11084 réponses à ce sujet

[AxisEvolve]

twincast wrote...

No, he doesn't.

Which is part of why his story ends up being one of my favorites.

Agreed. His chapters practically saved A Dance with Dragons. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

TJPags wrote...
Of course they can't hold it.  Why would they want to, really?  Especially in Winter.

But - they raid, pillage, plunder.  It builds up their wealth/goods, seriously weakens Robb.  Which means the North can't easily slap him down.  And a smart Lannister would let Robb run around after the Greyjoys while they deal with other things.  Or just hit Robb in the rear.  And eventually turn on Renly.

Which gives the Greyjoys another potential target to attack.

The Ironborn are raiders, not farmers and herders.  The North is empty right now, it's a great target.  Go in, steal, kill, etc . . . then leave when or if Robb turns around.

Remains a short term plan befitting the mind of a simple raider and not one who seeks to build a kingdom.
Eventually, once a winner re-unites the 7 kingdoms, the Greyjoys will once again have their ass kicked.

Which is why it's in their long term interest to prolong the fighting between the Lannisters and Starks, with the former being as it stands their only natural ally.

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...

The Ironborn are raiders, not farmers and herders.  The North is empty right now, it's a great target.  Go in, steal, kill, etc . . . then leave when or if Robb turns around.

That might be how they presented it in the books (I can't remember really, it's been a while), but in the TV series they make it seem like a long-term conquest.  NotAsha says "I always wanted a castle" and Balon is talking about taking a year to lay siege to Winterfell.  Not a dash-pillage-and- run thing.

[Costin_Razvan]

In the books I always got the impression that do not want to ally Robb since the Lannisters are too strong and Casterly Rock, which is what Theon wanted them to take with their longboats, too damned well fortified, instead they decide to fight the Starks since they are weaker. So yes it's a raiding campaign.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[TJPags]

Addai67 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The Ironborn are raiders, not farmers and herders.  The North is empty right now, it's a great target.  Go in, steal, kill, etc . . . then leave when or if Robb turns around.

That might be how they presented it in the books (I can't remember really, it's been a while), but in the TV series they make it seem like a long-term conquest.  NotAsha says "I always wanted a castle" and Balon is talking about taking a year to lay siege to Winterfell.  Not a dash-pillage-and- run thing.

It was more vague in the books, but as Costin noted, my impression was that it was a long term raid (stay as long as safe, in other words) than an attempt to establish a permanent empire there.

The permanent empire aspect isn't completely off the wall, either.  The current fighting between the other kings would allow them to perhaps reach, take and fortify Moat Caillan.  And we all - those who read the books, particularly the last - know how important that location is to the North.

[Addai]

FYI, one of the writers Bryan Cogman gave an interview today and said to think of this and future seasons as looser adaptations. They are going to move stuff around rather than stick to book 2- season 2 etc.

[AxisEvolve]

Addai67 wrote...

FYI, one of the writers Bryan Cogman gave an interview today and said to think of this and future seasons as looser adaptations. They are going to move stuff around rather than stick to book 2- season 2 etc.

I'm....... scared.

[TJPags]

Addai67 wrote...

FYI, one of the writers Bryan Cogman gave an interview today and said to think of this and future seasons as looser adaptations. They are going to move stuff around rather than stick to book 2- season 2 etc.

I just read an article about such an interview.

I worry only if they change the story.  If they alter the timing of actually showing us things - which is what the article I read implied, or at least what I inferred from it - in order for it to make more "TV sense", I'd be okay with that.

When they change things, though (simple example, Asha/Yara) . . I become very concerned.

[Nameless one7]

I wish they wouldn't change anything from the books, I think most of their choices to deviate from the books have been bad.

[Capt. Obvious]

Nameless one7 wrote...

I wish they wouldn't change anything from the books, I think most of their choices to deviate from the books have been bad.

I think the opposite actually. If anything, the TV series has improved on stuff from the books, such as making Cersei into a more sympathetic character whereas in the books her character had pretty much deteriorated into a 2-dimensional Disney villain by AFFC.

[Sylvianus]

Whoops.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 avril 2012 - 12:50 .

[Nameless one7]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

I wish they wouldn't change anything from the books, I think most of their choices to deviate from the books have been bad.

I think the opposite actually. If anything, the TV series has improved on stuff from the books, such as making Cersei into a more sympathetic character whereas in the books her character had pretty much deteriorated into a 2-dimensional Disney villain by AFFC.

I would of prefered the Hound telling Sansa the story of Sir Gregor, as well as Shae staying how she was in the books and Bronn not being Captain of the guards.

I'm scared if they deviate from the source material to much that they will write themselves into a corner.

[LTD]

There have been few scenes I've missed greatly and couple that have felt highly unnecessary. It's easy to forget the big picture though. Generally speaking the show has been way more loayal to source material than one can reasonably expect really.  Different mediums and all that obvious.

Would it really feel so right and grand if HBO had chosen their only purpose is to recreate every single plot detail, character and event with borderline religious accuracy? If something as insignificant as Asha -> Yara (or her looks for that matter) is actually such an issue to people, how on earth can you cope with such a beautifully handsome  Imp? Dinklage is way hotter than vast majority of BWN users for cryin out loud.

Modifié par LTD, 19 avril 2012 - 01:10 .

[Capt. Obvious]

LTD wrote...

Let's not forget the big picture here though. Generally speaking the show has been way more loayal to source material than one can reasonably expect really. 

Would it really feel so right and grand if HBO had chosen their only purpose is to recreate every single plot detail, character and event with borderline religious accuracy?

Indeed. I actually look forward to the changes. To me, the TV series is a chance to correct on the mistakes or shortcomings GRRM made and to make certain aspects of the books more enjoyable.

