TJPags

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.

#1940
android654

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TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?

#1941
TJPags

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android654 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?


Haven't read the books, have you?

#1942
android654

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TJPags wrote...

android654 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?


Haven't read the books, have you?


...no... But, I will! You know, eventually.

#1943
KnightofPhoenix

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android654 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?


The populace was clearly angered by this.

If you have to kill babies (and I understand the rationale), you better do it with subtelty.

#1944
android654

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

android654 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?


The populace was clearly angered by this.

If you have to kill babies (and I understand the rationale), you better do it with subtelty.


I'm not claiming to be an expert on medieval political science, but I'd doubt outcries from those wronged was little more than an annoyance to kings. Unless of course those individuals took a physical approach rather than just voicing their concerns.

#1945
Brockololly

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The populace was clearly angered by this.

If you have to kill babies (and I understand the rationale), you better do it with subtelty.


True.

Although, I 'm probably going to Hell for laughing when the gold cloaks pushed that one kid off the stairs into the water and then drowned him. It just looked kind of funny.


Addai67 wrote...

James Purefoy is who I'd like to see as the Viper. *steam*


Oh, wow, yes. I had completely forgotten all about that. James Purefoy just has to be in the show next season somehow:wizard:

#1946
KnightofPhoenix

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android654 wrote...
I'm not claiming to be an expert on medieval political science, but I'd doubt outcries from those wronged was little more than an annoyance to kings. Unless of course those individuals took a physical approach rather than just voicing their concerns.


Judging from the trailers, they probably will at some point.

But it's never good for a king to have the reputation of a baby killer.

#1947
android654

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

android654 wrote...
I'm not claiming to be an expert on medieval political science, but I'd doubt outcries from those wronged was little more than an annoyance to kings. Unless of course those individuals took a physical approach rather than just voicing their concerns.


Judging from the trailers, they probably will at some point.

But it's never good for a king to have the reputation of a baby killer.


History has it's fair share of ruthless kings, and infanticide isn't entirely unkown in our history.

It's abundantly clear that this boy is no king.

#1948
KnightofPhoenix

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Ruthless is one thing. Massacring babies in broad day light with no attempt at subterfuge is another. That's just stupid.

#1949
TJPags

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android654 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

android654 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The babies being killed were Robert's bastard, if he actually ordered that he was smart to do so.



I know who they were.  I know it was smart to kill them.

It would have been SMARTER to kill them less publicly.


It's not like it matters. Who's going to complain to King Joffrey that the King's Guards came and killed their son?


The populace was clearly angered by this.

If you have to kill babies (and I understand the rationale), you better do it with subtelty.


I'm not claiming to be an expert on medieval political science, but I'd doubt outcries from those wronged was little more than an annoyance to kings. Unless of course those individuals took a physical approach rather than just voicing their concerns.


True, kings could - and did, historically - overlook the complaints of the "little people".  Sometimes it worked out, sometimes not.

In Game of Thrones, however, this boy king is inciting the populace at a time when his right to the throne has been called into question, and there are 3 other claimants to the throne.

Sometimes, although the King may not listen, nobles will.  He risks his support with other houses - do they want to be aligned with someone as ruthless as he is?  After all, many of them supported Robert's rebellion when we had the last lunatic on the throne.

Basically, it's impossible to be universally loved.  But ignorantly pissing off your subjects is pretty dumb.

Of course, Joffrey IS pretty dumb.  Mom ain't much smarter.

#1950
Costin_Razvan

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ruthless is one thing. Massacring babies in broad day light with no attempt at subterfuge is another. That's just stupid.


On that I agree, though if I recall in the books he was being subtle about it ( Haven't read it in a while so forgot ).

Either way. Joeffrey is still better then Alistair and Cailan, especially Cailan. Still I'll very much enjoy the episode when Tirion stops this arrogant fool.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 03 avril 2012 - 02:20 .