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[chunkyman]

@Naughty, You may be the first person to make me laugh at an "Arrow in the Knee" joke.

@Brock, Yoren knows how to go down in style!  

Modifié par chunkyman, 20 avril 2012 - 02:28 .

[Seagloom]

Addai67 wrote...

Cersei fans are a weird bunch.

We like Cersei because we are weird? Or are we weird for liking Cersei? Oddly, I have come to like her more as time passes. She is not the cleverest, most relatable, or altogether likeable. There are craftier, stronger, more entertaining characters in the story by far.

Yet, I find Cersei's perspective interesting--especially in contrast to other women in ASoIaF that work the system to achieve their ends, such as Catelyn.

I find Arya, Dany, Brienne, Asha, ect more compelling overall; but they are characters that to some extent are othered in their society because of their unwillingness to follow social conventions. A character like Cersei shows us another side to GRRM's world through her eyes; and does so from a place of malevolence someone like say, Sansa, would not.

Addai67 wrote...

FYI, one of the writers Bryan Cogman gave an interview today and said to think of this and future seasons as looser adaptations. They are going to move stuff around rather than stick to book 2- season 2 etc.

That is easy to believe. I was perturbed watching last Sunday's episode. I'm still enjoying GoT on the whole, but at this rate it's going to get demoted to program I kinda sorta like that isn't worth going out of my way to watch.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
That is easy to believe. I was perturbed watching last Sunday's episode. I'm still enjoying GoT on the whole, but at this rate it's going to get demoted to program I kinda sorta like that isn't worth going out of my way to watch.

I've said it before when talking about the show, but it really feels like the abbreviated Cliff Notes version of the books. They seem to be hitting most of the big points, but even now they're sort of really altering the characterization of alot of certain characters in how they're condensing and merging characters and showing things in black and white which were only hinted at or left ambiguous in the books.

Its an adaptation though. Some of the changes and alterations are a little disappointing. Then again, some of the takes on characters (mostly more minor ones) in the show, I like more than the books (Maester Luwin, Yoren).But I'm enjoying it so far. My bigger concerns will be towards the end of the season and how they handle some of the plotlines there, considering they seemingly haven't cast certain characters that would seemingly be necessary without ending up really changing the narrative.

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 avril 2012 - 07:10 .

[Seagloom]

I would never expect them to do a perfect book conversion. What bothers me are the bevy of character changes. There are enough subtle and not-so-subtle tweaks rippling out in displeasing ways, it is beginning to sour my enjoyment.

That moment with Yoren and Arya was the lowest note. They appropriated a part of Arya's character and made it Yoren's idea. It makes me wonder if they are trying to humanize her a la Cersei. Honestly, if it was not for Brienne and Theon's scenes, it would have been one of the worst episodes in this series by my estimation.

Some of their changes work. Theon talking back to Balon was a powerful scene. Most of it is starting to fall flat. If it ever reaches a point where what I liked about the books is barely present on the program, I will stop caring.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 avril 2012 - 07:20 .

[sp0ck 06]

Seagloom wrote...

I would never expect them to do a perfect book conversion. What bothers me are the bevy of character changes. There are enough subtle and not-so-subtle tweaks rippling out in displeasing ways, it is beginning to sour my enjoyment.

That moment with Yoren and Arya was the lowest note. They appropriated a part of Arya's character and made it Yoren's idea. It makes me wonder if they are trying to humanize her a la Cersei. Honestly, if it was not for Brienne and Theon's scenes, it would have been one of the worst episodes in this series by my estimation.

Some of their changes work. Theon talking back to Balon was a powerful scene. Most of it is starting to fall flat. If it ever reaches a point where what I liked about the books is barely present on the program, I will stop caring.

I sort of disagree.  I thought the stuff with Arya and Yoren was very well done.  And I love what they're doing with Theon...his actions in the books never made sense to me.  I like how they're bringing out some deep seated issues with him and it helps explain the atrocities he's about to commit.

Honestly, while I loved..LOVED...books 1-3, 4 and 5 were pretty bad.  I almost think the show can do a better job telling the core story (of course some things are going to be lost in translation) and it's a good oppurtunity to cut a lot of dead weight (like the ENTIRE Dorne storyline).  Book 4 especially was a huge letdown and I fear Martin is falling into the same trap Robert Jordan did around book 8 of Wheel of Time.  I can see how the next book COULD be great, but 4 and 5 (if they get that far into the TV series) should honestly be combined into 1 season and cut everything that isn't essential to the main plots.

[LTD]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

  I can see how the next book COULD be great, but 4 and 5 (if they get that far into the TV series) should honestly be combined into 1 season  a screen that has text  "  few years later..." in large friendly comic sans letters  and cut everything that isn't essential to the main plots.

Fixed!

Modifié par LTD, 20 avril 2012 - 07:44 .