For instance, I also liked the fact that in the TV series, Tyrion didn't allow the prostitute in Maester Pycelle's room to be hurt or raped whereas in the books, she most certainly was and Tyrion didn't care a jot. When I read that scene in the book, it seemed weird that Tyrion would allow rape to happen, even to a prostitute. I mean, this is the same guy who was traumatized by someone being gang-banged right in front him.

So I was glad, that in the TV series, Tyrion's character was a little bit more consistent. It's little things like that that make the TV series worth watching.

Not that there aren't some changes that annoy me, mind you.

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 19 avril 2012 - 01:14 .

[twincast]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

I wish they wouldn't change anything from the books, I think most of their choices to deviate from the books have been bad.

I think the opposite actually. If anything, the TV series has improved on stuff from the books, such as making Cersei into a more sympathetic character whereas in the books her character had pretty much deteriorated into a 2-dimensional Disney villain by AFFC.

Mileage. It varies.

[Capt. Obvious]

twincast wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

I wish they wouldn't change anything from the books, I think most of their choices to deviate from the books have been bad.

I think the opposite actually. If anything, the TV series has improved on stuff from the books, such as making Cersei into a more sympathetic character whereas in the books her character had pretty much deteriorated into a 2-dimensional Disney villain by AFFC.

Mileage. It varies.

It's not a matter of opinion in this case. She really was poorly written, especially in AFFC. Why? Because the author was too focused on making the reader hate her instead of putting substance into the character. This isn't just me saying this. A lot of fans have said the same thing as well.

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 19 avril 2012 - 01:21 .

[TJPags]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

LTD wrote...

Let's not forget the big picture here though. Generally speaking the show has been way more loayal to source material than one can reasonably expect really. 

Would it really feel so right and grand if HBO had chosen their only purpose is to recreate every single plot detail, character and event with borderline religious accuracy?

Indeed. I actually look forward to the changes. To me, the TV series is a chance to correct on the mistakes or shortcomings GRRM made and to make certain aspects of the books more enjoyable.

For instance, I also liked the fact that in the TV series, Tyrion didn't allow the prostitute in Maester Pycelle's room to be hurt or raped whereas in the books, she most certainly was and Tyrion didn't care a jot. When I read that scene in the book, it seemed weird that Tyrion would allow rape to happen, even to a prostitute. I mean, this is the same guy who was traumatized by someone being gang-banged right in front him.

So I was glad, that in the TV series, Tyrion's character was a little bit more consistent. It's little things like that that make the TV series worth watching.

Not that there aren't some changes that annoy me, mind you.

Umm, the **** with Pycelle was most certainly raped in the book?  This is not the book topic, so I won't go into detail, but I believe that's inaccurate, or at best, supposition.  There was no rape that took place in that scene.

[Capt. Obvious]

TJPags wrote...

Capt. Obvious wrote...

LTD wrote...

Let's not forget the big picture here though. Generally speaking the show has been way more loayal to source material than one can reasonably expect really. 

Would it really feel so right and grand if HBO had chosen their only purpose is to recreate every single plot detail, character and event with borderline religious accuracy?

Indeed. I actually look forward to the changes. To me, the TV series is a chance to correct on the mistakes or shortcomings GRRM made and to make certain aspects of the books more enjoyable.

For instance, I also liked the fact that in the TV series, Tyrion didn't allow the prostitute in Maester Pycelle's room to be hurt or raped whereas in the books, she most certainly was and Tyrion didn't care a jot. When I read that scene in the book, it seemed weird that Tyrion would allow rape to happen, even to a prostitute. I mean, this is the same guy who was traumatized by someone being gang-banged right in front him.

So I was glad, that in the TV series, Tyrion's character was a little bit more consistent. It's little things like that that make the TV series worth watching.

Not that there aren't some changes that annoy me, mind you.

Umm, the **** with Pycelle was most certainly raped in the book?  This is not the book topic, so I won't go into detail, but I believe that's inaccurate, or at best, supposition.  There was no rape that took place in that scene.

I reread the chapter where this scene took place. You're right. Shagga intended to rape her but she was marched out of the room by Timett. My mistake.

Modifié par Capt. Obvious, 19 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...
When they change things, though (simple example, Asha/Yara) . . I become very concerned.

Bryan Cogman did say he was frustrated with that change.  Obviously it wasn't his idea.

He said that GRRM was happy with the gruesome detail of Lommy being killed by Needle.

Tyrion falling down when Cersei pushed him wasn't scripted.

[Addai]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

It's not a matter of opinion in this case. She really was poorly written, especially in AFFC. Why? Because the author was too focused on making the reader hate her instead of putting substance into the character. This isn't just me saying this. A lot of fans have said the same thing as well.

Cersei fans are a weird bunch.  Not liking that she's a "bad seed" is still a matter of opinion.

[TJPags]

I really think Cersei was simply written as someone spinning out of control, not so much 2 dimensional from laziness.

I also don't see her as much more sympathetic in the series at this point, either.

[twincast]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

It's not a matter of opinion in this case. She really was poorly written, especially in AFFC. Why? Because the author was too focused on making the reader hate her instead of putting substance into the character. This isn't just me saying this. A lot of fans have said the same thing as well.

Now you're just trolling.

[naughty99]

I used to be on Game of Thrones like you guys but then I took...

Modifié par naughty99, 20 avril 2012 - 02:41 .

[Nameless one7]

NM.

Modifié par Nameless one7, 20 avril 2012 - 01:06 .

[Brockololly]

Playing the Witcher 2 and coming across some crossbow guys taking too long to reload...


RIP Yoren