179 réponses à ce sujet

[Seena]

aduellist wrote...

Regarding the validity of any polling done here, Metacritic or elsewhere, I'd like to point out something I learned in retail management decades ago.

"A happy customer tells a friend. An unhappy customer tells ten friends."

These polls will always skew toward the negative proposition because people who partake are far more likely to be dissatisfied.

Edit:  Having just viewed the poll question, it's seriously flawed.  The participant is presented with a mild positive, "like", and a strong negative, "hate".  Given that there are may levels of satisfation/dissatisfaction between "absolutely love" and "absolutely despise", I don't see how the presenter expects to derive any meaningful conclusion from the data.  A classic "push poll".

Exactly. Both the poll itself and the sample selection are biased.

[daemon1129]

Regardless on how bias or unprofessional the polls are, it is undeniable that DA:O is the better game, and there are more people bashing DA2 than when DA:O was released.

[GammaRayJim]

Seena wrote...

aduellist wrote...

Regarding the validity of any polling done here, Metacritic or elsewhere, I'd like to point out something I learned in retail management decades ago.

"A happy customer tells a friend. An unhappy customer tells ten friends."

These polls will always skew toward the negative proposition because people who partake are far more likely to be dissatisfied.

Edit:  Having just viewed the poll question, it's seriously flawed.  The participant is presented with a mild positive, "like", and a strong negative, "hate".  Given that there are may levels of satisfation/dissatisfaction between "absolutely love" and "absolutely despise", I don't see how the presenter expects to derive any meaningful conclusion from the data.  A classic "push poll".

Exactly. Both the poll itself and the sample selection are biased.

Sure he could have left that out of the intial question but his result are 50/50. In which direction is the bias yea or nay when you have an almost 50/50 results? I guess I am missing something here. So if he left that out he would have gotten results that were overwhelming in one direction or the other...really. C'mon where is the bias? Or is it that you don't like the results and so you must find a flaw in how the data is collected.

[aduellist]

daemon1129 wrote...

Regardless on how bias or unprofessional the polls are, it is undeniable that DA:O is the better game, and there are more people bashing DA2 than when DA:O was released.

Whether or not DA:O is "undeniably the better game" is a separate question from the validity of the polling data solely regarding DA2.  The question put forth in the poll is not "Is DA:O a better game than DA2?" but rather "Do you like or hate DA2?".  Inserting a parenthetical implied comparison only further invalidates the poll results.

Can you point me to same type polling data (binary question set) from the first couple of months after DA:O was released?  Certainly the current DA:O poll is invalid for comparison, since it has had quite some time to mature (patches, DLC, mods, etc.), along with ample time to acquire a certain "rosy hue".  I certainly remember some "buggy/broken/unfinished/unplayable" raging on the forums shortly after DA:O was released.

Please note that I am not stating a preference one way or the other, only questioning what (if any) meaningful conclusions can be extracted from the polling data.

[GammaRayJim]

aduellist wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

Regardless on how bias or unprofessional the polls are, it is undeniable that DA:O is the better game, and there are more people bashing DA2 than when DA:O was released.

Whether or not DA:O is "undeniably the better game" is a separate question from the validity of the polling data solely regarding DA2.  The question put forth in the poll is not "Is DA:O a better game than DA2?" but rather "Do you like or hate DA2?".  Inserting a parenthetical implied comparison only further invalidates the poll results.

Can you point me to same type polling data (binary question set) from the first couple of months after DA:O was released?  Certainly the current DA:O poll is invalid for comparison, since it has had quite some time to mature (patches, DLC, mods, etc.), along with ample time to acquire a certain "rosy hue".  I certainly remember some "buggy/broken/unfinished/unplayable" raging on the forums shortly after DA:O was released.

Please note that I am not stating a preference one way or the other, only questioning what (if any) meaningful conclusions can be extracted from the polling data.