[Seagloom]

Theon's actions still do not make any sense. If anything, they make less sense in GoT than ACoK. Theon is choosing a father he recognizes does not value him greatly over a man who ostensibly treated him like a blood brother. I'm supposed to seriously believe he chooses Balon after an emotional outburst like that? Why? Because of Yara's throwaway comment afterward? It was hard enough to believe in the books; where that scene was nonexistent. I did enjoy those scenes, but it had nothing to do with logic.

The scene with Arya and Yoren was well acted, no doubt. Where it falls flat is when I think about Arya later in the story. Yoren's little tale will not completely change my perception of her character; but it does chip nicks into it. Theon's stuff did not fundamentally alter my perception of the characters involved in any fashion, and was amazingly acted to boot.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[Addai]

Seagloom wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Cersei fans are a weird bunch.

We like Cersei because we are weird? Or are we weird for liking Cersei? Oddly, I have come to like her more as time passes. She is not the cleverest, most relatable, or altogether likeable. There are craftier, stronger, more entertaining characters in the story by far.

Yet, I find Cersei's perspective interesting--especially in contrast to other women in ASoIaF that work the system to achieve their ends, such as Catelyn.

I find Arya, Dany, Brienne, Asha, ect more compelling overall; but they are characters that to some extent are othered in their society because of their unwillingness to follow social conventions. A character like Cersei shows us another side to GRRM's world through her eyes; and does so from a place of malevolence someone like say, Sansa, would not.

I should have said Cersei apologists.    Some people do not want to recognize her as a malevolent character, so they dislike those aspects of her backstory that make her look bad (being vague so as not to spoil).  Now some people are complaining that Lena Headey is not playing her as ruthless enough.

Re Yoren and Arya:  I wasn't bothered by this addition.  It was a conversation that could have happened along the road that was never mentioned.  I don't think there's any deviation from Arya's character.  They already showed her stabbing a table with her dagger after the direwolf incident... her, shall we say, overdeveloped sense of justice is already on display there.  Meanwhile the scene was a touching addition to Yoren's role in being the one who tried to shield her from the worst of what happened, and it made us care more that he died defending the kids.

Re Theon:  Again I'm not bothered by his development so far.  Loyalty runs deep in a culture like this, and even though Robb respects him, the other Northerners don't.  He's halfway between, and if he made himself more of an orphan he'd just be a lord without lands, whereas if he can prove himself to Balon then when the old pissant dies, he'll be the heir to Pyke.

[Seagloom]

Ah, I see. In that case I share nothing in common with those folks. I can understand the idea of mitigating circumstances, but c'mon... Cersei is clearly not misunderstood. XD

That is true. I liked Yoren more here than in the books where his nobler aspects were understated. The reason I find this harder to accept is I saw Arya's "praying" as the first sign of her eroding morality. I suppose events later this season will highlight adequately, but the names thing was so distinctly Arya. Having Yoren give it to her diminishes it for me,

On Theon, I am not bothered per say. While I do think his outburst underscores how puzzling I found his choice, I felt about the same reading ACoK. I do not feel his characterization is changed any either. If anything, it made him ever so slightly more likeable that he least stood up for himself; and was shown as being conflicted in his loyalties. Whereas in the book it seemed like Theon meekly bent to Balon's will after mild protestation.

[twincast]

Here there be some largely veiled spoilers.

Seagloom wrote...

Ah, I see. In that case I share nothing in common with those folks. I can understand the idea of mitigating circumstances, but c'mon... Cersei is clearly not misunderstood. XD

They grate me. For o so many reasons.

Seagloom wrote...

That is true. I liked Yoren more here than in the books where his nobler aspects were understated. The reason I find this harder to accept is I saw Arya's "praying" as the first sign of her eroding morality. I suppose events later this season will highlight adequately, but the names thing was so distinctly Arya. Having Yoren give it to her diminishes it for me,

I see your point, but I think this is one of the changes actually necessitated by the change of medium. Without POV her nightly prayer would potentially come too far out of left field. Frankly I'm more interested in (read: worried) how them apparently having Tywin take Roose's spot in her story ends up working or not working.

Seagloom wrote...

On Theon, I am not bothered per say. While I do think his outburst underscores how puzzling I found his choice, I felt about the same reading ACoK. I do not feel his characterization is changed any either. If anything, it made him ever so slightly more likeable that he least stood up for himself; and was shown as being conflicted in his loyalties. Whereas in the book it seemed like Theon meekly bent to Balon's will after mild protestation.

That he didn't have an outburst in the books didn't make him any less conflicted internally. I always read him as such.
Really, what's not to understand? Choice A is abandoning his birthright to side with lords who never trusted him and have made clear that they likely never will, no matter what he does. Choice B is bowing to his cold father's deluded iron will and the reasonable hope that proving his strength will earn him the respect of his family and people. Seems clear cut so far.
Only problem is him betraying the people he grew up among and who largely treated him well when chosing B, which complicates matters. Frankly, I see him chosing whichever faction he is at when being faced with having to make that decision. Sadly for him, the people of Winterfell and maybe even a certain group of house guests, Robb was dumb enough to send him as an envoy and so he was on Pyke.
But he never really stopped being conflicted, his bad conscience getting harder to push back down with every further step he took. He got himself ever farther into a corner he was increasingly aware of, but too weak to get out of again. Until it was too late.