I don't think the guy ever claimed to be a polling expert, it seems he was trying to see who liked/preferred what. Is it meaningful maybe only to those who want to validate or justify a position, the same as any other poll does. For some reason his conclusions bothers you. So you attack the poll as being skewed and maybe it is but again I have to wonder  he came up with a 50/50 split on DA2. Are you looking for an overwhelming result one way or the other because that's how you think it should be?

[aduellist]

GammaRayJim wrote...

I don't think the guy ever claimed to be a polling expert, it seems he was trying to see who liked/preferred what. Is it meaningful maybe only to those who want to validate or justify a position, the same as any other poll does. For some reason his conclusions bothers you. So you attack the poll as being skewed and maybe it is but again I have to wonder  he came up with a 50/50 split on DA2. Are you looking for an overwhelming result one way or the other because that's how you think it should be?

I certainly did not "attack" the poll, only pointed out that it was meaningless.  The conclusions reached do not bother me, because they are likewise meaningless.  I am not "looking for an overwhelming result one way or the other because that's
how (I) think it should be", only pointing out that the poll itself is meaningless in the context that the OP presented it, which is that people "like" DA:O more than DA2.  The 50/50 split does not strike me as being unreasonable, if viewed in the proper context.  The issue is that people seem to be inferring some sort of signifigance to the results that are unsupported and cannot be supported by the data.  Simple enough?

Modifié par aduellist, 14 avril 2011 - 11:21 .

[Seena]

GammaRayJim wrote...

I don't think the guy ever claimed to be a polling expert, it seems he was trying to see who liked/preferred what. Is it meaningful maybe only to those who want to validate or justify a position, the same as any other poll does. For some reason his conclusions bothers you. So you attack the poll as being skewed and maybe it is but again I have to wonder  he came up with a 50/50 split on DA2. Are you looking for an overwhelming result one way or the other because that's how you think it should be?

You can't validate a position - with invalid data.

[Seena]

Sorry double post

Modifié par Seena, 15 avril 2011 - 12:01 .

[GammaRayJim]

That's just what I said, people poll to find justification or validation for their positions or beliefs. When you stated that these polls were skewed towards the negative and then used the way he presented his poll as proof of this I only challenge how a 50/50 poll results offers a skewed or negative interpretation. That he extrapolates that those who disliked DA:O are now the one that like DA2 may be a stretch. He states up front that this is not very scientific, for something you find meaningless you sure put a lot of effort into disproving his attempt. Please someone send Gallup an email to let them know there efforts are meaningless and invalid because all polls a skewed.

[Sharkey1337]

Thought I'd just drop in and check the polls. Updated OP with updated results!

[oldmansavage]

Excellent work.

[Cody211282]

Rather interesting results, to bad nothing will change because of it(though I hope it does).

[In Exile]

That's not very different than what Bioware themselves have said: DA2 was very polarizing, some people were big fans, some really hated it, lots who liked DA:O didn't like it, and it drew in some new fans.

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

That's not very different than what Bioware themselves have said: DA2 was very polarizing, some people were big fans, some really hated it, lots who liked DA:O didn't like it, and it drew in some new fans.

I am just curious did the new fans make up for the lost ones (which would make them break even) and give them more than the ones they lost on top of it. That is what I am curious about.

[TEWR]

necrophiliacs! The lot of you!

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

necrophiliacs! The lot of you!

Grab yourself a cold one?

ZOMBIE thread!!!

[TEWR]

erynnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

necrophiliacs! The lot of you!

Grab yourself a cold one?

ZOMBIE thread!!!

Sure why not? Give me a double.

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erynnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

necrophiliacs! The lot of you!

Grab yourself a cold one?

ZOMBIE thread!!!

Sure why not? Give me a double.

:lol:

[Serpieri Nei]

Posting a picture - entitles me to three beers 

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .

[Deganis76]

neppakyo wrote...

Think this is more accurate then bioware using meta-data from the games, hope bioware peeps have a gander at this.