Modifié par twincast, 23 avril 2012 - 12:27 .

[chunkyman]

I'm pretty excited about the upcoming episode. What is everyones favorite plot line? I'm liking the Arya/Gendry stuff the most so far.

Modifié par chunkyman, 22 avril 2012 - 04:16 .

[LPPrince]

I got my mom so into GoT, she's getting HBO today.

Hah.

[LPPrince]

greengoron89 wrote...

Curse you, HBO! Why must I pay my way through crooked cable companies and garbage channels that I never watch just to watch your programs?!

Got rid of cable about a year ago - I'll be missing this season, and all future seasons until they either come out on DVD, or until HBO finally offers their channel as a standalone service.

You can find all the Season 1 episodes for free online, or buy the DVDs for it.

[Brockololly]

Looking forward to the episode tonight. Should be interesting to see Harrenhal, Roose Bolton and how they handle a certain... something.

And I was reading rumors there is some especially nasty scene with Joffrey and some ****s? I don't recall anything like that from the books, but I think its been established at this point how nasty Joffrey is. Not sure why they need to go beyond the stuff he does in the books...

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[Seagloom]

It should be fun to see a certain scene under a particular castle with two specific characters, yep. This will probably be one of the hardest episodes for me to watch. It doesn't matter if it's 100% faithful to the book. I wasn't crazy about any of the events at this stage in the tale.

Are they skipping ahead to Roose Bolton already? I would've expected to see more of Tywin until later in the season.

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...

It should be fun to see a certain scene under a particular castle with two specific characters, yep. This will probably be one of the hardest episodes for me to watch. It doesn't matter if it's 100% faithful to the book. I wasn't crazy about any of the events at this stage in the tale.

I'm pretty sure they're condensing said scene involving two specific characters. I'll be curious to see how it works in the show since I really liked how the books kept things kind of "WTF!?" ...I won't say anymore until its over to not spoil anyone.

Seagloom wrote...
Are they skipping ahead to Roose Bolton already? I would've expected to see more of Tywin until later in the season.

I think they're just going to show Roose campaigning with Robb. So, not at Harrenhal- I think they're having Gregor at Harrenhal still.

[TJPags]

ummmmmmm . . . . . The episode was good.

However . . . . well, departures concern me.

That is all.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I was not expecting that whole Sun God priestess = "WTF kill it with fire!" thing. Also, more proof that you can't trust redheads.

And Joffrey needs to die an even worse death.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 23 avril 2012 - 02:13 .

[AxisEvolve]

Decent episode, although I enjoyed last week's the best so far.

I thought the Tyrion/Lancel scene was well done... Accurate to how I imagined it in the book. 'Twas very amusing... As for Daenerys? Her POVs have been boring me all season, although they aren't all that more interesting to me in written form. It still feels a bit more unimpressionable. I took a bathroom break during the Qarth bit... seemed appropriate.

Arya/Gendry scenes? No complaints, probably my favorite to watch.

It seemed like they were trying to "spell out" the Cat/Kingslayer thing a lot more. I don't believe Littefinger ever went to Storm's end or had a scene with Cat in the book. I'm not too bothered by this change. Some added clarification to a certain character's motivations for a certain upcoming act isn't such a bad thing.

Also, no Sansa boobage? Makes sense I guess she's underage. I didn't really expect to see anything. You just know the guys behind the show were like, "damnit, we had to CUT an already written nude scene? Usually we spend hours trying to write new ones."

I thought Joffrey was going to kill the ****. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point. They seem to be trying to paint a lot of characters as "good or evil" in that way.

Also, WTF is going on with the Robb and Jeyne arc? At least I think that was Jeyne... I have no idea anymore. I'm totally lost.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 23 avril 2012 - 02:33 .

[TJPags]

I'm enjoying the Arya/Gendry scenes more in the series than in the books, at this point, anyway. I really think the actress playing Arya is excellent. Gendry's not bad, either.

The scene with Joffrey and the girls? I saw no need for that at all.

I have a problem with this series going over the top in terms of character development . . . can they hit us over the head with "Joffrey is a little turd" any harder? Just more in a line of such things.

*edit - loved the Melisandre/Davos scene, along with the Davos/Stannis scene . . . out of place as it was . . . .

Modifié par TJPags, 23 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[Addai]

I liked this episode a lot. It's probably my favorite of the season so far. Tyrion's scenes obviously, but also loved Harrenhal and the ending scene exceeded my imagination. Pretty awesome. Poor Davos...