The only reasonably accurate method to poll would be to perform a random sampling of every DA2 owner.  The polls that OP posted, while cool, are limited to Bioware social network users only:  limit the sampling pool and skew the data.  Think of it in terms of an election:  sampling the Bioware social network/forums is like sampling a partisan primary electorate:  generally people more passionate about their political (in this case gaming) beliefs.  Now switch to a general election when you have all the mainstream voters (in this sense, more casual gamers) and the results are different.

[Phaelducan]

Not to mention the large amount of BSN users who registered after March of this year for the sole purpose of coming here to express their dislike for the game.

[Addai]

aduellist wrote...

Regarding the validity of any polling done here, Metacritic or elsewhere, I'd like to point out something I learned in retail management decades ago.

"A happy customer tells a friend. An unhappy customer tells ten friends."

I don't believe that's the case.  I only pass around negatives on something if I'm very, very ticked off about it.  DA2 probably qualifies for very ticked off for some fans, however.  My word of mouth to other gamer friends was more along the lines of "eh, get it if you can find it on sale."

Whereas if I like something, I tout it to friends I think would also like it, and I'm also affected by positive praise from other people.  Just as an example, on Twitter I saw some people praising Evernote, and I went and got an Evernote account just from their positive word of mouth.  Same with my recent purchase of a Nook.  We tend to watch TV shows and movies that our friends say they liked.  And so on.

Edit:  Having just viewed the poll question, it's seriously flawed.  The participant is presented with a mild positive, "like", and a strong negative, "hate".  Given that there are may levels of satisfation/dissatisfaction between "absolutely love" and "absolutely despise", I don't see how the presenter expects to derive any meaningful conclusion from the data.  A classic "push poll".

Well there is value in making people take the side that best represents them.  If you're truly split, you don't vote at all- at least I wouldn't.  I am mostly positive about Origins and mostly negative about DA2, so I voted accordingly.

Modifié par Addai67, 08 juillet 2011 - 03:55 .

[Phaelducan]

@ Addai67

You'd think so, but that's not the case. "Like" and "Hate" are commonly used in biased polling for that very reason.

[Realmzmaster]

The limitation in the polls have to do with coverage. The results cannot be extrapolated to the general DA2 population. The results may or may not represent the opinion of forum mates.
There can be other inherent problems with the poll. The wording of the questions poses a problem. In the first question he ask do you like or hate DA2. The question should ask do you love or hate DA2 since the opposite of hate is love and not like. Or there should be ratings from love to hate. (Example: love, like, neutral, dislike, hate).

This is why some of the forum mates consider the poll meaningless. It cannot be used beyond the forum population.

The metadata that Bioware collects is a little better in that regard, but not perfect. The reason is that many of the buying DA2 public will not turn the data collecting off. Probably because most do not care one way or the other. This sample will be better because it surveys the entire DA2 buying population.
The polls are interesting, but I would not try to derive to much from them outside of how they may reflect the opinion of forum mates.

[Sharkey1337]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The limitation in the polls have to do with coverage. The results cannot be extrapolated to the general DA2 population. The results may or may not represent the opinion of forum mates.
There can be other inherent problems with the poll. The wording of the questions poses a problem. In the first question he ask do you like or hate DA2. The question should ask do you love or hate DA2 since the opposite of hate is love and not like. Or there should be ratings from love to hate. (Example: love, like, neutral, dislike, hate).

This is why some of the forum mates consider the poll meaningless. It cannot be used beyond the forum population.

The metadata that Bioware collects is a little better in that regard, but not perfect. The reason is that many of the buying DA2 public will not turn the data collecting off. Probably because most do not care one way or the other. This sample will be better because it surveys the entire DA2 buying population.
The polls are interesting, but I would not try to derive to much from them outside of how they may reflect the opinion of forum mates.

Exactly, these polls only reflect opinions on this very forum, not the entire gaming populace that has played the game. I would LOVE to have the resources to poll that populace, but I can only make do with what we have here.

And looking back, I do agree that I probably should've used "liked" and "disliked" or "loved" and "hated", not the "liked" and "hated". Consider it some of my own personal bias that slinked in, apologies.

Modifié par Sharkey1337, 08 juillet 2011 - 09:46 .